Engine refresh advice

[mikeh]

I'm currently sat on 165k miles and using a lot of oil.

I'm going to start looking at an engine refresh this year, however, I'm unsure of the best way to proceed.

I guess there are a few options;

1. Rebuild current engine, hope crank/bores are in good condition or risk having the car immobile in the case of complications
2. Purchase another engine and leave it alone - hope for the best.
3. Purchase another engine and refresh that with new rings, bearings, arp rod bolts etc.

I'm leaning towards 2 or 3 - any work would have to be DIY and likely involve a steep learning curve, which has me leaning slightly to option 2.

Basically, whilst I'd like to have a crack at a rebuild, I'm ultimately looking for reliability - I can't think of anything more frustrating than coughing up £500 for a track day (with ferries, fuel, hotels and the day etc.) only to end up with engine issues. Plus, I'd like to at least consider getting on a grid somewhere at least a couple of times next year.

That said, given that the car will only ever really be used on track now, I guess it's a battle between the additional reliability by refreshing vs. the potential reliability issues that are down to the quality of the job I do.

I'm sure there are plenty here experienced enough to tell me how difficult a rebuild is likely to be (along with potential expenses) vs. the reliability of a standard engine on average miles. I'm guessing most stuff I find is going to be on 70-110k miles with it's history being pretty much pot luck!

I'd be grateful for any advice/experience offered!

 

[Advikaz]

If it was me, i'd purchase another engine & build it up properly over time whilst keeping the current engine in (if it lasts) until the new engine is done.

 

[da rok]

+1 on that

 

[mikeh]

So have you guys built F4Rs?

I know this sounds like a good idea, but I'm concerned about the practicalities of a DIY engine build that needs to be reliable.

 

[Chip-mk1]

So have you guys built F4Rs?

I know this sounds like a good idea, but I'm concerned about the practicalities of a DIY engine build that needs to be reliable.

Dont underestimate the cost either in terms of doing anymore than just throwing a set of rings in, and ultimately if you can find one that isnt breathing (which is MOST of them IME) then there is no real need to open it up.

On my mrs last clio we had an engine failure (PAS fluid on aux belt, aux belt degraded and slipped, cambelt jumped a few teeth, so bent the valves with the pistons)
To do only a very basic rebuild, with the most minor of upgrades (ARP rod and head bolts, and some better valves) ended up costing me about 1300 quid in total in parts alone.
For me that worked out fine, was a couple of afternoons work and back on the road and outlived the car through loads of trackdays and a ring/spa trip and lots of road miles, but if you did the same and arent as familiar with engine building and made a mistake and ended up spending the same money to have a failure, how are you going to feel then?

 

[Kelv]

I've bought a spare engine to build up nicely, by the time you factor in all of the right bits you can still easily hit 3-4k without labour, and that's without bodies or management, so if you can get away with finding a healthy engine maybe drop that in the car and rebuild the smokey oil burner you currently have, could be a decent avenue to take.

 

[Darryl_1983]

Engine dynamics have a list of different engine builds that they do. Might be worth looking on there, even if its just for an idea of cost. They can do the rebuild or just sell you the parts so that you can do it yourself.

 

[mikeh]

To be honest, I have little interest in building for more power (with the exception of maybe some cams while the belts were off), I just want a reliable engine that works as it should!

I assume ARP rod bolts are pretty easy to fit? I see ARP provide stretch and simple torque methods? I assume with the torque method, its only a couple of hours work at most?

If then engine I bought happened to be down on compression, how much effort are the rings to do? I assume valve issues are rare?

 

[Dan@SJM]

I had an engine delivered from a breakers last week with 80% leak down on the worst cylinder. All from the exhaust valves.

 

[Craigie-B]

Best way to learn is to get stuck in, I did the same thing with one of my mini engines - knew sod all about cars bought a mini engine to rebuild.

As chip says, learning curve took its toll and I spent 3k on it and it is a total oil burner haha - I'm now sorting a second engine out for it but it was worth the money because it taught me to have the confidence to give it a go.

I vote buy a running engine to put into your car and then re-build the oil burner for experience if nothing else

 

[Chip-mk1]

I think if building an engine that a few hundred on a good condition working engine as a starting point pays dividends in needing less work.

people always seem to want to start with a 50 quid one with scored crank journals and a wrecked head as a result of it running an end etc.
makes it so much dearer in the long run!

 

[mikeh]

Indeed. If I buy an engine, my old one will either go to the scrap yard or I may perhaps pull it apart to get a better understanding of the f4r.

If I build something, it'll be on a reasonably good engine, but if I'm honest, I'm kind of leaning towards finding a good engine, chucking some ARP rod bolts and cams in, doing the belts and enjoying it.

I'm not sure ARP rod bolts are even neccesary, but more revs would be handy for autocross regardless if the car is making power at those revs.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dans engine you have been asking about seemed like a decent one in his cup.
I don't think you will go far wrong with that despite his comedy username he is a top bloke.

 

[mikeh]

His willingness to test it, despite our disagreements in 'that' thread filled me with confidence.

I've never bought an engine before, but I have had friends buy duds on plenty of occasions. After looking around at prices, his seems priced well.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It was a good working car that he only broke due to cosmetic issues.
Plenty of people from the SW region (where I used to live, ive known dan years) will no doubt vouch for the fact it ran sweet and went well etc.

(Not another dig in next sentence despite my history of taking Mickey out of you)
obviously there is no warranty on a secondhand privately bought engine, but personally I would view his as safe a bet as you are likely to get.