I would say yes, particularly the 172 cup in what I personally see as a hot hatch. Imo there aren't many cars in production now that I would class as a hot hatch in what I would like to see as too many of them are too big/heavy and not as much fun as a more traditional hot hatch like a 205, mk1 clio, 106 etc.
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Do you class 1*2s as "hothatches"
- Thread starter FlameR
- Start date
Gaz_
ClioSport Club Member
Extreme mode
Exactly. One of the best in modern times, yet, it always gets bashed for being s**t/too slow :S I really do think alot of people don't 'get' what a hot hatch is all about.
brisa4984
ClioSport Club Member
its actually slower "round a track".
brisa4984
ClioSport Club Member
no but the clio owns it both in the twisties and in the straights..
It's a bit of a lable, how many bhp or fancy toys it has has little to do with it as far as I'm concerned.
I think the clio 172 and 182 are hot hatches but I always smile when I hear about the new wave of hot 'hatches'. seeing as how most new hatch backs are like the size of oil tankers compaired to, say, a mk1 Golf GTi.
I think the way a car handles and performs is only part of what makes it a hot hatch, there is a difficult to define spirit to a true hot hatch, in the same way as a muscle-car or sports-car or super-car is a certain 'type' of vehicle.
I think the clio 172 and 182 are hot hatches but I always smile when I hear about the new wave of hot 'hatches'. seeing as how most new hatch backs are like the size of oil tankers compaired to, say, a mk1 Golf GTi.
I think the way a car handles and performs is only part of what makes it a hot hatch, there is a difficult to define spirit to a true hot hatch, in the same way as a muscle-car or sports-car or super-car is a certain 'type' of vehicle.
WTF does the power output have to do with anything? Surely the handling/praticality/performance make a hot hatch, not the pub bragging numbers under the hood?
If anything I would say the newer cars are further from a hot hatch than the 172s/1.8s/VTS/GTi etc of days gone by(!).
When we start looking for a new car we will be more interested in the so-called 'warm hatches' these days, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp and forthcoming Twingo models. They seem to have an emphasis on dynamics and fun more-so than the £18-20k 200bhp+ monsters.
When we start looking for a new car we will be more interested in the so-called 'warm hatches' these days, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp and forthcoming Twingo models. They seem to have an emphasis on dynamics and fun more-so than the £18-20k 200bhp+ monsters.
no i think its more like this -
Race driver in vts 'V' Race driver in 172/type R = 172/type R wins
AVG driver in vts 'V' AVG driver in 172/type R = you would do better in a vts.
Conclusion = unless you know what your doing it dont matter if you have a 180bhp or 110bhp, there is so many other factors to think about.
Steve
ClioSport Club Member
ST3 8.5
Maybe if you all stopped polishing & got your cars on a track you would see what a bargain they are.
Was looking at getting a honda S2000, but after the trophy wasted one at donington won't be doing that.
Round the twisties from redgate to the double apex corner before the straight the clio was on fire, just needs more power down the straights.
Was looking at getting a honda S2000, but after the trophy wasted one at donington won't be doing that.
Round the twisties from redgate to the double apex corner before the straight the clio was on fire, just needs more power down the straights.
Last edited:
106 GTi
Amen lads - If a 1*2 is not a hot hatch please tell me what is ? I thought this thread was some kind of piss take ?
The Trophy beat an S2000, or the driver of the Trophy beat another driver who happened to be in an S2000. There's a big difference really
My Focus ST is circa 300bhp and perfectly useable everyday :rasp:
Agreed, a well driven S2000 would only see a well driven Clio in it's rear view mirror.
The Trophy beat an S2000, or the driver of the Trophy beat another driver who happened to be in an S2000. There's a big difference really
Lol, I have to agree that there isn't a specific limit for a front wheel drive car. The 230bhp figure has been said by so many people ever since JC mentioned on top gear that he though that was the limit for a front wheel drive car.
Hondata'd EP3 Type R
wetehr its got 220bhp or not, it performs as well if not better than these higher power rivals.
A True hot hatch imo.
This might just be me, But I'd always class a hot hatch as N/A.
A True hot hatch imo.
This might just be me, But I'd always class a hot hatch as N/A.
RS6+ & 40d MSport X5
Mondeo TXS Bardge.
what was the definition of the hot hoatch when the word was conceived.
a special edition fast hatch back car
back then all hatch backs were small, eg golfs fiestas, 205s, and relatively slow so you strap a 1.6 to one and it would be a rocket ship compaired to a standard one, or even a bigger saloon.
back then the cars were small, medium or large. hatch, saloon, estate, golf, escort volvo boat.
not we have super mini, small family, family, largefamily exceutive people carrier. etc etc.
renault have what 8 cars int he range all with different markets.
if you apply what the formula was when it was born, hatch back and fast then a range rover sport would be a hot hatch or a mondeo ST200, monaro VXR.
so the 1*2, willy, valver are all hot hatches, id say even the 1.6 rxe is a hot hatch.
the modern day ones are just that modern day ones, despite being biger and more powerfull they still have the formula fast hatch back diffferent from the standard.
i was a idiot when i was born 20 years later, i'm bigger and stronger, and i'm still an idiot.
a special edition fast hatch back car
back then all hatch backs were small, eg golfs fiestas, 205s, and relatively slow so you strap a 1.6 to one and it would be a rocket ship compaired to a standard one, or even a bigger saloon.
back then the cars were small, medium or large. hatch, saloon, estate, golf, escort volvo boat.
not we have super mini, small family, family, largefamily exceutive people carrier. etc etc.
renault have what 8 cars int he range all with different markets.
if you apply what the formula was when it was born, hatch back and fast then a range rover sport would be a hot hatch or a mondeo ST200, monaro VXR.
so the 1*2, willy, valver are all hot hatches, id say even the 1.6 rxe is a hot hatch.
the modern day ones are just that modern day ones, despite being biger and more powerfull they still have the formula fast hatch back diffferent from the standard.
i was a idiot when i was born 20 years later, i'm bigger and stronger, and i'm still an idiot.
^^^^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^^^^^^^
The day's of the LIGHT chuchable hatches are gone , cars are getting heavier!
In the hot hatch market theres always been a two class system , for every 106 gti theres a 306 gti 6, xr2 theres xr3i or rs turbo , some would say not strictly hot hatches , but the choice of something bigger, faster has always been there!
The 1*2 is a hot hatch and will be a futre classic!
leon
The day's of the LIGHT chuchable hatches are gone , cars are getting heavier!
In the hot hatch market theres always been a two class system , for every 106 gti theres a 306 gti 6, xr2 theres xr3i or rs turbo , some would say not strictly hot hatches , but the choice of something bigger, faster has always been there!
The 1*2 is a hot hatch and will be a futre classic!
leon
How could you forget the Renault 5 GT Turbo!! They define hot hatch imo.
Black-Gold 182
Just gonna throw a spanner in the works.
1*2s are classed as "warm hatches" as they don't have the same power as some of the bigger cars (This is not my view, but hey). Focus, Golf, Meggy are your "hot" hatches.
1*2s are classed as "warm hatches" as they don't have the same power as some of the bigger cars (This is not my view, but hey). Focus, Golf, Meggy are your "hot" hatches.
Ultra Red Megane 175
I would say that a VTR / Zetec-S = "Warm Hatch"
Not in the same league as the 172/182/CTR/VTS etc, all of which I would describe as "Hot Hatches".
I would agree that the Focus ST et al would be classed as high powered family cars.
Nah, b****cks lol.
Putt all four cars down a snaking b-road ( a traditional hot hatch hunting ground) and see the difference between your 'hot hatches' and the 'warm' clio lol.
182 is a hot hatch end off.
Thread locked lol.
brisa4984
ClioSport Club Member
^lol
i believe 230 ish bhp is probably going to be the most usable power you will need in a front wheel drive car such as a 172 cup.
Former R27 & Mk1 V6 owner
You have to remember though, suspension and tyres have come a long way since big power FWD cars were first invented. Also, on the point of things like 300bhp Focus STs, most of them don't make 300bhg till you're in 4th gear and above (referring to conversions such as the Wolf 300) because of the traction issues in lower gears.
http://www.archersofashby.co.uk/New_Focus_2005/Focus_ST/Wolf/WR300/home_wr300.htm
For when people suggest I'm talking s**t
The Courtenay and the like conversions for the VXR cars are the same as well.
And to say a Golf GTi is a hot hatch and a 182 isn't is just daft. The Golf only has 15 more bhp... Warm hatches are stuff like the pitiful Fiesta ST (sorry I drove one the other day and I'm still irritated with how slow it was and how good it could have been!)
Dan
http://www.archersofashby.co.uk/New_Focus_2005/Focus_ST/Wolf/WR300/home_wr300.htm
For when people suggest I'm talking s**t
The Courtenay and the like conversions for the VXR cars are the same as well.
And to say a Golf GTi is a hot hatch and a 182 isn't is just daft. The Golf only has 15 more bhp... Warm hatches are stuff like the pitiful Fiesta ST (sorry I drove one the other day and I'm still irritated with how slow it was and how good it could have been!)
Dan
