Brembo 4 pots with 283mm discs

[Grandpa Joe]

I'm sure I've seen a thread on here with Clio/Meg 4 pot Brembos fitted with 283mm brake bells and rotors under 15s.

I can't find the thread though despite numerous searches. Anyone know of this? I'm pretty sure Noos made the bracket kits.

 

[MG cup]

Its what I have mate, 280mm standard disks, Clio/meg 4 pots. Noos used to make bells and rotors that were the same offset etc as standard disks for a bit of lightness. He also done 300mm kits too in both solid and floating disk versions.

Noos's stuff has been removed from the site for some reason, he no longer does them anyway after a fall out with a business partner. You can fit them under 15" wheels but you need to space them right out. I did a test with several wheels I'll try the thread.

This threads worth a read if your thinking on modifying brakes. I'll find the other one too although its full of Chip waffle.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?644483-Big-brakes-using-Renault-parts

Here post #26

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?694771-Clio-big-brake-conversions/page2

 

[Grandpa Joe]

How do you find the Brembos with 24mm discs as they come on cars with 28mm thickness? I've read elsewhere to use 26mm minimum.

I'm getting a set of bells from Noos in a couple of weeks, one of the last remaining. Not sure what rotors to go for next, it depends what I can fit (283x24, 283x26 or 288x26)

I've got ET35 Pro Race 1.2s, they seem to have decent clearance compared to the OZ F1. From your photos it looks as though the 288mm discs will fit ok That's the largest Hi-spec rotor to suit Noos' bells and it only adds 2.5mm to the radius.

If I redesigned some bells I could go for 295mm rotors. From what you've seen do you think they'd fit?

I've already measured for some AP Racing 4 pots off a MGTF (same pad area as a Clio with 4x32mm pistons), they need a 10mm spacer so I'd probably run 15mm for a bolt to hub type. The problem is the callipers are lug mount so I'd probably go with the Brembos.

 

[MG cup]

Standard clio disks are 24mm and so is the Scenic 300mm disks.

Go for as thick as you can but I can't see 28mm disks fitting in the meg/Clio Brembos ?? and they're mono block so can't be widened in usual fashion.

My 16" pro race 1.2s are et40 and they need the 10mm spacers to work (I ground the hub to fit 10mm hubcentrics bolt through type to make good use of the PMS studs)

Yeah 295mm is definitely do able (Bigash runs Alcons and Ian speedy AP's) you just need a high offset disk for them to work in combination with the right calliper.

Those mgtf AP's are supposed to be turd from what I have read plus trying to mount a lug mount calliper that isn't within a few MM's of the standard calliper centres is a right job. You want to be looking for a radial mount calliper with 130mm centres so it doesn't conflict with standard mounting points, otherwise you end up with brackets like I have for my brembos which are marginal on machining/safe tolerances.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

The standard discs for the Bremos are 312x28mm.

If I go for 288 it'll give another 2.5mm on the thickness on the bracket. Will that help at all? Given the tight tolerances I'm guessing you used steel?

 

[MG cup]

Yeah wasn't sure of thickness, it will take some more off your offset with 28mm though.

No not really, with 300mm disks there is just enough room to use the standard renault calliper bolts. Yeah they're steel mate, need to be as you said. Using the same offset disks as standard will require the equivalent of a circa et10 wheel, more with a 288mm disk.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

The discs move in as they get thicker. So the standard ones have a height of 44 and thickness of 24, meaning the centre is 32. Whereas a 28mm thick disc would be 48 height and 34 centre. Giving an extra 2mm clearance.

Hmm I wonder if titanium would be up to the job or cold expanded and shot peened aluminum.

 

[MG cup]

Yeah the maths you have done there is right but discs aren't measured like that, they use offsets. You will really struggle tbh with the Meg Brembos if you don't want huge spacers, as said 130mm centre radials are the things to have, you can squeeze them under et48.5 2118's with 295mm disks with no spacers.

Good quality key steel is what mines look to have been made with.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/att...517720-brake-disc-dimensions-brake_rotors.jpg


To give you an idea why it's hard, the fixing studs for calliper and fixing bolts for the bracket collide. Inner holes are Clio mk1 and outer is mk2.

 

[EVOgone]

I have some brand AP new bells and bracket that fit direct just need some 295mm discs (hispec do some cheaper versions) and AP 5100 calipers. Fits under 15 inch rim best brakes you can get at this size and what I have on the rally car.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

The offset is the same but because you are making the 4mm up with the pads the calliper has to move to get it central to the disc. Hence a 28mm disc will give you 2mm more clearance.

I understand what you're saying and if the right callipers come up at the right price then I might get something different.

Out of interest how far from the face of the disc does the calliper protrude towards the wheel? And how much does it add to the radius of the disc?

 

[MG cup]

Yeah 2mm more clearance from the spokes in your example, but it's just an example. Bells and rotors are done in offsets typically though.

No measurements but a good bit as they aren't a slim calliper, try and find something like the below drawing (top left cross section and drawing below that) for the Brembo callipers and cut it out to scale and slide it over the disk for clearance. It's the the angled bit on the inside of the rim that it hits on 15" wheels I have tried.

A crazy offset disc is what you want (not sure how much further in you can actually go, will look tomorrow and take a pic) and you might be able to use socket cap bolts set into the brackets for the bracket to hub mounting and leave enough meat to be able to drill and tap the brackets for calliper mounting. Tricky to get right and they will end up about double the size of the brackets that I pictured and need some precise milling.

http://www.apracing.com/Drawings/cp5100_1cd.pdf

 

[MG cup]

Just been measuring up for custom bells and rotors, there is only a max 8mm increase in offset that you can do with a standard 24mm disk, even less with a 26mm and virtually nothing with a 28mm disk.

Spacers seem the only option with 15" wheels an meg/Clio brembos.

 

[Cupman29]

There is more to life Meg Brembos.

Why are you so fused on radials anyway?

 

[Grandpa Joe]

Just been measuring up for custom bells and rotors, there is only a max 8mm increase in offset that you can do with a standard 24mm disk, even less with a 26mm and virtually nothing with a 28mm disk.

Spacers seem the only option with 15" wheels an meg/Clio brembos.

Toight loik a toiger

 

[MG cup]

Very toight

I can't understand these kits that are available with 295mm disks that fit under 2118's, the callipers must be tiny. Next month I'm going to get custom bells and 280 or 283x 28mm hi spec disks and see what it comes out like. If the spacers are going to be too big for me I'll flog the kit.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

You either have to sacrifice pad area or pay for top of the range calipers, some of which don't have dust seals so need looking after.

I fancy the Brembos as they have a decent pad area and piston size, fairly rigid but more importantly they're a bit more fit and forget.

 

[Carbonraider]

Very toight

I can't understand these kits that are available with 295mm disks that fit under 2118's, the callipers must be tiny. Next month I'm going to get custom bells and 280 or 283x 28mm hi spec disks and see what it comes out like. If the spacers are going to be too big for me I'll flog the kit.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mine are 300mm and the problem that I have when using 15" OZf1 wheels is they wont fit inside the stepped part of the wheel, which means I have to run huge spacers to sit them in the bigger diameter main part of the wheel rather than the stepped section at the outer edge.

I probably need to lose best part of 10mm off the size of the disks before I can go down drastically in spacer size which I would like to do (running 30mm at the moment which is poor from a tramlining and torque steer point of view, would like to get down to 20mm or less really)

It is a real pain trying to have big brakes under small wheels sadly.

How much power do you have? A decent 280mm or so setup should be more than sufficient for an ITB or low boost turbo, its only when you start going 300+ its really an issue IME.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just been measuring up for custom bells and rotors, there is only a max 8mm increase in offset that you can do with a standard 24mm disk, even less with a 26mm and virtually nothing with a 28mm disk.

Spacers seem the only option with 15" wheels an meg/Clio brembos.

That was the problem I had on mine, I wanted to move the disks much further inboard but you just cant sadly, a few mm is the most you can manage, and it wasnt worth the hassle for that so I stuck with scenic disks on my initial mockup, when I go down to 290 and a bit ones (dont know exact size yet as no done enough mocking up yet) though I will probably go 26mm wide and about 4mm inwards with the offset.

when I made up the willwoods for my corsa I was able to move them in loads, but the lugs were a small enough diameter to go inside the bell of the disk, no chance of that on the clio though

 

[MG cup]

Crazy the size difference.

You can see in the second picture they have been machined on the 'plaque' face it seems for clearance. Was they from a twingo rally car?

 

[MG cup]

You either have to sacrifice pad area or pay for top of the range calipers, some of which don't have dust seals so need looking after.

I fancy the Brembos as they have a decent pad area and piston size, fairly rigid but more importantly they're a bit more fit and forget.

I have noticed the swept area on larger rotors gets smaller as diameter goes up on most, its not continual thing but if you choose the right rotor it will actually have more pad contact area than a few sizes above, the leverage gets smaller I know but it would be swings and roundabouts for a 10-15mm diameter increase which would help a lot for packaging.

 

[MG cup]

That was the problem I had on mine, I wanted to move the disks much further inboard but you just cant sadly, a few mm is the most you can manage, and it wasnt worth the hassle for that so I stuck with scenic disks on my initial mockup, when I go down to 290 and a bit ones (dont know exact size yet as no done enough mocking up yet) though I will probably go 26mm wide and about 4mm inwards with the offset.

when I made up the willwoods for my corsa I was able to move them in loads, but the lugs were a small enough diameter to go inside the bell of the disk, no chance of that on the clio though

Massive bells with a small swept area disc would be the ideal to keep the size you want although I'm not sure if the disc diameter would be small enough to work with off the shelf rotors.

I was finding before when I tried with oz f1's and 2118's, they both have the same problem. The wheel was actually moving in less than the size you were taking off the diameter of the disc because of that angled part.

 

[Carbonraider]

Crazy the size difference.

You can see in the second picture they have been machined on the 'plaque' face it seems for clearance. Was they from a twingo rally car?

Well I thought I'd upload a picture for you too compare sizes..

The brembo calipers are from a r3 rally car and in need of a restoration. Going cheap if anyone is interested.

 

[MG cup]

Well I thought I'd upload a picture for you too compare sizes..

The brembo calipers are from a r3 rally car and in need of a restoration. Going cheap if anyone is interested.

Yeah thanks for that, shows you why I feel I'm pissing into the wind.

Whats cheap, PM me. They are surprisingly cheap from R-sport new.

 

[Grandpa Joe]

Crazy the size difference.

You can see in the second picture they have been machined on the 'plaque' face it seems for clearance. Was they from a twingo rally car?

The benefit is a larger pad area on the Brembos (around 20x10 bigger)

Also with the Brembos being monobloc they are more rigid.

So if I can run 288x26mm with the Brembos I'm not sure I'd see a benefit going 295x24mm with the Wilwoods.

 

[MG cup]

The benefit is a larger pad area on the Brembos (around 20x10 bigger)

Also with the Brembos being monobloc they are more rigid.

So if I can run 288x26mm with the Brembos I'm not sure I'd see a benefit going 295x24mm with the Wilwoods.

Oh I'm not comparing them to Willwoods or any copy kit of the £600-£700 price bracket, there not on the radar for above reasons plus others hence going to all this bother for something different without paying 2k.

 

[Cupman29]

The benefit is a larger pad area on the Brembos (around 20x10 bigger)

Also with the Brembos being monobloc they are more rigid.

So if I can run 288x26mm with the Brembos I'm not sure I'd see a benefit going 295x24mm with the Wilwoods.

Remember, we're stopping a Clio, not a train.

 

[MG cup]

Remember, we're stopping a Clio, not a train.

flol these might stop it more than once or twice before dying though