Does your epas setup do this??

[Usr117063]

Wheels on the ground, power on, engine off and set to max assistance, the steering starts off light then gets really heavy, then patches of lightness. I have 2 columns, one is easier to turn by hand the the other quite stiff, they have different colours, one green and the other blue. I changed over to the stiff one to see if it was different which it was the heavy steering started sooner.

Also the epas columns seem to move under load as if its not secured enough in the bracket?

Its worked very well but recent problem with rack Im 'finding' other problems perhaps in my mind but I just want it to be how it was when new!

 

[Usr117063]

So I’ve had a swap round now of each column and the blue is the more powerful column, the green will lose assistance quite quickly after turning the wheel, this was while stationary with engine on. Since I’m using the kit to control assistance I’m not sure the ecu matters as as it’s the green label one, I’m going to have a look on eBay for different ones and see if I can pick something up cheap to try and for spares.

 

[GrahamS]

All of the ECUs and columns are the same as far as I know with colouring not representing anything specific.

Are you using a looped or DCI rack? I have come across this on a looped rack before where the fluid hasn't been drained properly and it was being force through the valve. If you leave the steering when it gets heavy, does it go light again after a few seconds? This would indicate the fluid pressure has gone down and the rack needs draining properly.. On a dci rack mine is very heavy one side and this is definitely down to the column.

 

[Usr117063]

Its a quick rack in the standard hpas casing, filled with grease, this is how it came (brt motorsport) Ive just rebuilt it and filled it again with the same grease, basically it looks like murder scene in my shed as the grease is red and I used a couple litres worth

Which side is heavy? Think mine is similar.

There was a big difference with how easy or not it was to to turn the columns by hand (off the car).. So not sure if one is more worn or not but the lighter one to turn felt better in the car

 

[scruffydubber]

I'm running epas with the same quick rack. I haven't experienced any problems.

A couple of litres of grease sounds far to excessive.

 

[Usr117063]

I'm running epas with the same quick rack. I haven't experienced any problems.

A couple of litres of grease sounds far to excessive.

It wasnt 2 litres mate I was joking I had a seal fail so when I re assembled it I just went overboard to make sure it was properly lubricated.

So if you were to turn the wheel with wheels on the ground it would be consistent weight to the wheel?

I had to go out to get food so had a go in the car and steering was okay, things seemed solid and no play or clunks. I just feel the steerings heavier than it was when I first installed it. When reversing into my sloped drive it loses nearly all assistance

 

[scruffydubber]

So if you were to turn the wheel with wheels on the ground it would be consistent weight to the wheel?

Yeah its constant. When I first switch the car on the steering is heavy for a split second, almost like the epas takes a second to wake up. Apart from that it's constant,

You can change the preload on a bush that's applied to the rack (I'm not sure what it's called) could that be wound to far in? I have a video on max assist with the car on the ground.

 

[Usr117063]

Ive been thinking about the preload yes, its harder to turn the rack than a standard hpas rack Ive tried. I was having a read about the pinion pre load but not sure if there is a specific torque that it should be set to (how much it is to to turn the pinion) Because I dont want to slacken it off and it be another thing I have to revert back.

 

[Usr117063]

Yeah its constant. When I first switch the car on the steering is heavy for a split second, almost like the epas takes a second to wake up. Apart from that it's constant,

You can change the preload on a bush that's applied to the rack (I'm not sure what it's called) could that be wound to far in? I have a video on max assist with the car on the ground.

If you could link that video that would be of great help.

 

[scruffydubber]

Center to lock, full assist, on the ground.

 

[Usr117063]

Center to lock, full assist, on the ground.

Wow thats light.. Thanks for posting. I know for a fact theres something going on with mine, Im going to take the rack off tomorrow to have a play with the pre load, or Ill order some tools to measure the torque then do it, Ive got a few things to do on the car so will be busy!

 

[scruffydubber]

Ive been thinking about the preload yes, its harder to turn the rack than a standard hpas rack Ive tried. I was having a read about the pinion pre load but not sure if there is a specific torque that it should be set to (how much it is to to turn the pinion) Because I dont want to slacken it off and it be another thing I have to revert back.

That's interesting, I would think it should be always easier than a hpas rack as there's no fluid or piston.

When I initially built mine I wasn't happy with the preload so reduced it. It's been great since

 

[Usr117063]

Also since since doing the end seal in the rack, Ive put a good amount of force on the pinion and the drivers side inner tie rod and theres zero play that I can feel, when the seal went it was obvious.

 

[scruffydubber]

Wow thats light.. Thanks for posting. I know for a fact theres something going on with mine, Im going to take the rack off tomorrow to have a play with the pre load, or Ill order some tools to measure the torque then do it, Ive got a few things to do on the car so will be busy!

Actually I have a video with it off the ground but no epas. Full manual. It light being off the ground, but might help you. Let me find it.

 

[Usr117063]

That's interesting, I would think it should be always easier than a hpas rack as there's no fluid or piston.

When I initially built mine I wasn't happy with the preload so reduced it. It's been great since

You see I initially thought it was okay as I have a fair amount of self centering that I know people complain about with epas. But there was this firmness in the first 10 deg of turning or so which there was no self centering. Now thats changed, Im not sure whats going.. Posts like yours help me realise Im not going mad and there is in fact a problem!

 

[scruffydubber]

I've also read about the vague center, self centering with epas. I wondered if the quick rack helps eliminate this because it has a higher ratio.

I only went to epas after the quick rack, I now wish I had done it sooner. Video uploading.

 

[scruffydubber]

Car in the air, full manual column.

 

[Usr117063]

lol yup that seems way easier than mine, unless you have iron like finger strength?

 

[Usr117063]

Exactly what I think about the quick rack with the epas, combined with increase caster.. The wheel snaps out of your hand if you let go of it, tons of feedback.

 

[scruffydubber]

I installed mine around February, it's done one track day but not a lot of road miles. Doesn't seem to have any play.

Good luck

 

[Usr117063]

Thanks mate, will get the rack out tomorrow and have a look, ive taken the rack out too many times this week so am well up to speed on the job.

 

[Usr117063]

Slackened off the adjuster by 1 full turn, I reckon I could go another half a turn but want to do things in increments. Still a bit of weight in the wheel thats with wheels in the air full assistance so somethings not right. As have to take rack out every time to adjust will do it again tomorrow as too late to use impact now, not doing the bottom bolts manually!
I reckon column is not of full health as well, like Graham said about one side is heavier to turn, mine happens to the right. I read this also on another site that can possibly refurb the column.

 

[scruffydubber]

Thinking about it, i played around with mine on the bench adjusting it and using a spanner/adjustable on the column input shaft to get a feel for it before fitting.

 

[Usr117063]

Trying to take apart the spare column, I have no 27mm socket It didnt work anyway, unless its a reverse thread the nut is done mega FT

Ive been learning whats inside the columns and the 'worm gears' which I read can be a problem, basically I took the motor out and 2 bolts that hold the gear casing on but its still attached to the shaft with the 27mm nut and it spins freely, so its not the motor its the gears or seals inside. This one I was trying to open is the one very hard to turn, the one on the car is easier but still hard, but its very noisy and clunky so I know something is wrong. When the socket I ordered arrived Ill have a proper look at how it works and see if theres an obvious fault. I also read that you shouldnt turn the column with the ignition off, because the worm gears dont want to move or something and it causes wear?

 

[Eddie555]

AFAIK.. The gears inside that motor are plastic and thats where the wear and notchyness will be.. Thats why, if you've been following @pule333 , has adapted a Mk3 column into his Mk2.. His theory is these Mk2 columns were designed for a lighter car on skinner wheels and tyres so less force would have been required..


Oh and I've recently fitted my BRT rack and Epas, I haven't driven it much but the times i have, I haven't noticed any weird effects and it just feels the same as how the Hpas felt but maybe just a tad heavier..

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[Usr117063]

AFAIK.. The gears inside that motor are plastic and thats where the wear and notchyness will be.. Thats why, if you've been following @pule333 , has adapted a Mk3 column into his Mk2.. His theory is these Mk2 columns were designed for a lighter car on skinner wheels and tyres so less force would have been required..


Oh and I've recently fitted my BRT rack and Epas, I haven't driven it much but the times i have, I haven't noticed any weird effects and it just feels the same as how the Hpas felt but maybe just a tad heavier..

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I thought I was following him as I haven’t seen this mod of the mk3 column? I would say that seems right, will this be another mk3 mod added to the lis?! After the rear hubs..

Does your epas setup do this? 😂

 

[Usr117063]

 

[Eddie555]

I thought I was following him as I haven’t seen this mod of the mk3 column? I would say that seems right, will this be another mk3 mod added to the lis?! After the rear hubs..

Does your epas setup do this? [emoji23]
View attachment 1464976

Absolutely not.. WOW

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[Eddie555]

You'll find Ilyas MK3 column mod briefly on his Instagram #ruskiweldshit

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[RuskiWeldFab]

Yeah I installed mk3 colomn. It’s from 197 clio. I hope I am right and it’s more powerful. Kinda has to be right?

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[Usr117063]

@pule333 Damn look at the frame around the column compared to the one on the mk2 made of tin foil. Is the mk2 motor gear housing compared to the 197 a considerable size difference? bigger is better (more powerful)

What are you planning with that insane build? European hill climb?

 

[Usr117063]

Whats the wiring like for the 197 column? I was looking on ebay and the megane ones have the pump facing upwards too, the mounting looks strong

Is the 197 distance adjustable as well as height?

 

[Usr117063]

 

[Usr117063]

I think this is what’s causing the problem, the blue gear is not seating properly to the metal worm gear so it’s too stiff. There’s 2 pins to detach parts it looks like. The actual gears look fine, blue is nylon I think, looks strong enough

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

@pule333 Damn look at the frame around the column compared to the one on the mk2 made of tin foil. Is the mk2 motor gear housing compared to the 197 a considerable size difference? bigger is better (more powerful)

What are you planning with that insane build? European hill climb?

Haha I don’t know. Plan to do high 7 at the Nurburgring. Kick some ass at javelin sprint series. Beyond that I have no idea. Just building the best I can build. Well building the fastest [emoji23][emoji573].
Diameter of the motor is larger on 197. But it’s not as tall. Everything just feels more solid. Also on the bench side by side rotating by hand, 197 is considerably smoother. You can feel it. Also easier to ratate. That tells me the inner design is different. I simply don’t know yet. Wiring is simpler a bit. Position sensor is inside so 4 less wires to connect. But it’s the same controller as for MK2 essentially. I asked them about 9months ago if they can make one for 197. So they did. And yes it’s fully adjustable. Up/down. Forward/back. Slightly heavier than MK2.

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[Usr117063]

@pule333 Thanks for letting me know, Im going to try and repair the mk2 for now one but unfortunately youve made me want the mk3 column just because modz haha. It does look way better and purposeful though, Im sure it will drive better and for the price they seem to go for same price even less than mk2 ones.
I want the adjustable forward/back for whatever reason it seems worthwhile but mostly I bet the wheel has no movement at how the column is so solid?

I look forward to a video update if you are doing one?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

@pule333 Thanks for letting me know, Im going to try and repair the mk2 for now one but unfortunately youve made me want the mk3 column just because modz haha. It does look way better and purposeful though, Im sure it will drive better and for the price they seem to go for same price even less than mk2 ones.
I want the adjustable forward/back for whatever reason it seems worthwhile but mostly I bet the wheel has no movement at how the column is so solid?

I look forward to a video update if you are doing one?

Absolutely 0 movement side to side. The only movement I am getting is from lifeline quick release. And even that is 1mm side to side if that. So yeah very solid. Apart from making custom mount. It’s almost a straigh swap as well. Lower MK2 shaft slots on top of upper inner mk3. Can’t wait to test it. Actualy not even wired it yet. Been distracted by few other things hahah. And yes vid coming but there’s a back log of footage at moment. I work quicker than I can eddit haha.

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[Usr117063]

@pule333 Have you seen the quick release I had? It was a rapfix, zero play, it locates with ball bearings that are being pushed by springs so as/if things start to wear the spring just push the ball more to slacken up the gap (there is no gap)

How about a deal you can have the rapfix if you weld and wire in a 197 column for me?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

@pule333 Have you seen the quick release I had? It was a rapfix, zero play, it locates with ball bearings that are being pushed by springs so as/if things start to wear the spring just push the ball more to slacken up the gap (there is no gap)

How about a deal you can have the rapfix if you weld and wire in a 197 column for me?

Interesting proposition [emoji23] let’s test mine first! If it’s all perfect and better than I can fit one to yours.


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[Usr117063]

Interesting proposition [emoji23] let’s test mine first! If it’s all perfect and better than I can fit one to yours.


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Cool! Yeah tests needed first, when you turn the car on for the first time it could start spinning lock to lock really quick and take your hand out or something