Clio 172 Cup Advice

[seph90]

Hi there I'm looking at upgrading my Saxo VTR and having read all the reviews really fancy a Clio 172 Cup but there are a few questions that I'm hoping some of you may be able to help me with.
Firstly, can anoyone tell me how the Cup handles compared with the Saxo? I've read that they have quite similar abilities, but has anyone driven both and have an oppinion?
Next, my dad (who owns a garage) believes that renault engines on the whole are not built particularly well (I had an old Megane which blew a head gasket twice in about 3 months), how robust are the cliosport engines? I'd imagine they are built to withstand some agressive driving.
And lastfully, I don't really want to spend anymore than £1500 (may be wishful thinking) what are the chances of me picking up a half decent example for that amount? If it is not likely, is there much difference between a normal 172 and a Cup. I'm not worried about all the toys - as long as it has a stereo and puts a smile on my face I'm happy.
Thanks in advance

 

[mantis946]

I've not driven a VTR so im out on that account, but engine wise if it has FSH and has been timed correctly with the tools and knowledge the engines are solid and can take abuse most days. It's very rare for a gasket failure on these engines, the biggest issue is typically with the timing, often it's done wrong (Lack of knowledge and specific timing tools) and results in loss of power. Other stories include dropped valves and failed aux belts that fail and take out the timing belt with it. Also the de phaser pulley seems to be one of the weak points of the engines and can cause a diesel like engine note, and sometimes even failure - if you are getting the belts done it's best to get this replaced also.

Otherwise a very eager lump and loves/need's to be worked to get the most out of it.

 

[Knuckles]

im sure Jimbo will be along shortly, off the top of my head he'd be a good person to talk to... he went from a vtr to a vts to a cup.

the cups come with cloth seats, no a/c (a few were specced with this) only came in blue ( can never remember the name) or iceberg silver. come with turinis and a cup spoiler as standard, wider track front and rear (cant remember by how much), slightly lower suspension, cup chassis.

in short its the only clio cup worth having. the rest (182/197/200) are all just poverty spec clios branded cups

 

[mantis946]

im sure Jimbo will be along shortly, off the top of my head he'd be a good person to talk to... he went from a vtr to a vts to a cup.

the cups come with cloth seats, no a/c (a few were specced with this) only came in blue ( can never remember the name) or iceberg silver. come with turinis and a cup spoiler as standard, wider track front and rear (cant remember by how much), slightly lower suspension, cup chassis.

in short its the only clio cup worth having. the rest (182/197/200) are all just poverty spec clios branded cups

Could go even more awesome and go PH1 with cup packs

The wider track on the cup's is due to the increased offset on the turini's - so make sure you get one with it's original alloys !

 

[Knuckles]

ph1.5? made of win i thought the track was widened as well?

also, cups dont come with xenons or cruise/climate control. if you can live without them get the cup


but yeah, as above, these engines are fairly bulletproof* if you keep ontop of belts/servicing.

i base that statement on scoffs 700+bhp F4R

 

[mantis946]

ph1.5? made of win i thought the track was widened as well?

also, cups dont come with xenons or cruise/climate control. if you can live without them get the cup


but yeah, as above, these engines are fairly bulletproof* if you keep ontop of belts/servicing.

i base that statement on scoffs 700+bhp F4R

I stand corrected, looks like the hubs are also slightly different (Gives a slightly wider track with a dab of caster) - explains the difference in driveshafts !

 

[mantis946]

For any specifics in changes in the cup:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?161921-Renaultsport-Clio-172-Cup

You will need to be a paid member to view it but it's fairly detailed.

 

[Deany]

I've gone from a vtr to a vts to a cup.

Much the same as the saxo's but larger, with more power, its the torque which really sets the cup apart from the saxos. handling wise, very similar, but my cup is on standard shocks/springs and both my saxo's were lowered. the braking on the cup is IMMENSE compared to what i was used to as well.

I get better mpg's frthe clio than any of my saxo's did.

not sure you'll get a decent cup for 1500 tbh, i paid 2300 for mine with no history on 71k

 

[seph90]

thanks for your replys. Anyone give me the basic differences between a phase 1 and phase 2 172?

 

[Knuckles]

cable throttle on the ph1, electric iirc on the ph2.

the ph1's are pre facelift with the round headlights and nasty thin rear bumper*

they come with o.z f1's as standard. have a look through the ph1 appreciation thread



*:rasp:

 

[mantis946]

PH1's are a bit more raw with less creature comforts, a slightly more aggressive front end (but a fairly marmite tail) has differences to the exhaust system, and on some bonnet material (aluminium - light weight) and a "shift light" (over rev warning) indicator. Asides from the cosmetics, they had a longer ratio'd gearbox and larger ports on the head. These ones didn't come with a cup model.

Mines come's with the optional hand freezing gearknob. You also have to learn to live with the interior - it's not the best.

 

[e19anp]

I've gone from a vtr to a vts to a cup.

Much the same as the saxo's but larger, with more power, its the torque which really sets the cup apart from the saxos. handling wise, very similar, but my cup is on standard shocks/springs and both my saxo's were lowered. the braking on the cup is IMMENSE compared to what i was used to as well.

I get better mpg's frthe clio than any of my saxo's did.

not sure you'll get a decent cup for 1500 tbh, i paid 2300 for mine with no history on 71k

a got mines for £1800 with no history on 69k

 

[B19WAW]

im sure Jimbo will be along shortly, off the top of my head he'd be a good person to talk to... he went from a vtr to a vts to a cup.

the cups come with cloth seats, no a/c (a few were specced with this) only came in blue ( can never remember the name) or iceberg silver. come with turinis and a cup spoiler as standard, wider track front and rear (cant remember by how much), slightly lower suspension, cup chassis.

in short its the only clio cup worth having. the rest (182/197/200) are all just poverty spec clios branded cups

its the cup thats poverty spec

 

[Knuckles]

i know, but its the only one worth having. renault made an effort to make the 172cup better. the rest just lost toys and got the cup chassis

 

[AdamSmith]

I've also done the VTR>VTS>Cup route.

Put simply, its natural progression.

It's better in everyway. They are high maintenance but like anything; if you look after it it'll look out for you.

I can't add much to whats already been said. You won't find one worth getting for £1500, especially as their value is starting to creep up again.

 

[Cup_Phil]

The saxo/106 is better handling standard, the clio's tend to be a bit understeery where the 106/saxo will oversteer with a bit of lift-off
Fit a whiteline ARB to a clio though and it'll feel just like the saxo

The engines are fine - mines done 118k and gets used on track monthly with no problems. Just make sure it's got lots of service history. Regular oil changes are a good thing!

 

[Dave Hester]

The 172 engine is strong and can take some serious abuse if well maintained

The gearbox is sadly not as strong and poor driving and endless full throttle launches will kill it

 

[plymcl172]

maybe the fact that a VTR is 90-100 BHP and the cup is 172 BHP. slight difference in power ......

 

[Knuckles]

Tuned vtr's are around 120 and weigh 750kgs, they can have similar pace to 1*2's

 

[plymcl172]

120 v 172 ? err ........ :S

 

[Knuckles]

I didn't say they have the same bhp, but doesn't bhp per tonne come into this somewhere?

 

[plymcl172]

a VTS maybe yeah, not a VTR

 

[alex-avfc]

I used to own a 106 gti which is the same suspension wise as a VTR. The saxo/106 handles better for me, more fun, more adjustable, less body roll, faster turn in standard v standard.

The clio rolls about a fair bit standard (easily sorted with Eibach springs so I'm told) but it digs in and changes direction very well once you're used to that.

The car feels overall a lot more solid to drive and the Clio engine is light years ahead of the VTR's 8 valver. As another mentioned, it's the torque that makes a massive difference, that's the thing I have noticed the most.

Brakes are a lot better too in the Clio.

 

[plymcl172]

The 172 engine is strong and can take some serious abuse if well maintained

The gearbox is sadly not as strong and poor driving and endless full throttle launches will kill it

the gearbox is miles better than the saxo's ! :approve:

buy a clio OP you wont look back !

 

[mitch1503]

engines are ok as said aslong as theyre well serviced.. mines just clocked 118k of which iv done 42.5k in the past 16months and most of that has been hard driving

 

[Stig182]

Tuned vtr's are around 120 and weigh 750kgs, they can have similar pace to 1*2's

a vtr weighs 920kg, a clio cup weighs 946Kg.

 

[Knuckles]

Really? I thought cups were over 1000kg? Oh well. I was basing that off my mates Saxo sorry, don't know how heavy standard ones are

 

[Stig182]

Really? I thought cups were over 1000kg? Oh well. I was basing that off my mates Saxo sorry, don't know how heavy standard ones are

1035kg

 

[plymcl172]

Really? I thought cups were over 1000kg? Oh well. I was basing that off my mates Saxo sorry, don't know how heavy standard ones are

still think you are getting the VTR and VTS mixed up. VTS can/could beat a Clio on a track or road easy. VTR's are total crap old fashioned 8v with 90 or 100 BHP!

 

[seph90]

Actually I would argue that the VTR offers 90% of the thrills but at half the price of the VTS. But anyway its off topic. Thanks everyone for your comments - I will definetly be on the look out for a Cup!

 

[CabinFever]

A 172 Cup does not weigh 935kgs, I thought it was 1011kgs?! It's certainly over a tonne, albeit only slightly.

 

[Knuckles]

still think you are getting the VTR and VTS mixed up. VTS can/could beat a Clio on a track or road easy. VTR's are total crap old fashioned 8v with 90 or 100 BHP!

I know what the difference between the two are lol... And I know how fast tuned VTRs are... Still not a patch on a tuned vts lol

 

[Jimbo_M]

I have went from a VTR > VTS > 172 CUP. The Cup weighs in at 1039 which is 89 kilo's lighter than a normal 172 and the weight DOES make a difference if your 172 is healthy.

Comparing it to a saxo;

handling - Is better than a saxo in some respects however what the saxo slightly lacks it makes up for in terms of 'fun'...it seems more rewarding some how chucking the saxo around compared to the clio.

Power - My cup with a BTB and panel filter is pretty equal to the pace of my tuned VTS, however once you reach around 80 - 90mph the clio pulls better and has alot more useable torque which is great for daily driving.

Brakes - The brakes on the cup are much better. I put a good fast road set up on my VTS and on my Cup and my Cup is much better in the braking department giving alot more confidence.

Interior - Isnt really any more interesting than the Saxo's however it is built slightly better...only just though lol.

Cups are great hot hatches if you can find a decent one. The engines are pretty bullet proof if you find one that has been serviced and taken care of

Which one do i think is the better car?...The cup however i would defo have another VTS if i needed to 'down grade' for financial reasons and i miss mine a hell of a lot.