Bren's Sunflower 172 - Engine Rebuild

[Paul172sport]

theres some great roads that way. used to come up that way for work and used head out to the hills.
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[Bren Rogers]

theres some great roads that way. used to come up that way for work and used head out to the hills.
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perfect roads for running the engine in, lovely up there. Reminded me of Ireland.

 

[welshname]

Looks really nice. I'm lucky enough to be literally 15mins from roads like that. I've spent full days up there before now driving round. It's awesome.

This is where I thought you were...Well, it's near where I thought you were.

DSCF0644 by welshname, on Flickr

Hope you get everything sorted with the car soon. Seems like forever since it was taken off the road.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Right, electrical issues look like they'll be next to impossible to diagnose so going to have to get my hands on an engine and interior loom in mint condition. If anyone out there is breaking a ph1 with looms in good condition please let me know.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?694179-WANTED-Ph1-172-Engine-and-interior-loom

 

[welshname]

Right, electrical issues look like they'll be next to impossible to diagnose so going to have to get my hands on an engine and interior loom in mint condition. If anyone out there is breaking a ph1 with looms in good condition please let me know.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?694179-WANTED-Ph1-172-Engine-and-interior-loom

Jon is breaking his ph1.

 

[Bren Rogers]

So..

The car is been sat still on the drive whilst I've been hunting down Ph1 Engine and Interior looms. Bit of a nightmare as I was offered all sorts, from Ph2 looms to Ph1 looms with broken wires and connectors. Finally happened by someone breaking a Ph1, and got myself the Engine loom, ECU, MTU and Key Chip (in attempt to rule as much out as possible).

Also still hunting for an interior loom (again to try and rule everything out). May have found one, but I'll have to wait until it's removed from the car.

So we'll have to wait to get this all on the car at some point and see if it solves the problem

 

[Craig.]

What seems to be the problem mate with you wanting to change the looms?

 

[f0xy]

Long story short...

We're using a decoded ECU (like I used to run on the Mk1) so there is no need for a key, UCH/MTU or immobiliser setup. All thats required is a good engine loom, a good set of sensors and a good ECU. Anyway, it stopped starting a while ago, just cranking which points at TDC sensor. Tried Bren's on another car and it works fine. Which then pointed at the decoded ECU, but we tried that on the other car too and it worked fine. Only thing left is the loom itself (which had been cut and chopped by a previous owner at some point) so we decided to start from a fresh 'known working' loom, as we know the ECU and set of sensors are 100% fine

 

[Bren Rogers]

Yeah, so this.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Busy few days, whacked the new engine loom and and we were away...

f0xy picked up a new GoPro today, so we went about getting some vids as there wasn't much better to do with a Sunday afternoon. Bit of hero action..

 

[Stu.]

Woohoo! Back on the road then? I'm sticking another engine in mine lol.

Will this be at CSS?

 

[Bren Rogers]

Woohoo! Back on the road then? I'm sticking another engine in mine lol.

Will this be at CSS?

No I'll be at LeMans, and boosting around Europe with a few mates.

 

[Bren Rogers]

So went for some photos with a friend of mine who just picked up a DC2 - a car I've lusted over for a while. Forgive me if these photos aren't semi-pro quality which most people have become accustomed to..

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[Adamm.]

Awesome mate good effort getting it running. Liking those pics above looks very nice sat next to the DC2 .

 

[Bren Rogers]

Awesome mate good effort getting it running. Liking those pics above looks very nice sat next to the DC2 .

Hardly my efforts really, f0xy put in all the hard work as most of the electrical stuff just baffles me and he knows his way round thse like the back of his hand.

 

[MrKnifey]

That Jamies new DC2? He sold the fiesta yet?

 

[Craig.]

Bet your chuffed to bits its back on the road

Cool video & pictures, it sounds really good in the video too.

 

[Bren Rogers]

That Jamies new DC2? He sold the fiesta yet?

Yeah that's Jamie's new car. He's still got the XR2 which he's now considering breaking.

Bet your chuffed to bits its back on the road

Cool video & pictures, it sounds really good in the video too.

Yeah very happy. Still not perfect due to needing a new N/S hub (on it's way) and possibly ANOTHER driveshaft. I'm just going to enjoy it though, it's such a fun car.

It's easy to forget just how loud the car is when on full chat, which raises a childish grin every time. Yet it's still (relatively) comfortable and quiet on the motorway.

 

[mikeh]

Quite a test you've been through with the engine etc!

Out of curiosity, what did it cost for the engine machining work and the new gaskets, bearings, rings etc.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Quite a test you've been through with the engine etc!

Out of curiosity, what did it cost for the engine machining work and the new gaskets, bearings, rings etc.

Minus labour and the fact I bought half the stuff over a year ago.. it was roughly £50-75 for machining work. Bearings, cam seals, valve seals, piston rings and gaskets came to around £150-£170 iirc, cambelt kit was around £75 I think.

Don't hold me to that though, as it was funking ages ago. I also had some mates that helped source genuine parts and work cheap.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Well, the sunflower has been going well for a while, so booked the ferry to bring the car over to Ireland for a while. Hopefully the weather hangs around for that later in August.

Interesting turn of events the other night too, picked up a CD player from Jonff, and on the way home I heard a noise from the engine bay that didn't sound familiar. Seemed to only be in 2nd gear. On the short drive home the noise got much much worse, although the car seems to drive fine. Still mostly in 2nd.. So looks like the gearbox has given up. With heading off to Ireland in about 3/4 weeks I'll be having the gearbox rebuilt, hopefully by agency transmissions as they come so highly recommended by many members. Hopefully it'll be a quick turnaround, and much more worthwhile than a 2nd hand gearbox as I've heard far too many horror stories.

Hopefully with a lot of help, the gearbox could be back in the car in a week or so.

Joy or Renault ownership.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Quick update on this..

Without the time/means/skill to actually remove the gearbox on my own, I decided to send the car to Birchdown. Not cheap, but at least I know it'll be done right and their service and communication has been great so far. I arranged recovery of the car and Birchdown managed to have the gearbox out, and on it's way ot Agency Transmissions by midday on Monday. I've just spoken to Martin at Agency, and the gearbox will be stripped down tomorrow morning.

After describing the issue, Martin thinks it may be a chipped tooth off the 2nd gear cog, he has standard prices depending on the issues with 172 gearboxes, and from memory they are:

• £275 for bearings/seals/gaskets
• £375 for bearings/seals/gaskets + Any cogs that need replacing

So it shouldn't cost any more than £375 for all the work. More expensive than a 2nd hand replacemnt, but infinitely more reliable.

If all goes well, then Birchdown will be able to have the gearbox back on the car on Friday, as well as a new clutch (~£100).

With the car also hitting ~1000 miles and run-in after the engine rebuild it's also time to swap out the mineral oil for synthetic. This time next week I'll be in Ireland with the car, but before then I have a few more jobs that need sorting.

• fit N/S Hub
• fit N/S Driveshaft
• fit Passenger window regulator
• Oil Service

Busy weekend ahead... still don't know how I'm going to get the car from Birchdown to Warrington yet. :S

 

[Chi]

Why is mineral oil used for running in engines?

 

[Laine_16v]

Why is mineral oil used for running in engines?

To increase friction levels in the cruicial ring seating process. However 1000 miles is quite excessive IMO. 50-100 miles max for mineral, then 500 miles Semi synth, then fully synth, everyone does it differently and has their own views as to what works best though.

 

[Bren Rogers]

Why is mineral oil used for running in engines?

To increase friction levels in the cruicial ring seating process. However 1000 miles is quite excessive IMO. 50-100 miles max for mineral, then 500 miles Semi synth, then fully synth, everyone does it differently and has their own views as to what works best though.

Exactly that. Everyone seems to do it differently, but went with advice from someone I trust.

I spoke to Marting at Agency Transmissions yesterday after he stripped the gearbox down. Really top guy. Initially he asked whether the car was a track car as the gearbox had been apart previously. I thught it was the original box, but it appears not. Somoene had installed a 182 gearset, and with that had rigged up the speedo by machining part of it. The differential had also been messed with as Martin said it just fell to pieces when he started taking it apart. The damage was 3 teeth missing off the main gear, and 2 (iirc) missing from 2nd gear. Just goes to show how imporant it is to stick with companies with good reputations. So the gearbox has been completely rebuilt, with new cogs, bearings, seals etc. Came to £350 in the end.

Luckily managed to get the gearbox straight over to Birchdown this morning with no issues. I've just spoken to them, and the car will be ready by the end of the day. I've also decided to have a new clutch fitted, not that the car really needed it, but it's one less thing to worry about.

Glad I'll have the car back for the weekend so I can sort out all the little odd jobs that need finishing before I go away next week.

 

[Poolie]

Certainly come a long way! Well done!

 

[Bren Rogers]

Cracking, good to see it in a previous life!

Well the gearbox feels fantastic, but that wasn't the end of the trouble. The following day the alternator decided to stop charging the battery. It appeared to be putting out enough charge to run the car, but when you come to start the car the battery was dead. It's a new battery, which pointed to the alternator. So after a massive panic I managed to grab an alternator and get the car booked in for a swap on Monday. Somewhat frustratingly both alternators appeared to be working normally when tested off the car. Fitted the new one anyway, and had the terminals cleaned up and a new earth strapped fitted. Along with that I had a new bear on the front left - as someone sent me a O/S hub rather than N/S

Swapped oil and headed off to Ireland, and spent a good amount of time waiting for something to go wrong. But to my surprise it was good as gold, drove great the whole time, and the roads over there let you really enjoy driving it. Did around 1000miles over there, all fault free.


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[Bren Rogers]

Forgot about this one..

 

[Bren Rogers]

So, I'm moving abroad for a new job which makes for a reluctant sale..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251377971...l?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=251377971704&_rdc=1

 

[subtle modder]

Such a shame, its something that, in that condition/spec its unlkely youll get chance to own again :-/

Got to say i bloody love the car, its a really nice example and although some say its just a colour, Sunflower really does make the Ph1 for me, ive got a titanium PH1 which to me still looks fooking smart but yours just looks so much more epic

Out of interest whats tempted you with the abroad offers? i hear of it so much and always wonder what makes people go for it? increase in pay is surely offest by cost/inconvenience of moving?

Wayne

 

[Jamie86]

Car looks great shame youre selling, not tempted to store it just in case?

Also where did you get the ECU decoded? Did you still have it?

 

[Bren Rogers]

Such a shame, its something that, in that condition/spec its unlkely youll get chance to own again :-/

Got to say i bloody love the car, its a really nice example and although some say its just a colour, Sunflower really does make the Ph1 for me, ive got a titanium PH1 which to me still looks fooking smart but yours just looks so much more epic

Out of interest whats tempted you with the abroad offers? i hear of it so much and always wonder what makes people go for it? increase in pay is surely offest by cost/inconvenience of moving?

Wayne

Hey Wayne,

Thanks.

Yeah it is a real shame to be selling, I've spent so much money on it over the past year or so and I'll barely have a chance to get any use out of it. A lot of people say they couldn't live with the colour, and I had my doubts at first, but it really is special. It gets so much attention wherever it goes!

The move has a number of benefits for me. The job is building on what I've been doing for the past 5 years, is with a fantastic company and much better salary. I've not moved far, I've moved to Cork in Ireland. To import the car would be too much hassle and expensive (road tax in Ireland for a 2ltr is very expensive for a start). The move is 50/50 personal and professional. I was born in Ireland, and a lot of my family are over in Ireland (including my parents who recently moved back over).

I'm just buying a cheap runabout over here as I have virtually not commute to work.

Car looks great shame youre selling, not tempted to store it just in case?

Also where did you get the ECU decoded? Did you still have it?

I don't have anywhere to store the car sadly, and even then I'm planning on the move being permanent.

I bought the decoded ECU, and it is still on the car. I don't know where it was done, but I don't think it'd be too hard to find someone else on CS that knows.


Just a reminder to everyone that the sale ends SATURDAY NIGHT!

 

[subtle modder]

Paul at RSTuning did my ecu Jamie. £120 Iirc

Good luck with sale, really nice example that's clearly worth the effort you've put in

 

[f0xy]

Andrew Cooke did the ECU

 

[Jamie86]

Sorry to go OT (guys in the know are in this thread though) a bit but I'm planning on using a ph1 ecu in my race car that has immob issues, pretty sure its the key.

So basically would a decoded one enable me just to have a switch and do away with immob/key etc?

 

[Timmsy]

Just seen this thread! such a shame your selling up.

out of curiosity, what size spacers did you go for on the front in the end and what was the size of the steering wheel?

 

[f0xy]

Sorry to go OT (guys in the know are in this thread though) a bit but I'm planning on using a ph1 ecu in my race car that has immob issues, pretty sure its the key.

So basically would a decoded one enable me just to have a switch and do away with immob/key etc?

Yes. Plug ECU in, connect power to loom, turn the key in the barrel = away you go

 

[Bren Rogers]

Just seen this thread! such a shame your selling up.

out of curiosity, what size spacers did you go for on the front in the end and what was the size of the steering wheel?

20mm spacers and I think the steering wheel is *250mm

 

[Bren Rogers]

Just collected by the New owner.

 

[Mr R.]

What a bargain he got.

Good that its staying on the forum though.