Do you class 1*2s as "hothatches"

[FlameR]

It's becoming more and more apparent that for a car to be classed as a hot hatch these days it needs to be 220 bhp + and turbo charged and easily tunable. For me, the likes of the 1*2s, 206 GTis, saxo VTS etc, aren't hot hatches anymore. It's a shame. I'm going to write to Renault and request a 197 with a meggy 225 lump :evil:

What are your thoughts?

 

[cat171]

I'd say that they are tbh.

 

[Diesel_Power]

Of course its a hot hatch, anyone who thinks power = hot hatch or not shouldnt be taken seriously.

 

[Benbosh]

Yeah id say so.... even with newer cars coming out with more power the 1*2's are still capable and proven cars with a decent amount of power.
Ben

 

[Wards]

off course, they always will be 2.

 

[AlexS]

Yes.
I would class a Panda 100hp as a hot hatch, the original golf gti didn't have mega power and nor did the 205 gti and they are still regarded quite highly as some of the best hot hatches of all time, the same can be said for the 106 gti/ saxo vts.

 

[FlameR]

I think it's the remapping too though. the new cupra r will pump out 300 bhp post remap. Thats mad. you'd be lucky to get about 5 bhp off an NA car such as a 1*2

 

[ianeire]

They are of course.

I was on a Hoon in Ireland a forthnight ago with mine, four elises, two vx220s, golf r32's & gti's and the Lotus owners in particular found that they got very little change out of my ph1 172.

Fun is not in a straight line.

 

[Dillsy]

Its a small hatchback that will do 0-60mph in sub 7 seconds with no mods and handles well - I'd say thats pretty hot myself

 

[brisa4984]

i see what your saying lad. With the 200 + bhp cars the clio etc is fast becoming a "SUPERMINI" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....

 

[fmp_]

defo hot hatches.

i think its more the ethos of a car, than raw power figures etc.

as if it was the case, all previous hot hatches would no longer be hot hatches, which is totally insane!

And also the fact being, many new hot hatches are no quicker than the cars they replace (197 vs 182 for example, new CTR vs old CTR etc)

 

[R3OBC]

the problem is, everything is being polluted by BHP figures these days!! I have a hoot every day in my Berlingo van...... no ABS, Skinny tyres, No power, but just keeping the momentum going and the thing on the road when its wet - reminds you that you are driving lol!!! Power corrupts - its all about the balance, making the most of what it has, and enjoying yourself in the process! Bring back my 1.2!!!

 

[FlameR]

Maybe hothatch is just a fairly broad spectrum. I would say an R26 is superior to a 1*2 or 197, yet they are all classed as hot hatches.

 

[TeZ]

Re: Do you class 1*2s as "hothatches"



YeS

 

[Benbosh]

I see you point with regaurds to other cars that are easily mapable though. But hey where's the fun in that?? lol and i mean 300 bhp isnt really usuable power tbh is it? id say max 230 bhp in a hot hatch is more than enough (Front wheel drive)

 

[JON13S]

think the term has lost its meaning! all about image stioll bit in a different way nowdays! all these new big cars are heavy so need the power and the big wide tyres! bring back the old gti'S I say

golfs 205 and the willy clio! keep it simple much more of a driving experience!

 

[FlameR]

I see you point with regaurds to other cars that are easily mapable though. But hey where's the fun in that?? lol and i mean 300 bhp isnt really usuable power tbh is it? id say max 230 bhp in a hot hatch is more than enough (Front wheel drive)

yeah definitely, if I wanted a 300bhp car I would get an AWD jap turbo. Its similar to the scenario of the german exec saloons, they are now pushing ridiculous bhp figures in a bid to out power one another.

 

[Timmay]

i still consider em hot hatches

 

[John D]

What are your thoughts?

You are talking b****cks.

Of course a 1*2 is a hot hatch. You're talking about cars like the Astra VXR or Focus ST with 220bhp plus - so what? They're so heavy a 1*2 has similar or better power to weight anyway.

 

[Chili Red]

Well if 182s, 206 GTIs, MCSs and VTSs etc aren't hot hatches, what exactly IS?

 

[Benbosh]

I see you point with regaurds to other cars that are easily mapable though. But hey where's the fun in that?? lol and i mean 300 bhp isnt really usuable power tbh is it? id say max 230 bhp in a hot hatch is more than enough (Front wheel drive)

yeah definitely, if I wanted a 300bhp car I would get an AWD jap turbo. Its similar to the scenario of the german exec saloons, they are now pushing ridiculous bhp figures in a bid to out power one another.

Yep every manufacturer are trying to out do each over with power figures etc etc,
Not real cars that you feel you are driving i had a series 2 106 rallye now that only had about 110 bhp but how much fun was that to drive!!!! same as my 205 gti (1.9) great cars but the way manufacturers are going i dont think anything like them will be made. Unfortunate but thats the way its going.

 

[E-ray_172]

Hot hatches arnt just about acceleration.
more about its chukabilty imo.

A vts has 120bhp and it will get around a track same time or even quicker then a type-R or 172.

 

[Christopher]

the problem is, everything is being polluted by BHP figures these days!! I have a hoot every day in my Berlingo van...... no ABS, Skinny tyres, No power, but just keeping the momentum going and the thing on the road when its wet - reminds you that you are driving lol!!! Power corrupts - its all about the balance, making the most of what it has, and enjoying yourself in the process! Bring back my 1.2!!!

that's what driving a VTEC barge does for you Scottish!!

i had as much fun, if not more in my 1.2 as i do my 182, as you said, it's all about momentum! i used to cane it endlessly too! lol

 

[Ian_182]

They are hot hatches,however with the size and shapes of some of the new golfs and focus's it wont be long before they are saloons

 

[R3OBC]

Chris, im sorry to keep going back to it, but the days of the 1.2's with 'US LOT' was indeed amazing times!!!

 

[Leeshez]

I do yes.

 

[_Kenny_]

me too

 

[xcore]

what else would they be known as? performance car?FLOL

 

[Shindig]

yes they are hot hatches and there a different leagues of hot hatches!

 

[Graham Gooch]

Power to weight.

People are dumb if they take power at face value.

Numbers are just pub talk. A 100bhp caterham will smoke most hot hatches, so how does that fit in with your little theory.

 

[rory182]

The last of the traditional hot hatches, the cup especially so without any creature comforts.

Hot hatches of today / tomorrow aren't what I'd consider hot hatches, they've grown up and are a lot more refined e.g. the R27 a very capable car bigger and more stable under braking etc using the chassis of a larger car. Not quite the same as the old gti's of yesteryear.

 

[Turkish]

Numbers are just pub talk. A 100bhp caterham will smoke most hot hatches, so how does that fit in with your little theory.

Ain't that the truth! A mate of a mate of mine used to bang on about his 215bhp UK scoob like it was a full on WRC car. The constant pisstaking that my old 172 only had 170ish bhp didn't die off despite me trying to explain to him his extra bhp had to cover the weight difference, extra diff and transfer box (not to mention his s**t driving). Oddly enough he didn't talk about cars again after I spotted him out on the road and handed him his ass.

 

[R3OBC]

Exactly Rory.........the feeling of possible death is half the fun lol

 

[MarkCup]

the problem is, everything is being polluted by BHP figures these days!! I have a hoot every day in my Berlingo van...... no ABS, Skinny tyres, No power, but just keeping the momentum going and the thing on the road when its wet - reminds you that you are driving lol!!! Power corrupts - its all about the balance, making the most of what it has, and enjoying yourself in the process! Bring back my 1.2!!!

Amen.

Power to weight.

People are dumb if they take power at face value.

Numbers are just pub talk. A 100bhp caterham will smoke most hot hatches, so how does that fit in with your little theory.

So true.

I don't think the modern generation of cars like the VXr, Focus ST, R32, S3 etc. can call themselves hot hatches; generally speaking they're overweight, overpowered family cars, designed to be safe, friendly, and rapid in a straight line.

HOOLIGAN - that's what a hot hatch should be.

 

[Iridium]

Of course they are.

Dan

 

[John D]

A 100bhp caterham will smoke most hot hatches, so how does that fit in with your little theory.

Caterhams don't have hatch backs

 

[John D]

HOOLIGAN - that's what a hot hatch should be.

Amen to that!

 

[Graham Gooch]

A 100bhp caterham will smoke most hot hatches, so how does that fit in with your little theory.

Caterhams don't have hatch backs

Shh!

 

[Marky_]

Yes. Just like an xr2 is still a hothatch. Just because new cars come out doesn't change the category of older ones.

 

[lasbazrre]

The new breed of hot hatches are more grown up and weigh more, but you also get more power , better brakes , better safety, better build, and in some case's just as good a handling car as the CLASSIC hot hatch !

Some would say the whole ethos of the hot hatch is being diluted, but it's just progress, they may not be as much fun , but thats where tuning comes into play, and the new turbo breed are far better for that! Lol

leon