cliosport......i could really do with a bit of help on handling :(

[jinjur]

Right gang, you all know I have went through a suspension refresh that caused me agony BUT.....in the process.....the knocking that was driving me spare is now gone.

BUT

BUT

A "brisk" drive home down the motorway this evening revealed that the car was VERY float at speed. Unnervingly so

What's been done?

• New shocks front and rear (Reno genuine)
• New top mounts and bearings (KYB)
• New bottom ball joints (lemforder)
• New track rods (first line....shhhh)
• New track rod ends (lemforder)

All followed by a further Corghi 4 wheel laser check, 2 wheel alignment. I'll upload the values tomorrow.

Tyres are all mint, rain sports - front and conti cs3 - back

I'm baffled team and really need some pointers

Please help

J

 

[Korky]

Steering rack bushes?
Anti roll bar and wishbone bushes? All can cause movement in the suspension/steering

 

[jinjur]

Hey Korky,

I couldnt get the rack to budge one bit at all mate with wifey moving it and me under the car on ramps.

As for the wishbone bushes, well......they are rusty but with full force on a crowbar i couldn't move them that much, I assume there has to be a bit of play in them though.

The arb end bushes look ever so slightly deformed and the inners cracked but from others posts on here that didn't seem like an issue that would cause serious wandering at m'way speeds up?

J

 

[jinjur]

Right, so having a read of search results scared the shat out of me a bit :S

How would i go about checking if my subframe or wishbones were bent?

J

 

[Martin_172]

full lazer geometry check should show up any issues with belt bottom arms/subframe.

it showed up immediately when Renault fitted mine back on properly and showed up on my mrs 1.6 16v when it had a bent bottom arm

 

[jinjur]

Hmm.....well I have had it laz0r3D twice now and they have pointed out iffy camber and castor......but they didn't scream "your car is bucked" at me.

If camber and castor is out, does this spell bendage?

A

 

[Beasley Clio182]

Silly question have you checked the tyre pressures ? If they are to high maybe making it floaty ! Also if you've had It laser tracked it would normally show up !

 

[jinjur]

Shat, sorry..not silly at all..that was the thing i meant to include but forgot as I see that as a biggie in this kind of situation.

Yes, tyre pressures are on the money as far as I understand. Sitting around 32 front and 30 rear.

J

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Scan your laser print out in and let me see it.

 

[jinjur]

I flipping left it at home. I only have the old one that was pre my suspension refresh so that probably wont help.

Ill do it early evening and drop it up here. really appreciate everyone input here.

I miss my feisty handling wee frog box

J

 

[Chip-mk1]

buckled wheel meaning that when they aligned it they got the values wrong? (ie on the printout they will look right but in reality arent?)

 

[jinjur]

Fair point Chip........i don't think so, but to prove it to myself (and you, cos i know you really do care man ) I will do a wee swapsie with the rear.

I have a spare 172 wheel in t'boot so if its that it could be a quick fix



thanks guys, keep em coming

A

 

[Chip-mk1]

It would only solve it if you swapped it then got it tracked again though mate, my point is if the wheel is buckled they will have got a misreading at the time they tracked it.

 

[jinjur]

Yes bud, sorry......bit thick on that one.

may do the jack it up and let wifey idle it in first to inspect for buckling. Would obv only see if it was big

 

[Tigger]

I thought you had the wishbone & ARB bushes done Andy, and were planning on the rack bushes?

I have all of the above to go onto mine, just need the time and someone who knows what they're at to tear into it
Only got as far as pressing my old bushes out so far apart from the oil change & repairing a broken arch liner

 

[jinjur]

I thought you had the wishbone & ARB bushes done Andy, and were planning on the rack bushes?

I have all of the above to go onto mine, just need the time and someone who knows what they're at to tear into it
Only got as far as pressing my old bushes out so far apart from the oil change & repairing a broken arch liner

No bud.....everything but those.

FYI....ANY work on this suspension is utter ****. ****

The inner track rods were a complete and utter s**te to do. :/

 

[Tigger]

Aye, and rear brakes....ask Cro about mine (and the angle grinder)

 

[jinjur]

hah.....i can imagine bud

J

 

[jinjur]

Hmm........something is amiss with wheel alignment results. :S

I am scanning it now and will upload asap

J

 

[jinjur]

Feb_Alignment - before any suspension work





Mar_Alignment - after shocks, top mounts, inner track rods, tre's, bottom ball joints


Why is the camber so borked after the NEW suspension is fitted when one side in Feb was within tolerance? :S

Why are the rear axle measurements so bad in Feb yet in march they are fine, when i did NOTHING to the back?

Hellllllllllllllllllp



J

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Is the car lowered?

 

[jinjur]

Not at all Michael

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Something's still telling me rack bushes.

We're all parts genuine?

 

[jinjur]

No mate.....the shocks were reno......top mounts/bearings were KYB......ball joints and tre's were lemforder and track rods were firstline.

A

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Reno or Renault?

 

[jinjur]

Renault.......sorry.

 

[Jeffie]

How did they adjust the rear toe/camber?

 

[Chip-mk1]

How did they adjust the rear toe/camber?

You cant, other than actually unbolting the whole lot and putting shims between the stub axle and the beam.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The fact the rear has changed so much (unless you have had a crash) proves to me that they arent getting accurate readings, Im convinced that the main thing wrong with your car is they have done the tracking wrong TBH.

I would take it somewhere else and get it tracked, after checking the wheels are straight.

Feb_Alignment - before any suspension work


View attachment 94735


Mar_Alignment - after shocks, top mounts, inner track rods, tre's, bottom ball joints

View attachment 94737
Why is the camber so borked after the NEW suspension is fitted when one side in Feb was within tolerance? :S

Why are the rear axle measurements so bad in Feb yet in march they are fine, when i did NOTHING to the back?

Hellllllllllllllllllp



J

 

[jinjur]

I understand bud.

Well, I looked at the passenger front left wheel and there is the very slightest wobble when its running free in first gear so I have put it on the back for now until i can get the tyre swapped onto the other wheel

Tempted to put the above charts to the company who did the tracking and ask for my money back......why should I pay for that?

J

 

[Chip-mk1]

Would be reasonable thing to do IMHO, nothing to lose by trying as lets face it you probably will not go back there again anyway. Although not really their fault if your wheels are buckled, so I wouldnt go being all shouty about it.

 

[jinjur]

Would be reasonable thing to do IMHO, nothing to lose by trying as lets face it you probably will not go back there again anyway. Although not really their fault if your wheels are buckled, so I wouldnt go being all shouty about it.

But would that have affected the crackerjack values on the rear and would such a small wobble affect this?

Just to be clear, the front face of the wheel doesn't move at all.

Its the inside lip at the back of the wheel where spokes dont live that has a bit of action.

A

 

[Chip-mk1]

But would that have affected the crackerjack values on the rear and would such a small wobble affect this?

Just to be clear, the front face of the wheel doesn't move at all.

Its the inside lip at the back of the wheel where spokes dont live that has a bit of action.

A

If the outer face is straight they should have no problems, sorry I meant *IF* it was buckles causing the issue its not really their fault, obviously ive not seen your wheels so cant comment, but its most likely one of 3 things:
Bucked wheels
User error
Damaged measuring equipment

 

[jinjur]

If the outer face is straight they should have no problems, sorry I meant *IF* it was buckles causing the issue its not really their fault, obviously ive not seen your wheels so cant comment, but its most likely one of 3 things:
Bucked wheels
User error
Damaged measuring equipment

you forgot bucked car bud :/

 

[Jeffie]

Sorry I just realised I was reading your printout wrong and the rear hadnt changed.

So -1.5 deg rear and -0.8 front is recommended camber?

 

[Chip-mk1]

you forgot bucked car bud :/

I was assuming the readings were right last time and it hasnt been crashed since.

 

[jinjur]

Hmm, they have offered to look at it and sort out the issue.

They are really nice chaps you know. I am just concerned in case something is bucked and all this alignment is worthless :/

A

 

[jinjur]

Right, just back from the tyre place.

They stuck it on the machine and spent a bit of time on it. They really are trying to help.

Car is still wandering. And the camber is still bucked :/

So, what am i left with? Something surely has to be bent if shocks were replaced and i have a camber issue, top mounts and bottom joints replaced too

Hub carrier?

Bottom arms?

Subframe?


​J

 

[jinjur]

Am I going to have to resort to camber bolts to fix this standard suspension setup or is that a pikey fix?

What would be the most likely candidate?

Could the KYB top mounts cause this?

That and the shocks are the ONLY thing that has been changed on both sides

​J

 

[MG cup]

Check you have a matching pair of bottom arms, ball joints and check the subframe. Other than that its bent hub (unlikely) or the front corner has been in a bash and not jigged right.

FYI a new strut won't and can't affect camber unless its like a banana which your going to notice pretty quick.