Cup - A future classic

[CUP80Y]

I heard that cars with links to motor racing ie homologation specials are prime candidates for becoming future classics.

What do peeps reckon, is it worth wrapping the Cup in cotton wool and dry storing it in the shady corner of an old barn? Or should I continue to cane it every day and run it into the ground?!!

 

[Viv172]

Get two, enjoy and cane one of them, wrap the other in bubble wrap....cant have it both ways with one car lol!!

BTW can some one please tell me what homologation means, sort of know, but not 100% sure...ta

 

[Essex_lads_bro]

lol!

I think they may be quite sort after in a few yrs time due to the sheer fact that there arent many of them!

And come a few yrs time its undoubtable that a good number would of been written off (Prays not mine lol)!

 

[Pete]

I dont think itll become a future classic, a williams yes but not a cup. Too many Cups have been made and there just wasnt the buzz a round them like there was with the Williams IMO.

 

[Iain C]

i think it will...Not the normal 172 tho

 

[Essex_lads_bro]

Yea but less Cups have been made than the Williams, havent they?

 

[Pete]

Im not sure on the figures, I just think that the Williams has something more about it as an individual car than the cup, the Cup is too close to the 172 and I agree with Iain the 172 def wont be a future classic as it and the Cup are about to be out done by the 182 and then 200bhp 2005 model.

 

[Roamer]

Nope I seriously doubt it will be a "future classic" what is its genuine racing heritage? is it a homologation special?????

 

[Essex_lads_bro]

Never know whats gonna happen in the future tho?!

There could be a great economic recession and this 2005 model could never be put into production lol!

Leaving the cup still at the top (besides the v6 of course lol)!

 

[JillyB]

Quote: Originally posted by Roamer on 16 January 2004

is it a homologation special?????

Partly, take the logation off the end of the word

p.s. this only applies to certain cup owners attitudes lately.

 

[CUP80Y]

LOL

Its all in the interests of debate, and probably arises because some of us are more enthusiastic about our cars and driving than others. 172 owners just wouldnt understand

The Cup is definately a Homologation special.

 

[Roamer]

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 16 January 2004


The Cup is definately a Homologation special.

Is it? what was it built for then? what race series did they need to build a road going version for, and why didnt they limit production to the minimum needed to enter that series?

 

[woodleadam]

The williams has become a classic favourite because it had something special for its time (tribute car). It was faster and better than most hot hatches of its time. It was a car that stood out for its era. The cup dosent have the same presence. Other hot hatches have equal or greater abilities. The cup is special because of its price, but as cars get older value drops and the price to buy a secondhand cup will no longer be 5k less than a type R or 9k less than an rs. The cup may become a rarety but not a classic. A williams can hold its own against cars 5 years newer than itself. It has a high desirability and that has stayed over time. A cup will most probally not hold its own against hot hatches 5 years in the future, because hot hatches are suddenly getting more and more powerful. People are more willing to spend more and more money on cars, so hot hatches are no longer a dream car but a possibilty for lots of people. I imagine lots of young people wanted a williams from new but couldnt afford it, but looking at the car market today the cup falls into a cheapish fast car.

 

[D-CUP]

It does have a bit of a classic status as people talk about it like a modern day 205 1.9gti.

I dont think theyll ever be worth a lot of money but theyll probably end up being worth more than same year 172s.

 

[KDF]

The Cup is a deffo no no as far as future classic goes, the V6 might be, the williams already is...

 

[Roamer]

Hot hatches are getting more powerful, but also more heavy too.... the Williams can hold its own against cars 10 YEARS younger than itself - I know - Ive got the video to prove it - eh Yoz?

 

[Lagerlout]

Dont know how much to read into this, but a couple of my friends who worked overseas came back and asked me what car I was driving.(they are not to up on cars btw) I said "Clio RenaultSport 172" one of my friends faces lit up and he said "Wow!! Is that a Clio Williams?". They had all heard of the Williams, but not of the 172 or the Cup, and none of them are really interested in cars!!!

Cups (and to a lesser extent 172s) will be sought after in a few years, and the Cups will hold a good market value, but a future classic it is not.

 

[Roamer]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 16 January 2004


Cups (and to a lesser extent 172s) will be sought after in a few years, and the Cups will hold a good market value, but a future classic it is not.

lol - yeah yeah, right and EVERYONE wants a blue cup heheheheeh

 

[James20VT]

Williams cars were used in the rally no? am i wrong? were cups used in a rally? as far as i was aware... the williams was built due too its racing technology of Williams F1 when willimas were with renault years ago..... hence why its a classic and such a good car... the mondial blue 172(Cup) is just a stripped out version of the road going 172, but with a wider track and no ABS? basically renault trying too make a williams out of a 172? it wont be a classic, its got no reason too be one?

 

[CUP80Y]

The Renault literature stated it as a homologation special as did a review I read in a magazine. I just assumed it was to enable them to compete in the Cup race series.

Originally they were only going to make 2500 which is the minimum for them to qualify, but then due to unexpected popularity they continued.

 

[Roamer]

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 16 January 2004


The Renault literature stated it as a homologation special as did a review I read in a magazine. I just assumed it was to enable them to compete in the Cup race series.

hehehe nope, as the cup racers are actually mk1 172 shells with mk2 kits on them - nothing at all to do with the 172 cup road car at all lol

 

[James20VT]

i thought the cup race series was just the name of the race league... not actual model of the car used

 

[JillyB]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 16 January 2004


Dont know how much to read into this, but a couple of my friends who worked overseas came back and asked me what car I was driving.(they are not to up on cars btw) I said "Clio RenaultSport 172" one of my friends faces lit up and he said "Wow!! Is that a Clio Williams?". They had all heard of the Williams, but not of the 172 or the Cup, and none of them are really interested in cars!!!

I agree with this, when im asked (by none car freak friends) what car I have I say for instance 2lt clio, their faces light up and they say williams and then look disapointed when i say no a 172 because theyve never heard of it.

 

[blink172]

Give it 10 years and the 172 and derivitives will be like the 1.9gtis. Not saying they are Worse/as good/better than each other! As said above in 10 years hundreds would have been scrapped, ditched, rolled, thrashed, modded and mint examples would be very much sort after. Consider that it keeps up with larger and bigger engined sports cars. Also it helps with the name "WILLIAMS", instantly makes you think, ah some F1 Sh1t in the car.

 

[Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Roamer on 16 January 2004

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 16 January 2004


The Renault literature stated it as a homologation special as did a review I read in a magazine. I just assumed it was to enable them to compete in the Cup race series.

hehehe nope, as the cup racers are actually mk1 172 shells with mk2 kits on them - nothing at all to do with the 172 cup road car at all lol






its been done to meet group n regs. the cup was built for homologation purposes.

Extracted from "Cup production ends" press release.

" Clio Renaultsport 172 Cup was homologated for Group N production car rallying using as its base the Clio Renaultsport 2.0 172."

Come on mate keep up.



That said i think the 172/CUP/182 will carry the same status as the 205gti and the Clio 16v do in years to come.

 

[Seedy]

In 2005 when the 200bhp version comes out i dont think it will be as good- ONLY because cars are getting bigger & safer & heavier It may well have 200bhp + but i bet it will have enough airbags to make a bouncy castle out of..yawn.. Get a thrill from driving, i know if i think i dont have all those safety features like airbags / abs ect it certainly focuses your driving more, i dont think abs makes any difference cos you should never get yourself into such a position where you say it saved you - more like bad judgement IMO...If the Cup was more stripped out Like the Pug 106 Rallye compared to the GTI then it would have been more raw. I know the Cup is 89kg lighter say the weight of an average bloke (who likes a few pints!) BUT its still Over 1 ton, My old 106 rallye from what i remember was close to or more than 100 kg lighter than the GTI, so it weighed (ithink) about 865kg.. Its power to weight. That car was great fun. The 1.3 rallye was just as poweful & lighter STILL i think power to weight was 121bhp per ton... Another example the Lotus elise.. give me bare metal doors insides & wind down windows anyday. People say their Cups dont have the 172s toys what? air con a bit of leather and some xenon lights, rear headrests, i never sit in the back! My Cup is like a luxury car compared to the old Rallye... Lose the weight. Personaly i think the pug 106/306 Rallye versions will be more classics than the CUP, but if you look at current residual values the Cup is holding resale value better than the normal 172 at the moment!!

 

[CUP80Y]

 

[007]

I think the Cup will have a great rep in the future but not a Classic. Its missing that something xtra. I dont know what as I havent driven one - dont know what Renault got right with the Willie handling - maybe its as people want more comfort these days - really the Cup should have been even more hardcore than it was IMO tho as it is a special edition. Lets the crusers buy 172s

It also doesnt really have road presence and joe bloggs would not tell it from a 1.4 Clio.

I still fancy a Cup as they are great great cars but IMO an oppertunity missed by Renault - another great hot hatch but could have been something even better.

Maybe they will come out with a Hardcore 182 Cup - but power isnt the issue or id buy a Something with a Turbo and raise the boost.

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 16 January 2004
The Renault literature stated it as a homologation special as did a review I read in a magazine. I just assumed it was to enable them to compete in the Cup race series.Originally they were only going to make 2500 which is the minimum for them to qualify, but then due to unexpected popularity they continued. 


Renault literature also stated they would be making race seats, rollbars, ecu, blah blah for the cup..

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

It WILL be a classic. End of. And Ive no axe to grind.

As will the MKII V6. I predict that the MKII V6 will not drop (on average) below £14k.

 

[Tom]

Based on what?

There have been plenty of cars that drive great, but are forgotten.

"Classic" is not something you simply tag a car with, it has to earn that right.

Explain to me how the cup will earn its status?

 

[jon_r]

Because I drive one.

wtf is the point of this thread. Basically the car might, and i stress might become a classic, you never know. From what i can see this thread is just a sl*gging match between a lot of disgruntled 172 owners whos car will NOT become a classic. definately. And i have respect for the 172.

OK, we all know there both cracking cars - but theyll never have the iconic status of the williams, purely because of the williams branding. That, along with the sucess the williams team were enjoying at the time made that particular car an instant classic.

If Reno had entitled the Cup (or 172 for that matter) the 172 Prost then things might have been very different. Lets face it, most people over here have never heard of Ragnotti.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

It fits the rules of "hot hatch-ness." It also represents one of the first of todays modern "stripped out" specials.

A lot is also down to just the fact that it captures peoples imaginations. The arrival of the 182 will assure it steady prices as well, IMO. I also think the MKI 172 will fare well.

I dont think the future will be as rosy for the MKII 172 or non-Cup-specced 182s.

 

[Tom]

But surely a cup is a 172 with a trim change, and bits missing.

Its not a revolution in hot hatches like the williams was/is

its simply a slightly better 172.

PS as i keep saying the sports suspension option on the 182 has nothing to do with the 172cup.

 

[jon_r]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 16 January 2004


But surely a cup is a 172 with a trim change, and bits missing.

Its not a revolution in hot hatches like the williams was/is

its simply a slightly better 172.





Yes we all know its a slightly better 172, but its not about that - its about the whole package.

At the end of the day, its just my opinion, but only time can really tell.

TBH the williams is still just a clio to 99% of the population.

Yet 99% of the population know what a ferrari is.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio182 on 16 January 2004


Its not a revolution in hot hatches like the williams was/is

its simply a slightly better 172.

But that was just a 1.8 16v with a bit more torque and some chassis mods, by the same token. And I thought the 182 could be specced with Cup geometry?

 

[jon_r]

its called that, but its not.

 

[Tom]

No the 182 damping, geometry, track, wheelbase, and ride hight are diffrent to the cup. (but thats off topic)

Willams = 16v with a bit more torque? No mate.

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

Certainly by the same logic as Cup=re-trimmed 172. Which it isnt.

 

[Tom]

What is it then?