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EPAS Conversion



  L200
Hi All

I’ve just ‘finished’ my EPAS conversion and thought I’d share what I learned whilst doing it.

I removed the dash upper and lower dash panels (relatively easy and gets easier the more you do it!) and access was good.

I found it was easier to undo the pinch bolt where the column meets the rack from inside the car – I pulled the big rubber seal back as far as I could and you can easily get at the fitting that way. I also trimmed the seal on the new column to remove the great big flap of rubber.

My cage prevented me from fitting the ECU in the normal position, so I mounted it on the top of the glove box – I removed the bracket and just drilled through it to locate the holes. This was actually a good choice as the high current cable run through to the engine bay was nice and short. I crimped some new cables onto the bits I had sticking out of the plug. Remember to ensure the cable rating is higher than the fuse rating!


I used one of the airbag mounting points (airbags removed) on the dash bar as the earth.

One of the reasons I removed the original column was to lower it – I have a low seat to ensure my head clears the small roll cage brace across the door opening. If you remove the column adjuster mechanism, the column can be lowered further with a little bit of effort.

Near to this point, I tapped into the supply for the cigarette lighter (yellow / red?) for the ECU supply. This brings on the EPAS with the accessory position which is what I wanted.

I didn’t use the ebay / Portuguese controller as a friend of mine builds power steering systems for rally cars (he supplies many of the bigger suppliers) - https://www.facebook.com/electricpowersteering/ . I used one of his controllers which is a really quality bit of kit but more expensive than the ebay offering.

I fitted a 5PK850 belt which was a bit of a tight one but seems fine.

I have left the power steering pump and system in place (I know removing it would save weight but I’ve run out of time). I will remove the pump when I get time, then run the pipes up to a reservoir (rather than linking them) based on my friend’s advice.

I drove the car up and down the drive and the EPAS seemed good.

The real test (which will be the next time I drive it) will be Pembrey sprint in a week – a pretty scary test for a new steering system!

Wyn

 
I'm so disappointed with mine, on the road feels ok, lack of return is odd at first, but on track it was horrible 😧 hope you're happier with yours, wish I hadn't bothered :cry: I'm hoping another day out in it will make me gel with it, the assistance is odd to say the least. Maybe a manual rack is my answer
 
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  172 Ph1
I'm so disappointed with mine, on the road feels ok, lack of return is odd at first, but on track it was horrible 😧 hope you're happier with yours, wish I hadn't bothered :cry: I'm hoping another day out in it will make me gel with it, the assistance is odd to say the least. Maybe a manual rack is my answer
That's not right , what's it feel like then ?
What rack are you using ?
 
That's not right , what's it feel like then ?
What rack are you using ?
Looped cup rack. it's like a split second between turning the wheel and assistance kicking in, I can feel it really obviously. Dead straight there seems to be a dead spot. Turning assistance almost off it's a bit juddery, like it's kicking in and dropping out which isn't good mid corner. On almost full assistance it's smooth but a bit too 'assisted' for me, I've tried running the rack with the loop opened and it was the same. Dci rack is next if I can't get on with it next time. I was actually slower last time out as it just didn't give me confidence.
 
  172 Ph1
Looped cup rack. it's like a split second between turning the wheel and assistance kicking in, I can feel it really obviously. Dead straight there seems to be a dead spot. Turning assistance almost off it's a bit juddery, like it's kicking in and dropping out which isn't good mid corner. On almost full assistance it's smooth but a bit too 'assisted' for me, I've tried running the rack with the loop opened and it was the same. Dci rack is next if I can't get on with it next time. I was actually slower last time out as it just didn't give me confidence.
Ah ok , then wouldn't the motor or column be an issue rather than the rack ?
 
  172 Ph1
I don't know tbh, with the assistance 70% + it's smooth though, which points to the column/motor being ok and just me not liking it.....maybe, possibly, hhmmmmmmm
Just one thought , what gauge wire have you used to power the ECU and then on to the motor.
Just thinking poss it might be stalling ?
 
  MR2 Mk3 / Giulietta
Wouldnt it either work or not if the wire wasnt up to the task? Or blow the fuse if it was demanding more power?

Im in the middle of my conversion and just have the track rods to swap onto my DCI rack and then it will be ready to go and I will see if I have the same concerns!
 
Wouldnt it either work or not if the wire wasnt up to the task? Or blow the fuse if it was demanding more power?

Im in the middle of my conversion and just have the track rods to swap onto my DCI rack and then it will be ready to go and I will see if I have the same concerns!
I've a feeling the rack may have something to do with it. Good luck :)
 
  Black gold 182
@MarkX theres definitely something wrong with that mate, I wouldnt be looking at the rack (presuming rack bushes are ok) but id be looking at gauge of wiring/epas motor, sounds like the motor is struggling to keep up. Im awaiting to put my slicks on to see how it copes with that, but when my direzzas where fully warmed up i think i experienced what you're saying while under braking/turn in the steering is unassisted then as soon as I'm off the brakes the steering becomes light again.
 
@MarkX theres definitely something wrong with that mate, I wouldnt be looking at the rack (presuming rack bushes are ok) but id be looking at gauge of wiring/epas motor, sounds like the motor is struggling to keep up. Im awaiting to put my slicks on to see how it copes with that, but when my direzzas where fully warmed up i think i experienced what you're saying while under braking/turn in the steering is unassisted then as soon as I'm off the brakes the steering becomes light again.
Thanks mate, here's a pic of the wiring, it's 25MM square cable, it's thicker than the bits of cable that were on the plug originally. if it was down to wiring or motor it wouldn't do it all the time though? the more you turn the assistance on the smoother it drives but then it loses the weight. I'll see if I can find another cheap motor and see if it's different :)

A0E7785D-B9DD-411A-AF14-4B3E041F04DD_zps597smqod.jpg
 
  MR2 Mk3 / Giulietta
I was going to say, that wiring is surely a lot beefier than standard and a shorter run. Is the motor available seperately or easy to get from a breaker?
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
7mm^2 wire is standard gauge for EPAS so 25mm is more than up to the job. Definitely isn't right though @MarkX. Got a similar problem with mine but having used a fully working version in the past I know it feels absolutely spot on when working correctly.
 
  172 Ph1
7mm^2 wire is standard gauge for EPAS so 25mm is more than up to the job. Definitely isn't right though @MarkX. Got a similar problem with mine but having used a fully working version in the past I know it feels absolutely spot on when working correctly.
Just what I needed to know , 25mm .
Will be ordering some wire soon , thanks for that Graham
 
  MR2 Mk3 / Giulietta
That ecu bracket mounts differently. Theres a clip on the underside (you csn see it in the picture), that slots into the dash frame near the drivers door, and where you have bolts it there is a corresponding hole on the dash framework to secure it.
 
  172 Ph1
That ecu bracket mounts differently. Theres a clip on the underside (you csn see it in the picture), that slots into the dash frame near the drivers door, and where you have bolts it there is a corresponding hole on the dash framework to secure it.
I've changed the position of the ECU , I have utilised the clip into the right dash frame now and it is quite secure , much better
 
  172 Ph1
Had the rack pipes out last night , and have cut the smaller pipes to just keep the unions .
Have filled them with tiger sealer and Bung / capped off for good measure .

Image1467888549.903521.jpg


Now with regards to the 2 larger holes from the high and low pressure pipes , I can confirm the sump plug does go in to the smaller diameter hole so I'll use that .
The larger diameter hole , I can confirm the old Renault gearbox oil filler plug is the correct thread to screw into the rack .

f46d0bd477fecc19a200c9b79c0a6cc0.jpg


Just to say in the pic I have used a steering wheel column bolt which I used to see if it would fit and it does .
Grind it down and tighten up as it has the Allen key socket head in it .

Will be doing the looped pipe on rack later . Will update
Happy days
 

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Had the rack pipes out last night , and have cut the smaller pipes to just keep the unions .
Have filled them with tiger sealer and Bung / capped off for good measure .

View attachment 159991

Now with regards to the 2 larger holes from the high and low pressure pipes , I can confirm the sump plug does go in to the smaller diameter hole so I'll use that .
The larger diameter hole , I can confirm the old Renault gearbox oil filler plug is the correct thread to screw into the rack .

f46d0bd477fecc19a200c9b79c0a6cc0.jpg


Just to say in the pic I have used a steering wheel column bolt which I used to see if it would fit and it does .
Grind it down and tighten up as it has the Allen key socket head in it .

Will be doing the looped pipe on rack later . Will update
Happy days
M16x1.5, M18x1.5 and M12x1 then for all the blanking plugs mate.
 
  Ph1 172 turbo
What have ppl done about the power steering pump after the conversion ? As I have had the epas fitted to my ph1 by a Clio specialist, and they have just cut and looped the pipes on the pump ! Is this ok or abit dodgy as my concern is the pump possibly overheating or ceasing and causing damage to belts.
 

bloke

ClioSport Club Member
  dan's cast offs.
What have ppl done about the power steering pump after the conversion ? As I have had the epas fitted to my ph1 by a Clio specialist, and they have just cut and looped the pipes on the pump ! Is this ok or abit dodgy as my concern is the pump possibly overheating or ceasing and causing damage to belts.

personally i wouldn't trust it and it kind of defeats the object of running epas.
 
  172 Ph1
What have ppl done about the power steering pump after the conversion ? As I have had the epas fitted to my ph1 by a Clio specialist, and they have just cut and looped the pipes on the pump ! Is this ok or abit dodgy as my concern is the pump possibly overheating or ceasing and causing damage to belts.
I take it the standard setup is still in place and standard aux belt setup still ?

I run a cup bracket setup and no pump at all . That's the best way poss imo.
IMG_4832.JPG


Steering rack bungs in and looped along the body

4ab6efa18d6d699e923983d1c63a24e0.jpg
 
  Ph1 172 turbo
It has had a new steering rack im led to believe. Off the same car the column etc came off. Just the pump has been left in place.
 
  172 Ph1
It has had a new steering rack im led to believe. Off the same car the column etc came off. Just the pump has been left in place.
I was in the same predicament.
I was running a PMS a/c delete kit and contemplated getting the idler wheel to replace the pump wheel. It worked out to be £100. So with that in mind , I sourced a cup bracket and alternator , and sold my PMS bracket and so it cost me nowt really , just removal and fitting which is free as I do all my own work.
Win win .

Maybe this would be the option you need to get on your car.
 

Ads29

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 Merc ML55
I'd lose the pump personally, I now run epas and the aux belt is only managing the water pump and alternator, as @barnesautos has said it's kind of pointless having the conversion done and then leaving the pump in place, it's only a case of using a shorter belt after all.

This is assuming you're using a cup alternator setup, otherwise you'll need to keep the pump in place so the belt doesn't foul anywhere
 
  Ph1 172 turbo
No im not running cup set up. Will look into cup set up or PMS kit over winter.

I assume that having the pump in place shouldn't cause me any problems for now ? I.e. Causing the aux belt to fail ! As I assume the pump is running dry or with very little fluid in.

Need to use car as I have trackday booked on 23rd.
 

Ads29

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 Merc ML55
I'd definetely look into getting a cup setup over the pms one, I don't think the pms a/c delete is designed to remove the PAS to begin with although there is a higher priced kit that does (circa £300 from memory)

I've no idea as to how the pump will run for now, obviously it's designed to push fluid round constantly and I imagine it uses said fluid to lubricate/cool itself.
 

bloke

ClioSport Club Member
  dan's cast offs.
you can run the pms aircon delete with just water pump and alternator.

If you run the pump without oil in it, it will seize up and throw the belt.

the impeller shaft ends up coming out but at least the pulley hitting the inner wing stops it coming all the way out. it also only takes about two miles for it to do this...don't ask me how i know:tonguewink:
 
  Ph1 172 turbo
So looks like I need to sort the cup/PMS set up sooner rather than later. Can't believe a supposed clio specialist would send the car out with the epas conversion carried out in this way.

Thanks for everybody's advise
 
  Ph1 172 turbo
Just thinking out loud. As a temporary solution to prevent the pump failing, could I fit a small fluid resivour to supply fluid direct to the pump. As this would keep the pump lubricated and cool ?

Obviously I have every intention on getting rid of the pump with new auxiliary set up. But as I'm on a trackday next weekend kinda need a quick fix for now.

Any feedback welcome lol.
 

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Just thinking out loud. As a temporary solution to prevent the pump failing, could I fit a small fluid resivour to supply fluid direct to the pump. As this would keep the pump lubricated and cool ?

Obviously I have every intention on getting rid of the pump with new auxiliary set up. But as I'm on a trackday next weekend kinda need a quick fix for now.

Any feedback welcome lol.
Your issue is the oil pressure output from the pump mate. Returning that to a reservoir will be under massive pressure.
 
  FF LY 182
I'm planning on doing the conversion in the next couple of weeks and I want to keep a/c. So I intend to loop the PAS pump back to the reservoir; I know a guy on here has done it before.
 


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