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DUF.



  53 Clio's & counting
I really have to stop buying Clio's :eek:

So, even though I have owned pretty much all sporty Clio's, from Mk1 RSi's, 1.8 16v's (2 of them), 16v Hybrids, 172's (3 of them) 182 - I have not owned a Williams.


So when I remembed Dan still had DUF, I offered to buy it, and the rest is history.


The plan? Duf will be a toy, and I hope to (slowly) clean it up and get it back into the best example I can.


So I collected it today, and as it has been sat for a good year, I drove over to work and got it up on a ramp to have a good look over it and give it a quick oil change.


After giving the underside a good going over, all I can say is Duf has been well looked after (!) as the underside is near completely rust free - there is some surface rust on a few bits of bodywork where the underseal has been pulled off, and a few bits where paint has come off the lips on the sills, but nothing some sanding and a new coat of paint won't solve.


The rear arches for a Mk1 Clio are good - o/s one has a bubble about the size of a 50p piece, and the n/s has a bit of surface rust on the lip, and some a little further up - my bodywork guy will be checking it out over the coming weeks, and see if I can get away with getting it sanded back, treated and sprayed, or if I will need some new metal - we will see.


Unfortunately the boot has the usual rust spots, the rear wiper hole is larger than it should, and under by the boot lock looks a bit terminal, so that will be treated until I can find a better condition bootlid. Door bottoms are solid.

It does have a few scratches and marks, and the front bumper is f**ked and is currently held on my bonnet pins lol, but Mr Colshe has a bumper I will be having off him to replace it with. I also have the grille to go back on, though I need to source some front fog lights.

The wheels are in good condition, but the wrong colour, so they will be refurbished later on in the year.



So, first impressions?

It is great to be back in a Clio, and I do love Mk2's, and for a daily car they are better, but the Mk1 does feel more raw as you would expect.

Duf is a little different, as it has some choice modifications (For those who don't know already)

The usual exhaust and air filter upgrade
Prowler exhaust manifold
Angelworks Cams and Cat pulleys
Gunnerchip (7100 rpm limit)
Complete 172 widetrack - 172 shocks, driveshafts, wishbones, hubs and brakes (280mm front discs) I think approx 30mm wider?
13 row Mocal oil cooler

I have done about 100 miles or so today, and although I have been taking it easy (As it was sat for a year Im being a bit gentle for now) it drives really well, and I still say Williams seats are the most comfortable Renault seats - plus the Mk1 driving position suits me quite well.


Turn in is awesome - my old hybrid was not like this, so I'm putting it down to the 172 setup - you can turn at any speed and it just goes, and it has a great 'feel' to it. Brakes are again brilliant, it is running OEM spec and to be honest for road use are perfect - testing the brakes from motorway speeds and it stops very impressively.

Only downsides I have found so far:

The rear is too low. It looks good, but I think the shocks are getting past their best on the back, and the back being so low makes that worse. Plus through the rear view mirror all I see is road lol.

The second is it could benefit from a map - the current chip (as far as I can tell and from researching) is not optimised for the cams - the idle is around 1300rpm, and it just doesn't feel as good as it could be.


It does need a new idle control valve I think, as the revs stick for a bit when you come off the throttle, but Il check out the throttle cable and tb before I look for another.


So thats it, sorry for the long read, I hope il be able to get Duf into great condition, and have fun doing it :)

Some pics from today:

2012-03-31135756.jpg


2012-03-31135802.jpg


2012-03-31135824.jpg


2012-03-31135857.jpg


2012-03-31135907.jpg


2012-03-31135912.jpg


2012-03-31135919.jpg


2012-03-31135928.jpg
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Cheers mate :eek:


Well have done another 60 odd miles today, and still all good :)

Been looking at the high idling problem today - when revs drop (ie slowing down to stop at a junction, or a roundabout) when you dip the clutch, the revs go up to circa 2000, then drop to 1300-1500 ish. Also the idle seems to be around the 1300 mark.

A common issue which my mate advised me (and what the WC boys say too) is the wiring plug on the speedo cable, the earth lead doesn't 'earth' enough lol. So I clipped the earth wire, put in a joiner, and ran another wire to a new earth point, to help it earth better (I would have just cut it and made a new one, but unsure if it happens to 'earth' anything else along the way lol) .

Well that made f**k all difference lol.

Ran out of time tonight as the light was fading, so il pop the dash top off one night this week, and unplug the cable and see if it makes any difference - might be a new cable to fix it.

Il whip the TB off this week and give it a clean up for the hell of it I think too.
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
My idle screwed up on my 3 for a bit. After a good drive and thrash it fixed it. It used to jam high when not used for long periods of time.
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
I don't really drive it much at the moment, but when I do I enjoy it. Could do with an engine refurb as it does feel quite tired coming from my 172 and Trophy.

Would love to put a 172 mk1 engine in their - but, reluctant to do that considering how much I drive it & when I do it's just a potter.

PS - to force my idle low I put it in 5th at about 25 mph and slowed down until revs went to 1k - that used to help if the idle control valve was stuck.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Good buy, congratulations Russ.


Thanks dude, glad to see the R is nice :D

I don't really drive it much at the moment, but when I do I enjoy it. Could do with an engine refurb as it does feel quite tired coming from my 172 and Trophy.

Would love to put a 172 mk1 engine in their - but, reluctant to do that considering how much I drive it & when I do it's just a potter.

PS - to force my idle low I put it in 5th at about 25 mph and slowed down until revs went to 1k - that used to help if the idle control valve was stuck.

Hmmm, interesting, I have actually tried that, but it just forced itself back up - it might the the icv at fault - il whip that off and give it a good clean - only issue with a car thats been laid up for a while, nothing tends to work again for a bit!

To be honest, a healthy Williams with a 6900rpm rev limit is fantastic fun - I know F4R'd cars are quick, but id be williing to stick F7 - do you think it is tired or needs a bit of a freshen up? As standard they are not as quick as they are known to be - most standard will do a 1/4 in low to mid 15's, where as a decent filer/exhaust combo with a higher rev limit would knock a second off that and makes them much more fun :) (although Im sure you knew all that!)
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
Part of why I think it's a bit more tired is that the 1*2 really enjoy revving and never feel 'whiney' - but the Williams does to me. It feels as if it doesn't enjoy too much of a pasting. If I manage to get a house with a double garage when we next buy - I'llconsider it.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Will be watching this space :D

;)

Part of why I think it's a bit more tired is that the 1*2 really enjoy revving and never feel 'whiney' - but the Williams does to me. It feels as if it doesn't enjoy too much of a pasting. If I manage to get a house with a double garage when we next buy - I'llconsider it.

I have to admit, a standard W back to back with a 1*2 will feel less racy - as you rightly have said, the F4R does need revs to make progress, a standard W does feel a little 'wheasy', which is the breathing modifications with a slighly higher rev limit make a fantastic difference - more so than it does on an F4R.

In fact, if you ever happen to be down south at any point, you are fully welcome to drive Duf and compare - I know it has cams, but you would get a better idea :) (oh, cams do make a good difference too, Duf pulls much like an F4R now, pulls well and takes off from 4500rpm to when the limiter calls time at 7100)
 

Jamie

ClioSport Club Member
Thanks Russ. Not sure I'll ever make it that far south. Currently Glasgow is what I'd call 'South'.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Ive been revving mine to 7400rpm on standard internals for ages, i'm upto 7800 now with just a set of ARP rod bolts and a quick freshen up with new rings etc.

The chip you have is wrong for the cams you have, you would benefit massively from either putting it on aftermarket, or at the very least just get it properly mapped for what you have.

That kj16v fella on the williams forum bothers to mess around with the standard ECU on those cars so is probably a good person to talk to.
 
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  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Not got any experience of him personally to recomend him from, but Zmaster2k on here was very happy with his kj16v map.
And lets face it, it would be hard to make it worse than a chip intended for a different set of cams on a speed/density based engine management setup!
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Ive been revving mine to 7400rpm on standard internals for ages, i'm upto 7800 now with just a set of ARP rod bolts and a quick freshen up with new rings etc.

The chip you have is wrong for the cams you have, you would benefit massively from either putting it on aftermarket, or at the very least just get it properly mapped for what you have.

That kj16v fella on the williams forum bothers to mess around with the standard ECU on those cars so is probably a good person to talk to.

7800? I thought that was a little too high for F7R, then again we are talking about 15 + year old engines that could have been plenty abused and tired in the first place - it's good to hear that if built properly they can last well!

My last 7R was built by Nick Hill, and that was still making power when the limiter cut in at 6900, so Im not suprised if youi were to tell me it was making decent power at those revs too.

Id like to go aftermarket, but to be honest mate I have a 2nd child on the way and my budget for cars is not massive at the moment, and in fact I have dropped jk16v a PM, though I have always prefered dyno to road mapping he does seem to know what he is doing, and seems to get very good results.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
7800? I thought that was a little too high for F7R

Its geometry is the same as the F4R mate, so with a set of ARP's like I fitted when I freshened the engine up there isnt really a problem revving that far.

then again we are talking about 15 + year old engines that could have been plenty abused and tired in the first place - it's good to hear that if built properly they can last well!

I wouldnt accuse mine of being built properly TBH, its just rings and bearings etc, so still on the original rods and pistons.


My last 7R was built by Nick Hill, and that was still making power when the limiter cut in at 6900, so Im not suprised if youi were to tell me it was making decent power at those revs too.
Yeah mine is still well on the boil at those rpm, it pulls through really cleanly. Standard inlet might restrict it a little on yours though.


Id like to go aftermarket, but to be honest mate I have a 2nd child on the way and my budget for cars is not massive at the moment, and in fact I have dropped jk16v a PM, though I have always prefered dyno to road mapping he does seem to know what he is doing, and seems to get very good results.

TBH he'll be so aware of the ignition requirements anyway, which really doesnt vary much on these engines, that just doing the fuelling accurately should be very close to spot on. Im sure he'll do it on a set of rollers if you pay him though.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
it pulls well up to the current 7100rpm limiter, but to be honest id rather not be chasing any more revs than that, it has done 107,000 miles now, and im guessing it has never been apart, so id be tempted with a slightly lower limit for safety's sake until I have enough time to pull it out and freshen it up. What state of tune is yours in at the mo mate? I remember you saying it was on a different inlet?
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Mine is just a set of hotter cams lobbed in on the standard pulleys (although I filed the keyway a litle to alter the timing) and a homemade inlet, its nothing fancy at all, just a cheap and cheerful track hack.

Inlet on mine is this one I knocked up from random bits I had laying around:

f6da4d0c.jpg

8ca941ea.jpg



Excuse the comedy large filter, i put a bigger one on my nova and thats the old one from when it was only about 500bhp so this got it as it was free, same reason I choose a cossie throttle body, its probably smaller than ideal but I had one there so it went on.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Mine is just a set of hotter cams lobbed in on the standard pulleys (although I filed the keyway a litle to alter the timing) and a homemade inlet, its nothing fancy at all, just a cheap and cheerful track hack.

Inlet on mine is this one I knocked up from random bits I had laying around:

f6da4d0c.jpg

8ca941ea.jpg



Excuse the comedy large filter, i put a bigger one on my nova and thats the old one from when it was only about 500bhp so this got it as it was free, same reason I choose a cossie throttle body, its probably smaller than ideal but I had one there so it went on.


looks plenty good enough, 180ish bhp?

Is that some sort of extra brace br on the side of the engine, by the coolant bottle?
This was the best sounding car at the Airfield. Ever.

That's a stone cold fact.

Lol!
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
looks plenty good enough, 180ish bhp?

Yeah probably about 170-180 or so I would think, was 172 on dyno dnyamics when it was on bodies but minus the cams and goes about the same now. I would say its a little less torque but little more rpm so seems to have come out in the wash.

Is that some sort of extra brace br on the side of the engine, by the coolant bottle?

Yeah, to stop it wobbling around so much, they are quite bad for it.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
Yeah probably about 170-180 or so I would think, was 172 on dyno dnyamics when it was on bodies but minus the cams and goes about the same now. I would say its a little less torque but little more rpm so seems to have come out in the wash.



Yeah, to stop it wobbling around so much, they are quite bad for it.

Plenty enough to have some fun on track with then ;)

I miss my Mk1 armchair seats :(

they are uber comfortable, willy seats even more so (PS you best be texting me with an update when you get one! ;) )
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Im guessing it's wide tracked mate?

Yes mine is on R19 widetrack
Same width as the williams, but a little more caster.

172 widetrack like yours is better though, thats what is on my other mk1 that I am building with a honda turbo engine.
 
  53 Clio's & counting
I was amazed at the difference with the 172 setup, my last hybrid was very stable but the difference with wide track was noticable, and this even more so again, it is running some camber, il grab some photos to show later. Would benefit from some decent geo mind, but all will be done in good time :)
 
  Massey6465 & saxo1.1
Ahh,the Memories!
Still looks the part..that low back end allways used to amuse me. Best of luck with the project,deffo keep the updates coming on here.
:rasp:
 


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