Clio 182 turbo using 225 turbo

[Zephyrous]

Started discussing this in someone else's thread so decided to start my own. Basically I want to turbo my 182 using a megane 225 turbo and manifold.

Main problems would be I need a custom inlet manifold and to adapt the breather to give the turbo clearance.

Few things I haven't researched so far.

First is if the oil feed and return for a 182 turbo kit would fit the megane turbo or could I use the meganes oil feed parts.

Second would the intercooler pipe work fit round the alternator and air con, not entirely sure how the 182 intercooler pipe work fits past either as it's very tight down there. Pictures would be good.

Third as it's going to be low pressure till I can afford to forge do I need a thicker head gasket as some kits have it and other don't and it's a lot of work if it's not needed.

Also if anyone else can think of any problems that might happen please post.

Thanks

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Hello Buddy.

The 225 turbo will fit the clio head and will of course fit. if its a 182 your breather plate will have space.

The Inlet as you say wont fit but you can get a custom one, however you could stick the 225 head and inlet on and make it look nice, few people on here have done such @WilkyWay @w33BRL we do a custom fuel setup to enable a FPR in line

The 225 Pipe work for the 225 wont fit down past the altinator, however a custom job is possible. ( see photos )

The standard clio internals are good for a safe 240/250Bhp, a thicker megane 225 1.3mm head gasket will lower compresion letting you run a little more.

If i can be of any help drop me a line

 

[Zephyrous]

I have a 225 head and inlet but I'm trying to avoid taking the engine apart until I can afford a full forged engine. I plan on making the inlet myself as I have tools to build and weld one, was thinking of modifying the megane inlet but don't think it's worth it.

 

[Cupman29]

You could use this for the inlet.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?753409-Custom-Inlet-manifold&highlight=custom+inlet

Boost pipework is pretty straight forward. Keep it 2" and you shouldn't have too many problems routing it.

I agree with Andy though, you would be better with the head as well or even the thicker head garket. Boost on the cheap never ends well!

 

[Zephyrous]

I had a look at that inlet but it's not the neatest or prettiest inlet. There is a lot of work involved fitting the megane head and really don't want to have to take the head off just for a gasket.

If I can I will forge before fitting a turbo, hopefully it would be only running few months before I forge as i was going to get all the turbo and inlet done and working so I can just swap the engines over. Two stage conversion so it's not off the road to long.

So 2" boost pipe fits down the side of the aircon and then just a case of making it run to where it needs then.

Thanks for the advise so far guys.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

You could use this for the inlet.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?753409-Custom-Inlet-manifold&highlight=custom+inlet

Boost pipework is pretty straight forward. Keep it 2" and you shouldn't have too many problems routing it.

I agree with Andy though, you would be better with the head as well or even the thicker head garket. Boost on the cheap never ends well!

we have just found a additional 26bhp from 2" pipes upgrading to 2.25" units Some back to back testing last week at EFI

 

[Chip-mk1]

197 head and inlet is an option too. Might require rotating the compressor outlet a bit or modifying it slightly but other than that it looks like it should go no drama.

 

[Chip-mk1]

we have just found a additional 26bhp from 2" pipes upgrading to 2.25" units Some back to back testing last week at EFI

on what spec engine? Ive seen over 300bhp on 2" pipes with no drama at all.

and 600bhp on 2.5" and yet I still see some people with 3" pipes on a 300bhp engine, lol.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Forged engine, Not 100% sure of the C.R but its pretty low. Gt2871 Turbo

The car flowed a LOT more air than before, before hand the car would not make more than 279bhp. it is also got a upgraded air intake too with larger filter.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Forged engine, Not 100% sure of the C.R but its pretty low. Gt2871 Turbo

The car flowed a LOT more air than before, before hand the car would not make more than 279bhp. it is also got a upgraded air intake too with larger filter.

Somehow I suspect that the filter might possibly have had more of an influence than the pipework in that test, as restrictions before the turbo are a lot more dramatic than after (hence ALL motorsport restrictors Ive ever seen on a turbo car are pre-turbo), but obviously without going and doing the test again with the old filter it would be impossible to be sure.

2.25-2.5" is the right ballpark to be in though to know that you confidently have plenty of headroom without ending up with massive pipes everywhere that just dont do any good like when people stupidly go 3".

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

This is true Simon.

We didnt do it as a test as such just a comparison after we remapped

 

[Zephyrous]

If 2.25 fits then it's one less restriction even if it's only little difference you know it's not that holding you back

 

[jjones82]

on what spec engine? Ive seen over 300bhp on 2" pipes with no drama at all.

and 600bhp on 2.5" and yet I still see some people with 3" pipes on a 300bhp engine, lol.

Quick question Chip (and apologies if its off topic!), what would you say 1.7" boost pipework would flow ok for? As thats the standard boost hose size on the megane 225/ R26 and a lot of people say upgrading to 2" pipework(from forge etc) is pointless as they flow well enough and are no restriction.
I've allready upgraded to the forge hard pipe kit which is 2" (got themn cheap so couldn't resist!)and Henk at fastchip has said he has seen good gains with them, wheras a lot of people (including Paul at RStuning) say theirs no point!
Any insights would be grateful, cheers!

 

[Zephyrous]

The throttle body is going to restrict you.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Quick question Chip (and apologies if its off topic!), what would you say 1.7" boost pipework would flow ok for? As thats the standard boost hose size on the megane 225/ R26 and a lot of people say upgrading to 2" pipework(from forge etc) is pointless as they flow well enough and are no restriction.
I've allready upgraded to the forge hard pipe kit which is 2" (got themn cheap so couldn't resist!)and Henk at fastchip has said he has seen good gains with them, wheras a lot of people (including Paul at RStuning) say theirs no point!
Any insights would be grateful, cheers!

I wouldnt expect the 1.7" to cause a problem under 300bhp, but I havent tried using pipework quite that small personally.
If I had an R26 on a standard turbo I wouldnt bother changing it, if I had a hybrid I probably then would.

Paul is a far better person to listen to than me in that context though, he has more experience of the megane specifically than anyone else in the UK.

 

[jjones82]

I wouldnt expect the 1.7" to cause a problem under 300bhp, but I havent tried using pipework quite that small personally.
If I had an R26 on a standard turbo I wouldnt bother changing it, if I had a hybrid I probably then would.

Paul is a far better person to listen to than me in that context though, he has more experience of the megane specifically than anyone else in the UK.

Cheers for the reply chip, thats the problem the two most respected tuners - Paul and Henk both have completely different views on the subject! Henk reckons he's seen gains of 20-30bhp whereas Paul says its pointless!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheers for the reply chip, thats the problem the two most respected tuners - Paul and Henk both have completely different views on the subject! Henk reckons he's seen gains of 20-30bhp whereas Paul says its pointless!

I'd be inclined to side with Paul on that one, as I know the turbo will just run out of puff anyway, you might get away with a 1 psi less from the turbo with the better pipework but the gains from that are going to be tiny, no way once you have already mapped it to max the turbo out is that going to be 20-30bhp by changing the pipework 2-3 maybe!

 

[Zephyrous]

How much would having a head gasket changed to thicker one cost me and do you think some where like btm could do it as that's 30 minutes from me.

Also will the engine still run n/a as it's a lower compression or should I do it once I have the turbo running.

With the ecu can I run the car with a stock turbo map to take it to a tuner probably be the after market ecu you do Andy.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well the headgasket change also requires a belt change, so you are looking at the cost of that (500 ish?) on top of the gasket and bolts and some labour for changing, so probably 800+ bill in total I guess, but you would need to ask Fred for a more certain figure of what he would charge.

It would still run N/A, but would be down on power and make worse MPG.

 

[Zephyrous]

Thanks for info chip still not sure it worth doing the head gasket for £800. Would 230hp safely run on a stock engine ?

 

[scotty2hotty81]

Thanks for info chip still not sure it worth doing the head gasket for £800. Would 230hp safely run on a stock engine ?

Yes very safe with a decent map, standard clutch is fine to.

 

[Zephyrous]

Thanks Scott

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks for info chip still not sure it worth doing the head gasket for £800. Would 230hp safely run on a stock engine ?

Makes no financial sense at all to do it on an engine thats already in and working, worth logging one if in building an engine up though.

230 is no drama at all.

 

[Zephyrous]

I'm going to get a second engine forged with low compression pistons would it still be a good idea to fit a thicker gasket ?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not really mate, if you have lower comp pistons you dont need it.

Depends exactly what pistons you use and which CR you are after though.

 

[Zephyrous]

Aiming for 300-320hp once fully forged, not sure what CR I should be using for that.

 

[scotty2hotty81]

Aiming for 300-320hp once fully forged, not sure what CR I should be using for that.

Thats exactly what I did, bolt on kit 222hp ran it for a year or two, built a low comp lump during that period.

300 is doable with forged pistons/rods and aftermarket management, unsure if the megane turbo is good for that efficiently I guess so.

 

[Zephyrous]

Seen a few people do it, it's good way of going about it, specially as the car isn't in bits for too long. I will be sending the standard megane turbo off for a hybrid one that goes to 350hp which hopefully make spool up time less but not quite running out of puff at the end

 

[Zephyrous]

Will it be easier getting a custom downpipe or moving the brake system away from that side ? Also does the megane downpipe work with a 182 exhaust ?

 

[Zippyobrien]

Any way of adding a 2-3bar map sensor to the std management and running that, or do you have to go after market. ?

 

[Zephyrous]

Any way of adding a 2-3bar map sensor to the std management and running that, or do you have to go after market. ?

I you can run using a standard ecu but it's limited you would be better using a piggy back ecu to control the engine and sensors, it will make it more reliable and easier to map specially if you go for higher power.

 

[WilkyWay]

If you're aiming for 350hp then don't use a Megane turbo.

Use a GT2860 or 2871. Then you'll not have the problems with the downpipe hitting the master cylinder, you can buy off the shelf parts to get it to fit and you'll easily make the power you're after. As for as I know there isn't a standard frame Megane turbo that'll make a reliable 350hp, I might be wrong though....

As for ECU use a standalone IMO. We always use Adaptronic and have never had any problems with them but there's loads of options out there.

 

[Zephyrous]

If you're aiming for 350hp then don't use a Megane turbo.

Use a GT2860 or 2871. Then you'll not have the problems with the downpipe hitting the master cylinder, you can buy off the shelf parts to get it to fit and you'll easily make the power you're after. As for as I know there isn't a standard frame Megane turbo that'll make a reliable 350hp, I might be wrong though....

As for ECU use a standalone IMO. We always use Adaptronic and have never had any problems with them but there's loads of options out there.

This is what I was going to upgrade to once I get the forged engine in. http://www.rstuning.co.uk/turbochar...ult-megane-rs-hybrid-turbo-rebuild-p-274.html