Bitcoins (and other crypto currencies)

[Addicted]

It needs amazon to adopt it. That would probably send the price up ten fold and it would make sense for them to compete with eBay/paypal but I guess as the moment it's not stable enough.

Biggest problem it has IMHO is the anonymous nature of transactions makin it hard to prove you have paid but if amazon acted as a middle man in their sales then they would create that traceability.

Couple years off at least though I suspect.

There are payment processors like PayPal in the works, so it will definitely be interesting.

Proving you have paid is easy - generating addresses is free and easy - you generate an address per transaction, if it gains the desired coins, they've paid

It works the same on most places, from exchanges to the existing sites that accept BTC so far.

 

[Chip-mk1]

There are payment processors like PayPal in the works, so it will definitely be interesting.

Proving you have paid is easy - generating addresses is free and easy - you generate an address per transaction, if it gains the desired coins, they've paid

It works the same on most places, from exchanges to the existing sites that accept BTC so far.

That only works if there is some 3rd party who knows the address though.

Say I sell you a set of turinis tomorrow for half a bitcoin on here, I give you an address, you pay to the address, how do you then prove that address was me and that I received the money etc?

Thats what I mean, if you had the address associated with your amazon account it could be checked in the blockchain, but even then if there was a problem where do you go for a refund?

Its a long way off the buyer security of paypal at the moment.

 

[Addicted]

That only works if there is some 3rd party who knows the address though.

Say I sell you a set of turinis tomorrow for half a bitcoin on here, I give you an address, you pay to the address, how do you then prove that address was me and that I received the money etc?

Thats what I mean, if you had the address associated with your amazon account it could be checked in the blockchain, but even then if there was a problem where do you go for a refund?

Its a long way off the buyer security of paypal at the moment.

Uh, well you provide the address, so you'd know if it was your address or not?

Not quite sure I know what you mean!

Proof is on the blockchain, easy to find info about a transaction or balance.


Agreed a while off, the main scare for companies doing it is that there is no comeback if they want a refund etc, you can't just take the money from an address (unless you own the address), so chargebacks are impossible and that's why it's slow to happen.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Uh, well you provide the address, so you'd know if it was your address or not?

Not quite sure I know what you mean!

Proof is on the blockchain, easy to find info about a transaction or balance.

I send you an address.

You send me some bitcoins.

I just ignore you after that and dont post you your wheels, how do you prove you have paid me and who to?

If it was paypal it would just be a dispute and I'd have to prove I sent you the wheels, with this though, there is nothing linking that address to me, I can create as many as I want as often as I want with no identification at all.

Agreed a while off, the main scare for companies doing it is that there is no comeback if they want a refund etc, you can't just take the money from an address (unless you own the address), so chargebacks are impossible and that's why it's slow to happen.

Yeah, the whole thing is only really as safe as sending cash at the moment.

But if someone like Amazon stepped into the middle to be a 3rd party who holds the coins until the sale has completed then both buyer and seller could trust them, and hence not have these worries.

 

[Addicted]

I send you an address.

You send me some bitcoins.

I just ignore you after that and dont post you your wheels, how do you prove you have paid me and who to?

If it was paypal it would just be a dispute and I'd have to prove I sent you the wheels, with this though, there is nothing linking that address to me, I can create as many as I want as often as I want with no identification at all.

Yeah, the whole thing is only really as safe as sending cash at the moment.

But if someone like Amazon stepped into the middle to be a 3rd party who holds the coins until the sale has completed then both buyer and seller could trust them, and hence not have these worries.

Didn't realise that was what you meant in the first instance, assumed you meant I sent and you cant figure out if received.

Yeah in that case its gone forever - but just look at SilkRoad (when it existed), they worked on reputation and that worked well for pretty much most of the transactions.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Didn't realise that was what you meant in the first instance, assumed you meant I sent and you cant figure out if received.

Yeah in that case its gone forever - but just look at SilkRoad (when it existed), they worked on reputation and that worked well for pretty much most of the transactions.

Trouble is people end up creating accounts and running up themselves a good reputation with a load of 99p sales, then setup a too good to be true deal for 50 items at 200 quid each that should normally be 500 quid, and hey presto 10K and then clear off.

Then people will make out like its a flaw in the currency when it happens!

Even though the same could be true with cash or bank transfer etc.


Bit like Mark and James with their group buy on hubs where they have collected over 10 grand, we are all trusting them that they will send out the stuff, but they might just bend us all over instead!

 

[Addicted]

True, but you can do that with any other method as well, even on PayPal - there may be a chargeback from all the affected users, but that person who ran off will still have the money.

I get what you're saying, all depends how it's handled imo.

 

[helendouglas]

Yes, it's true that Bitcoins and other crypto currencies might replace PayPal in the future. has no chargeback, no hidden fees and accepting them is free according to BitcoinDaily; plus there are so many perks and online services that Bitcoins can bring.​

 

[Chip-mk1]

True, but you can do that with any other method as well, even on PayPal - there may be a chargeback from all the affected users, but that person who ran off will still have the money.

I get what you're saying, all depends how it's handled imo.

If you pay your paypal by credit card, even if the person legs it with the money, its only paypal that loses out not you.

Paypal + credit card, is probably the safest way possible to pay for something, its amazing the amount of rights you have in that circumstance!

BUT (and its a big one!) you really do pay for the privilege, where as with bitcoins the fees are tiny (can in theory be zero currently I believe)

 

[Addicted]

If you pay your paypal by credit card, even if the person legs it with the money, its only paypal that loses out not you.

Paypal + credit card, is probably the safest way possible to pay for something, its amazing the amount of rights you have in that circumstance!

BUT (and its a big one!) you really do pay for the privilege, where as with bitcoins the fees are tiny (can in theory be zero currently I believe)

Haha yeah, PayPal and CreditCard is a funny one

I'd imagine you'll get companies who will charge say 1% as their "cut", and provide a similar level of protection.

 

[Wasswole]

I never understood the argument about tiny fees to send money, Bitcoin is too volitile! I can send you £400 of bitcoin today tomorrow it'll be worth £340. Your profit margin gone.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I never understood the argument about tiny fees to send money, Bitcoin is too volitile! I can send you £400 of bitcoin today tomorrow it'll be worth £340. Your profit margin gone.

Its volitile in exchange rate currently, but if you are using it not as a way to send pounds but as an ACTUAL currency which is what its intended for ultimately than that wouldnt be an issue, also over time as it gains support it will naturally become less volitile anyway, at the moment every still knows that it could end up worthless or end up worth a fortune, so depending on peoples mood it swings all over the place.

Also the total "market capitalisation" is currently only about 800 dollars * 10 million coins = 8 billion dollars, thats naff all in the grand scheme of things, so someone buying a few million dollars worth has quite a marked effect on value, especially given the number of people committed to "hold" which means that the number of traded coins is only a tiny subset of that and hence a few million dollars worth is a huge percentage.

If its capitalisation reaches into the hundreds of billions or even trillions which is what is ultimately needed if its a proper currency then the price will have a lot more inertia and not be moved by just a few million dollars of trades anymore.



And finally of course, as its currently NOT used as money, just as a speculative vehicle for investment, thats why when it moves slightly it triggers so many other people to buy and sell it and hence move the price even more.



So what its doing now, is not indicative of what it will do in the future if adopted.

 

[Addicted]

Summed it up nicely!

By the way, has anyone been following Dogecoin? It's scarily gaining traction, there's a load of 16-17 year olds (who haven't even heard of Bitcoin) mining this, and as bad as it is - it could have some* traction behind it!

* results may vary.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I like this bit about dogecoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?P...3ch7i1gue0&topic=361813.msg3873031#msg3873031

 

[Addicted]

I like this bit about dogecoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?P...3ch7i1gue0&topic=361813.msg3873031#msg3873031

I've been speaking to the developer today, it's intention was just a joke with him and his wife, but now that is has a following he's focusing on improving it (there's a few dumb bugs).

24 hours worth of mining a few days ago has netted me half a BTC (if I sell the rest I have near enough 2 BTC - but im holding, the half BTC was just my "insurance" if it collapses), so for me it's 100% worth it

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've been speaking to the developer today, it's intention was just a joke with him and his wife, but now that is has a following he's focusing on improving it (there's a few dumb bugs).

24 hours worth of mining a few days ago has netted me half a BTC (if I sell the rest I have near enough 2 BTC - but im holding, the half BTC was just my "insurance" if it collapses), so for me it's 100% worth it

I'd get it into BTC as soon as you can and get out again before the novelty wears off!

 

[Addicted]

I'd get it into BTC as soon as you can and get out again before the novelty wears off!

Once it hits a proper exchange I plan to let go

 

[iamdaryl]

if you want to do some quick dogecoin mining before the difficulty goes up there is a post on the bitcoin forums on how to mine on a digital ocean virtual box https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375182.0&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

In 15minutes mining I've got 250 of these so far totally worthless dogecoins

 

[iamdaryl]

Damn BTC dropped like a stone last night, went to sleep with it at £454 a coin, now dropped to around the £370 mark

 

[Jay.S]

http://news.sky.com/story/1184180/bitcoin-value-slumps-amid-china-restrictions

I'm glad i didnt buy in a few days ago. still trying to get my head around it.

I think for the time being all sit and watch how its goes and see where BTC is in the new year.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Damn BTC dropped like a stone last night, went to sleep with it at £454 a coin, now dropped to around the £370 mark

Interesting, Must admit Ive not noticed it much under 600 which is where it is now but I dont look constantly.

TBH such fluctuations at the moment are all irrelevant to its long term value though, its literally just people's guesses as to where it will end up going up and down with each announcement but these are all relatively small things in the grand scheme, it will take something big one way or the other to cement its future.

 

[iamdaryl]

Interesting, Must admit Ive not noticed it much under 600 which is where it is now but I dont look constantly.

TBH such fluctuations at the moment are all irrelevant to its long term value though, its literally just people's guesses as to where it will end up going up and down with each announcement but these are all relatively small things in the grand scheme, it will take something big one way or the other to cement its future.

I've been watching it quite a bit today, the lowest it dropped to was around £310, mainly due the fact that China has stopped all trading and stopped BTC China from trading aswell.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I've been watching it quite a bit today, the lowest it dropped to was around £310, mainly due the fact that China has stopped all trading and stopped BTC China from trading aswell.

Well China was a massive part of why the price went up, so it certainly makes sense.

Must confess been too busy to keep abreast of the news though, will have to have a read up, China was a big part of the prices going up so could easily result in it going down too.

 

[Jay.S]

I've bit the bullet and bought some BTC. I've exchanged it all for QRK though as its super cheap at the minute so hopefully it will raise.

LTC is a good price at the minute aswell.

 

[iamdaryl]

I've been mining dogecoin because its purely comical lol

 

[Addicted]

I've been mining dogecoin because its purely comical lol

Me too, how many do you have?

I've got mine sat in doge-dice.com at the moment, making some interest


China haven't stopped trading.

BTCChina no longer allow FIAT deposits (they still allow withdrawals), so people panicked like f**k and the price went down, but they haven't stopped trading. OKCoin is also still around, and currently the biggest exchange in the world, so it's not looking too bad imo.

 

[iamdaryl]

I've only got around 1,000 Dogecoins I'm mining at http://miner.coinedup.com/doge/ they aren't to bad, just wish I had something else to mine with as an iMac isn't to great so stopped using it. It has got harder to mine it since yesterday though, as I mined around 200 in 10minutes lol now its not quite as good.

 

[McGherkin]

Lol at naming a currency after a (pretty s**t) meme.

 

[Jay.S]

Anyone come across the lottery ticket coins.lol.

One LTC will get you 1.5million of them imagine if they ever went £1 each or even 50p. Tempted to buy in but I think that's just a pisstake coin.

 

[iamdaryl]

So dogecoin has just been added to Cryptsy which is a pretty good sign, can now trade with them. Hopefully give them a nice rise in value.

 

[Gally]

Now let me get this straight. To "earn" a bitcoin you need to have a properly amazing computer that will "mine" well? The person ie you and me do nothing?

I find it staggering that something someone thought up in their bedroom could become currency in this day and age.

 

[kpowell911]

Now let me get this straight. To "earn" a bitcoin you need to have a properly amazing computer that will "mine" well? The person ie you and me do nothing?

I find it staggering that something someone thought up in their bedroom could become currency in this day and age.

Technically, all currency is just pieces of metal mined out the ground.

I guess its a Modern, digital take on digging in the fields lol.

 

[Gally]

That didn't actually answer any of my questions.

 

[kpowell911]

That didn't actually answer any of my questions.

It wasn't an attempt at answering your question, purely because Im not clever enough to understand it fully myself lol!

Im struggling to get me head around where the "coin" comes from and why it is given a value?

 

[Jay.S]

You should google/Wikipedia/Chipedia it.

If you want to make(Mine) Bitcoins then you need decent pieces of equipment and a good IT head on your shoulders.

For people like me you can just the buy Bitcoins. Then if you like exchange them for other crypto currency's or wait for the price to go up and sell. Abit like shares if you like, it is difficult to get your head around took me a while and I'm still 100% on it.

As for the guy that made them I think he seen a gap in the market which I certainly think Bitcoins or other crypto currency could fill.

 

[Addicted]

All currency has no intrinsic value apart from what we associate with it. It's just that FIAT has a good history, and so works because people know no different

If £ was worth f**k all tomorrow what would you have? Some useless paper and some metal useful for chucking at the chavs.

 

[McGherkin]

If £ was worth f**k all tomorrow what would you have? Some useless paper and some metal useful for chucking at the chavs.

The value of, say, a pound coin comes from the metal required to make it. It's less relevant these days with inflation etc but there is still an intrinsic value in the coinage at least.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The value of, say, a pound coin comes from the metal required to make it. It's less relevant these days with inflation etc but there is still an intrinsic value in the coinage at least.

Wrong, not anymore mate. Used to be the case but these days copper coins aren't even copper and a pound coin was never gold, they are just worthless tokens. They are only worth something cause we all think they are. Same as bitcoin.

 

[Dink]

it's a piece of piss to mine BTC or any other coin tbh (i setup my laptop earlier to mine quarks in about 5 mins)

you just need the the right equipment and at the moment for BTC it's asic's and they are not cheap or that easy to get hold of currently.

the mining is just not worth trying to get your head round what it's actually doing or how it's doing it lol

 

[Gally]

I don't want to get my head around mining as such. Just how you earned BTC, sadly it seems you just need a computer and some decent spec. What stops big companies with super computers mining?

Anyway I won't worry about it.