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DCI chip or tuning box



D

DirtyDiesel



Hi to everyone, I spotted this board last week and decided to register.

Anyway, i drive a clio 1,5dci (65hp of course) and need to improvr the performance.

Ive got an intercooler on order from forge motorsport and am considering a chip, remap or tuning box.

Does anyone have any experince with the above. Opinions would be much appreciated.

I do feel slightly cheated paying £400 for a superchip which is essentially a 50pence eprom. I have the facilities to programme eproms so im tempted to copy an existing progrmme of an existing chip but im unsure about the legality of this.
 
C

Cj/Denmark



Be aware!! Because it is so easy to chip a modern turbo diesel lots of people do a very bad job. Preferably go for one that uses a rolling road in the process, making a tailor made chip for the specific car.



Or, if you want to keep the warranty, use a box instead. Some boxes actually give approximately the same gain, without the smoke etc. (the ones that uses a potentiometer can alter the pressure on the common rail bar - a chip cant do that).

Cheers,



CJ
 
E

edde



I have no idea what intercooler your using as forge dont do a clio intercooler but I guess it will be better than the renault one. The intercooler wont do much in my opinion u will probably need to get a bigger fuel pump and a new fuel map made to get the best out of the intercooler.

As you probably know the 80hp clio has bigger injector pump and an intercooler a new fuel map and a dump valve (not to sure about the last one though as a diesel dont need one). Chipping one of these engines gives 105hp (180lb torque) so with a better intercooler you should get about 110 hp and 190lb of torque.

I cannot see how an of the shelf chip with the mods u will have done to the engine will benifit it as much as a properly designed map for ur car.

Im not sure how good the Renault gearbox and exhaust will be at the power level u will be running at and I guess the map may have to be limited to stop problems occuring. The exhause should be ok upto about 100hp but above that i have no idea how it will stand up or restrict ur potential power.

Dont forget to tell us how u get on fititng the intercooler though.

I belive http://www.motorsports-development.co.ukwww.motorsports-development.co.uk do custom mapsfor about £400.

I feel a chip is a much beter thing to buy than a tuning box as its a new map not just a increase although they are easler to remove for warenty work on your car. However your cars intercooler wont be to easy to remove will it? so maybe it wont matter as your warently isnt any use anyway.
 
Swervin_Mervin

Swervin_Mervin

  The Jinx


Im going for a tunit later this year from Bromleys. They plug it in to their lap top to tune it to YOUR engine (since each one is slightly different) whilst you drive it on the roads, thus getting the best tune for your driving style. Then they rolling road it.

All for £435. Diesel car use them a lot (seems like every month).

I take it youve been to their site and read "what the papers say?"
 
E

edde



What I understand it to be is as follows

Your car has a computer chip which stores the fulling map or set of instuctions for how much fuel should be injected into the engine at a set amoutn of revs. The chip will only allow that much fuel into the engine for the applicable revs. The amount of fuel injected also depends upon the amount of accelerator that you are using ie foot to the floor at 2000rpm send the instuctions to the computer chip which gives you 100% of the allowed fuel flow accoriding to the map. If you only put your foot 1/2 the way down the computer would then only allow 1/2 the maximum amount of fuel allowed for the revs.

Diesel tunning boxes are connected to the engines common rail injectors and tell the injectors to stay open longer than they would normally (no idea how exactly though) this increases the amount of fuel in the cycles and so increases power.

Diesel Chipping companies remap your computer. This means that your originaly stored fueling map or instructions for how much fuel can be used at the particular revs is changed hence more power as more fuel is being burnt.

Im sure chipping the car is better for some other reason but cannot remember thm of the top of my head. Tunning boxes have the advantage of easy quick removal though.

Someone is bound to correct me though hopefully I have got something here right.
 
E

edde



I dont think there is any way of doing it

Possible you could make some sort of PIC microporcessor which could recognise when the injectors were open and kepp them open for a very short time the same as a tunning box does.

However I believe a better idea whould be to ty and get hold of a tunning box and a they must use some sort of microprocessor tyr and reverse engineer there software and make your own copy and burn it o ur own chip.

Very difficult in my opinion but sound like a very fun.

However i think the best way to get more powereconomically it to drop a larger engine in there. the Megans 1.9 120hp with its gearbox. It will be more poweful than any 1.5 dci engine will be and it will be less stress. I guess it would cost about £1500 to get the engine installed by someone. The engine would probably cost about £1000 so for £2500 you could have 120hp and 199lb which would cost almost the same as a tunned up 1.5dci.
 
D

DirtyDiesel



yeah ive thought about an engine conversion but cost is my main barrier, ive only got around £800 to spend

if i could get hold of a dci superchip i could create a new one in about 10 minutes for the princely sum of 50 pence.

so, anyone got a spare they could lend me?
 
P

Padso

ClioSport Club Member
  Merc


How do you fit the intercooler to the 1.5dci 65? where abouts does it connect to?
 
P

Padso

ClioSport Club Member
  Merc


How do you fit the intercooler to the 1.5dci 65? where abouts does it connect to?
 
D

DirtyDiesel



i havent got the intercooler yet .

im gonna fit it behind the front lower grill, infront of the radiator. The pipework runs from the compressor side of the turbo into the intercooler, out and back into the engine. The turbo is located at the back of the engine underneath the standard airbox.

Ive tried increasing the boost pressure by undoing the nut and moving it 1-2mm back on the wastegate actuator rod. This had no net result whatsoever so the boost must be electronically controlled (i think)
 
C

Cj/Denmark



More fuel doesnt necessarily equal more power. Its the amount of air in the cylinder ("the number of air molecules") that decides how much fuel you can burn up -> how much power you get. A gain can be made of simply adding more fuel, but the best way is - all things being equal - to increase the amount of air.

A chip often raises the turbo pressure, making for a bit more lag but a lot more power (on turbo engines that is..), because of the extra amount of air compressed into the cylinder combined with more fuel under full throttle.

The boxes work in many different ways. Some of them make the injectors stay open for longer combined with a "longer injection time" - those are the ones installed directly on the injectors. More power because of more fuel in the cylinder

Others work in the way that a potentiometer tricks the engine management system to raise the pressure in the common rail system (from 1,500 bar to app. 1,600 for example) making for a more atomized fuel/air mix -> more power in a more precise combustion (in theory).

All solutions do have their drawbacks, and there is no single answer to the question of which mod to chose.. Good luck

-CJ
 
P

Padso

ClioSport Club Member
  Merc


is the compressor side of the turbo not made of metal? So are you going to have to get a new way of conecting it to the intercooler or is it more straight forward than im thinking of?
 
P

Padso

ClioSport Club Member
  Merc


Yeah dirty diesel they re big over here in n Ireland but they only put the dci65 up to 80 hp
 
Swervin_Mervin

Swervin_Mervin

  The Jinx


All the same from what Ive researched so far. Approx. 20bhp increase.

Would a 1.9 not be a bit lardy for the front end of a clio?
 
C

Cj/Denmark



Im getting a box from FGA Motorsport soon - cant wait to get it installed!

Concerning bhp gains it varies a bit. Usually a chip gives the most in terms of top end bhp, but what should be taken into account is also that the "chippers" usually do the measurements themselves. And they are not all totally honest. Dyno results can (according to scientific measurements) vary up to app. 10% so it is a bit difficult to come to a bullet-proof conclusion.

I have done a bit of work for the Danish importer of the Power System box (well, talked french with the French, basically) and have therefor seen a bit of results from 1/4 mile runs etc. . Often the difference is rather small between boxes (in general) and chips (in general). But, of course, a chip should, theoretically, give more bhp and torque than a box, all things being equal.

-CJ
 
E

edde



mike8579 the clio used to have a 1.9 in it even in the new chap clios i dont know if they were ever sold in britain with the 1.9 but i know they were sold in France so i dont think there will be a weight problem. Dont forght that the 1.5dci clio weights only 65kg less than the 1.9 120hp version. If u move the battery to the rear that should make up about 20kg so its oly like having someone who weighs 50kg sitting on the bonnet.

Someone on this forum has tunned there 65hp clio I belive it may be thedaddy. He also had a different more free flowing exhaust I believe as part of the tunning package which gave his engine 90hp.

Tnning boxs for the 65hp clio wont be that much differnt as there is only so much you fuel you can inject into the engine from the stock injectors before you get more and more soot out of the exhaust or the fuel pump is at 100% power.

Get the more powerful pump and an intercooler and then chip it and u must be pushing 110hp maybe more and 190lb torque

I guess 80 hp is the best a normal 65hp pump can handle otherwise the 80hp clio would have the same fuel pump.
 
C

Cj/Denmark



Oh, and to answer your question about the box: The ones that raise the pressure in the common rail system seems to give a bit more bhp. But, if you are installing an IC, a chip would probably give better and more precise gain - all things being equal..

-CJ
 
Swervin_Mervin

Swervin_Mervin

  The Jinx


Check this thread mate on evo

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=evogen&Number=436973&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=1&part=2#Post437121http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=evogen&Number=436973&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=1&part=2#Post437121

Ignore the banter and theres some good techy info on there from a couple of guys that work with engines everyday.

Ive now changed my mind and am going the filter and re-map route I think. Now I just need to find out some reputable companies that dont exaggerate your gains when you RR it.
 
D

DirtyDiesel



well mate, ive found one place called powerline in shipley(near bradford)

i visited the place and it seems pretty good, im just getting a quote for remapping work.
 
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