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Breaking cover......*AG content from page 45*



massiveCoRbyn

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Just read through this whole thing, very interesting. I'm a really rally buff, so this engine is right up my street. Seen a couple of R3 Clios out on events, they sound fantastic and seem to go really well. Was really hoping to see what the engine had done, but looks like I will have to remain in suspense!

I wish I could get into wiring, as my Escort needs a new loom, but it just confuses me!

Don't suppose you fancy a couple of gearbox jobs?!
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
massivewangers said:
Just read through this whole thing, very interesting. I'm a really rally buff, so this engine is right up my street. Seen a couple of R3 Clios out on events, they sound fantastic and seem to go really well. Was really hoping to see what the engine had done, but looks like I will have to remain in suspense!

I wish I could get into wiring, as my Escort needs a new loom, but it just confuses me!

Don't suppose you fancy a couple of gearbox jobs?!
Click to expand...
Well thanks for taking the time to read through it all! There's a bit of waffle and b****cks tbf, so we'll done! Lol!
Hoping to get it mapped before the year is out tbh, so not long for you to wait.

Wiring is far easier than people imagine it tbh.

Couple of gearbox jobs?? What on mate?
 
massiveCoRbyn

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
A pleasure. Nice to read about a proper build with some interesting and different things going on, so I can just about forgive a bit of b****cks! Will be really interesting to see what it makes. I've got a MK5 Escort RS2000 rally car and I'd be really interested to build a forged piston engine and run it on the standard manifold to see what it could do. The old Group A ones ran in that trim and claimed 230bhp, would be interesting to see how optimistic that was, so this build is very similar and therefore very interesting.

Well....I have the aforementioned RS2000 which has a Focus MTX75 box. I'm going to buy an MFactory 3rd, 4th and 5th gear for it from the US so would be looking at having those fitted, along with my Quaife diff.

Secondly, the box in my 172 Cup is getting a bit grindy into third gear at times, and I was wondering what the damage would be to give it a refresh. The car might be retired from daily use soon, and just be used for fun, so I have been wondering about the cost of a diff and all these gearing changes you read about, but that might well get expensive by the sound of it.

Just looking at my options for having it done and I'd rather put it the way of someone who is willing to do it for a bit of extra cash, rather than using a company properly and getting a big bill. Budgets are always the problem as we all know. Feel free to drop me a PM anyway, as there's no sense in filling up your thread. No great rush either :)
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
massivewangers said:
A pleasure. Nice to read about a proper build with some interesting and different things going on, so I can just about forgive a bit of b****cks! Will be really interesting to see what it makes. I've got a MK5 Escort RS2000 rally car and I'd be really interested to build a forged piston engine and run it on the standard manifold to see what it could do. The old Group A ones ran in that trim and claimed 230bhp, would be interesting to see how optimistic that was, so this build is very similar and therefore very interesting.

Well....I have the aforementioned RS2000 which has a Focus MTX75 box. I'm going to buy an MFactory 3rd, 4th and 5th gear for it from the US so would be looking at having those fitted, along with my Quaife diff.

Secondly, the box in my 172 Cup is getting a bit grindy into third gear at times, and I was wondering what the damage would be to give it a refresh. The car might be retired from daily use soon, and just be used for fun, so I have been wondering about the cost of a diff and all these gearing changes you read about, but that might well get expensive by the sound of it.

Just looking at my options for having it done and I'd rather put it the way of someone who is willing to do it for a bit of extra cash, rather than using a company properly and getting a big bill. Budgets are always the problem as we all know. Feel free to drop me a PM anyway, as there's no sense in filling up your thread. No great rush either :smile:
Click to expand...
Well I think realistically 230hp is unrealistic! Lol! And that goes for my engine as well tbh! A good mate of mine has staked his hp claim/guesstimate at 22_hp for mine, so we shall see I suppose.
I can find out what went into the mk5 rs2k's to get the claimed hp figure as one of my mates is a particularly well known and respected zetec turbo engine builder. He will have a good idea what went into them.

Regards the gearboxes - I'll drop you a pm mate. Never had an mtx75 box apart tbh, but nothing's ever impossible!
Jc5's are expensive to do a full genuine Renault refresh on as well. Dependant on what's goosed dictates the parts cost! As an example, your looking at 1k in parts for a full refresh, but a service ex box is £900..........Flol!
 
massiveCoRbyn

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
NorthloopCup said:
Well I think realistically 230hp is unrealistic! Lol! And that goes for my engine as well tbh! A good mate of mine has staked his hp claim/guesstimate at 22_hp for mine, so we shall see I suppose.
I can find out what went into the mk5 rs2k's to get the claimed hp figure as one of my mates is a particularly well known and respected zetec turbo engine builder. He will have a good idea what went into them.

Regards the gearboxes - I'll drop you a pm mate. Never had an mtx75 box apart tbh, but nothing's ever impossible!
Jc5's are expensive to do a full genuine Renault refresh on as well. Dependant on what's goosed dictates the parts cost! As an example, your looking at 1k in parts for a full refresh, but a service ex box is £900..........Flol!
Click to expand...

Yes I am certain that you are right there! The Ford head is ok, but they had to keep standard valve sizes, just like the modern R3s do. A friend was running one on throttle bodies with big valves and a lairy exhaust and that was only 240bhp. Motorsport always does attract a few optimistic claims though. It will be interesting to see what yours manages anyway. I'd love to build an engine for my Cup, but that's a whole other job!

I'm not going to be too much help in what's involved in the MTX75 box, but Fords are usually pretty simple. I feared the JC5 might be an expensive job. Ideally I'd like the Megane 5th gear and short FD deal, but it appears to be an expensive business, especially once you add a diff. Appreciate any advice though!
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
massivewangers said:
Yes I am certain that you are right there! The Ford head is ok, but they had to keep standard valve sizes, just like the modern R3s do. A friend was running one on throttle bodies with big valves and a lairy exhaust and that was only 240bhp. Motorsport always does attract a few optimistic claims though. It will be interesting to see what yours manages anyway. I'd love to build an engine for my Cup, but that's a whole other job!

I'm not going to be too much help in what's involved in the MTX75 box, but Fords are usually pretty simple. I feared the JC5 might be an expensive job. Ideally I'd like the Megane 5th gear and short FD deal, but it appears to be an expensive business, especially once you add a diff. Appreciate any advice though!
Click to expand...
The 197 head is actually a pretty good design and the valves are big enough to flow the figures, so we shall see where it gets me!

I'll have a look and see what I can find out for the mtx box.
Jc5 wise, your talking around £100 to do the Megane 5th gear swap, and another £1525 to do the gripper diff/final drive (which I can supply). On top of that you've got whatever is scrap inside the box. I'm using all my good spares to build up @bashracing a decent box as well, so I can't even supply any s/h parts now.
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
As promised a bit of progress! Not done much recently as I've had other things going on in my life that are substantially more important than anything car related.

The loom is now around 98% completed. All that's left to do is crimp the new terminals on to the new wiring, put it in the correct pin position in the ecu plug and job jobbed. I will be making a start of fitting the loom on to the car tomorrow. This means that the inlet manifold can finally be bolted down once and for all!
image.jpeg

After this there's not really much else left. Still needs oil in the engine and box, got to make a support bracket for the carbon airbox and that's about it I think other than getting a base map on the ecu to try and start it??????? Got a big bearing rear disc conversion to fit as well, but that's not stopping the engine from being run.

More to come.
 
bashracing

bashracing

ClioSport Club Member
wiring scares the poo out of me,
sorry for using all you good used gearbox bits, it's I'm just such a tight b*****d,
Oh and when you drain the mt90 oil out of your box could you put it in a milk carton for me, Ta!
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Martin. said:
Are you going to video the first start up? :tongueout:

So close to being a runner!!
Click to expand...
Of course! That's another reason why I've got my YouTube channel! Lol!
bashracing said:
wiring scares the poo out of me,
sorry for using all you good used gearbox bits, it's I'm just such a tight b*****d,
Oh and when you drain the mt90 oil out of your box could you put it in a milk carton for me, Ta!
Click to expand...
Wiring scares everyone mate it seems. Even time served lads that work with me are scared of it! The reality of it is, most of the sensors you have only need 2 wires ~ a + and a - (analogue), then throw a signal wire in to the mix for some sensors (digital). Your switching the - or the + for activation, and invariably never more than 5v activation from the ecu, and 12v direct to stuff like your coil pack, injectors etc as you supply an earth to activate them in most cases. Simple!

Lol! Don't worry about it mate, I'm happy to use them and save you some cash tbh. Just didn't anticipate using them all in one go! 😢
If I'd known, you could've had the mtl that came out of my old Quaife box! It was still like brand new! Oh how me and @not normal dan laughed as we stripped the old car down!
 
dablk

dablk

  Ex 182 owner
For the lacking in learning. How does the start up map work.? Is it based on a 172 or 197 or just totally generic?

And when you say startup? Is that just a case of standing back screaming it's alive... Then turn it off or can you drive it with care to the mapper?
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
dablk said:
For the lacking in learning. How does the start up map work.? Is it based on a 172 or 197 or just totally generic?

And when you say startup? Is that just a case of standing back screaming it's alive... Then turn it off or can you drive it with care to the mapper?
Click to expand...
The startup map will be a 197 map mate that's written for the gen90. That'll give some base settings just to get it to run, then it's a case of doing a bit of road mapping to make sure it's not running rich/lean. I'll do the driving and Chip will be doing the road mapping.

That will then allow me to put a few road miles on it before it goes for the proper mapping session. 50-100 miles or so, and if there's no leaks or issues to rectify it's going to get b*****d living f**k knocked out of it on the rollers! Lol
 
dablk

dablk

  Ex 182 owner
Thank you, that's what was my very rough guess. Was just curious if you could run something like this in. As I guessed you would want to before a proper map.

Loom looks purposeful.
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Martin. said:
That looks HUGE. It must be one strong engine stand, how much does the lump weigh?

Lol at the size of the alternator next to it!!
Click to expand...
Yeah it is on the big side. Lol! The engine there in that state weighs in at around a ton Martin. That's without oil and coolant!

It's been in for a full strip down and overhaul as the ceramic plungers in the high pressure fuel pump disintegrated and decided to spread the love throughout the rest of the engine. Everything has to be stripped off, inspected for wear/damage, and replaced as necessary. Been my job for this week. Back in and running like a beaut now.
 
nath&alex

nath&alex

ClioSport Club Member
Well popped in to Mark's this afternoon as I was down his way. All I can says it's even more exciting seeing it in the flesh than the pictures :hearteyes::tongueclosed:

Got to see the wiring p**n with my own eyes, nice job buddy :wink:

Can't wait for him to get it finished now

Having seen it in the flesh it's given me even more inspiration to push on with my little sunflower/Racing Blue project :stig:

It was obviously nice to meet the man behind the project as well:blush:
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
nath&alex said:
Well popped in to Mark's this afternoon as I was down his way. All I can says it's even more exciting seeing it in the flesh than the pictures :hearteyes::tongueclosed:

Got to see the wiring p**n with my own eyes, nice job buddy :wink:

Can't wait for him to get it finished now

Having seen it in the flesh it's given me even more inspiration to push on with my little sunflower/Racing Blue project :stig:

It was obviously nice to meet the man behind the project as well:blush:
Click to expand...
Well believe it or not, I'm not actually happy with the loom! Lol! I was moaning to BIGASH about it last Sunday night as we had our usual weekly catchup.
I wished I'd gone all out and used the raychem boots and boot glue rather than the adhesive lined stuff, but not only are they horrendously expensive, it's also a bit late for that now!

I'm glad it's inspired you to get cracking with yours too mate. I often stand looking at the cup thinking it doesn't look all that special, but I suppose that's because I've seen it substantially more than anyone else! Lol

Nice to meet you to buddy! :up:
 
NorthloopCup

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Had a bit of spare time today so I decided it was better to waste it on the cup!!

The loom is in and all clipped up, and despite my moaning about it, I'm actually VERY pleased with how it looks now it's fitted. Also shows that the time taken to mock it up was time well spent, as it really does fit fantastic. Not one area of it is touching/rubbing, so this helps reduce the risk of failures in areas that are not easily visible. Pics!!
image.jpeg
Bit of bling (that you won't be able to see!!!)
image.jpeg
And just in case you've all forgotten what it looks like:
image.jpeg

I'll be loom testing in the next few days/weeks once I've got all the ecu pins crimped on and located. Time permitting that'll be done this week.

Suppose I'd better get some cheap s**t mineral oil to put in the engine for its initial startup/run in. It'll have 50-100 miles under its belt to check for any oil/coolant leaks, then it'll go for mapping and to have the s**t knocked out of it. Lol!

More.
To.
Come. :cool:
 
T

Turbo steve

  Mk1 1.8 16V Turbo
Above and beyond properly..... Only ever seen this level of detail in top motorsport teams you should be very proud of what you have achieved
 
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