That's probably why I like it lol
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That's probably why I like it lol
1.2 172 conversion
Am also doing the epas steering conversion on mine as my car started as a 1.2 with epas already fitted but i put a 172 engine in..does anybody have any idea what belt to get as i will be taking out the pas pump and the aircon pump ?
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
5pk 847 is what you want mate.
1.2 172 conversion
Isnt the 5pk 847 just to compensate for just tge pas pump going ? Or would it be easier to leave the aircon pump in its not connected to pipes and never will be connected..also what brackets and tensioner would i have to use
1.2 172 conversion
Have noticed every1 has a 172 cup..my engine was out of a normal 172 so will i have to buy cup alternator brackets and tensioner ?
Think there is a Volvo alternative (bigash runs one I think)
Do agree it's not 100% but for getting stuff out off the engine bay it scores 10 out of 10.
Did the original hyd PAS load up the harder it's driven, can't remember?
to an extent, hard to explain, with the EPAS its the same "feel" at 5mph as it is at 100mph the only thing that weights the steering at slow speed is the tyres
originally the EPAS on the non sport clios is speed sensitive, so the faster you go it reduces the effort of the EPAS which works well
hydraulic effort just feels nicer IMO
originally the EPAS on the non sport clios is speed sensitive, so the faster you go it reduces the effort of the EPAS which works well
hydraulic effort just feels nicer IMO
1.2 172 conversion
I will just buy the cup tensioner bracket and alternator
if you run a large (wider and lower) rad you'll have to flatten the front part of it as its a bit too close to the rad otherwise. Got to take mine down a bit as it did touch the rad the first time out.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
If you turn the assistance level down on the epas you get much better feel Fred, or at least that's what I've found. With the 16's and road tyres on the car is driven with a very small amount of assistance, but on the 15's and 888's I run it the same level as James does - full assistance. I tried various levels of assistance on the 888's and the best feel I got was from either full or a qtr of a turn back on the adjuster knob.
Did you find that it was 'wandering' as well btw?
And before anyone thinks it, I'm not a limp wristed blouse wearing poodle walker. Working on hgv's for a living see's to that.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Mine feels more like its the toe out causing the wandering tbh. It's only really noticeable on the 16's when the assistance is turned up as well.
With the assistance on full mine feels very light and with the toe out it does wander a bit at high speeds.
I stick it down to 3/4 and it feels fine then
I stick it down to 3/4 and it feels fine then
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
With the assistance on full mine feels very light and with the toe out it does wander a bit at high speeds.
I stick it down to 3/4 and it feels fine then
Yeah that's what I thought anyway tbh phil, but thanks for the input. What do you drive with yours set to then? 3/4's? On the 16's I run in between 1/4 and 1/2 with a 320mm steering wheel.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Flol! Have you taken that tape off the back of your shoe yet sailor! Still makes me laugh that you fell for that one!Rubbish!
Yeah around 3/4 on the road then down to 1/2 on track. 320mm wheel too I think (renault sport jobby)
That's on 205/50/15 rainsports (lol)
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Lol whereas I'm the opposite way round with mine! It'll be interesting to see where you set it to on track when your on proper track tyres phil.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Fundamental underlying issues there that are exaggerated by the epas imo there Fred. If the assistance was turned down I'm sure it would improve it too. Mine does nigh on the exact same thing at full assistance. Watch this and you'll see what I mean. Granted though, the ring is a bumpier circuit.
[video=youtube_share;zMwiIwex2uA]http://youtu.be/zMwiIwex2uA[/video]
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Better tyre construction maybe?
That looks WAY too light. Mine on 1/2 takes a fair bit of grunt to turn it, it's not far off no PAS at all.
That video looks like mine does on full assistance!
That's mine at cadwell with the EPAS on about 2/3rds - far far more stable than both of your videos.
Just a thought and I could be wrong - but are you guys using the original rack looped back + epas, where as I'm using a DCi rack?
I'm starting to wonder if the original rack with loop back still offers some assistance in some way as people with just the looped back rack say it's still easy to live with, whereas when I just had the DCi rack on I could barely move it on the driveway
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I had (always do) mine on 1\4 to 1\2 then Sam said it was V hard under load trying to turn left at Mansfield (after the gooseneck down hill bit) so put it on 3\4's. Full on is way too light I think.
Presumably the full on setting is the same as what the standard car will use during parallel parking manouvres in which case yes that will be way too much assist.
Yup the nob just fakes a wheel speed input into the PCM
On full that's the under 10mph parking mode lol
If you could be bothered it probably wouldn't be too hard to fit an actual speed sensor and wire it into an arduino to give you variable assistance but there does seem to be quite a delay between turning the nob and the assistance changing so I'm not sure it would be reactive enough for track use
Mine doesn't seem to be over assisting like most though
On full that's the under 10mph parking mode lol
If you could be bothered it probably wouldn't be too hard to fit an actual speed sensor and wire it into an arduino to give you variable assistance but there does seem to be quite a delay between turning the nob and the assistance changing so I'm not sure it would be reactive enough for track use
Mine doesn't seem to be over assisting like most though
how would a looped rack offer assistance? that just makes no sense at all, physics is physics.
More likely is that it offers a small amount of additional resistance if anything, which then you end up turning the electric assist up to overcome, which means that the actual feel of the car where the caster is trying to pull the wheels straight etc ends up lost in translation as its only part of the weight you are feeling and the rack is the rest.
More likely though is its just different people opinions, especially as werent you on only rainsports in which case you probably didnt have enough grip to feel it pulling around if it was, lol.
This is it, I was trying to think what was different, the car doesn't self centre after a hairpin now - whereas before EPAS, with 3.5 degrees of caster, the wheel would be whipped out of your hand the moment you exited the turn. This is a big loss, as a racer.
Now I have to straighten the wheel.Makes sense about the extra resistance and trying to overcome it
Mine self centers. I still think the looped rack is a bodge. Just my opinion though
Mine self centers. I still think the looped rack is a bodge. Just my opinion though
Makes sense about the extra resistance and trying to overcome it
Mine self centers. I still think the looped rack is a bodge. Just my opinion though
Possible, the rack is the only diffrence in our EPAS set ups.
This is it, I was trying to think what was different, the car doesn't self centre after a hairpin now - whereas before EPAS, with 3.5 degrees of caster, the wheel would be whipped out of your hand the moment you exited the turn. This is a big loss, as a racer.
Even if there is a small amount of extra resistance I dont think that would take away the self centre as much as you are describing, slow it down maybe but not remove it, would be surprised if there isnt some other problem as well.
Is that definately true?
Are they both running the same geometry, the same tyres, is the rack aligned the same relative to the angle sensors etc?
Just cause its the same parts, doesnt mean one doesnt have another issue IMHO
ok, I surrender.....but yes you are correct it's not the only difference.lol.
Not trying to make you surrender mate, just dont want you to go to all the hassle of ripping the rack out and replacing it and then still find you have an issue thats all.
But that said, Id still sooner use a non hydrualic rack if it was me, like Phil has done.
I know, not about to rip it all apart as it works. You do cover every all aspects which is informative - I was just comparing my old set up with the new one. And as you say I may be over exaggerating the non-centering of the wheels in my excitement of finding a difference.
GrahamS
ClioSport Club Member
335d
I run this bracket as well. Doesn't give much adjustability. Parts are a touch over £100 from renault. Believe I listed the part numbers earlier in the thread. I used the belt 5pk830 from memory.
Angle sensor is part of the column not the rack. The wheel can only fit in one position on the column. You'd know if the column was fitted out of center on the rack as it would have to be a full 180 degrees out to meet the connector. Unless the bottom connector has been knocked completely off the column which I very much doubt.
Tyre resistance would make the self centering faster if anything.
The only other thing that could affect it is the castor angle - but I'm running standard through PMS top mounts and so are others.
Only other thing I could think is the cup wishbones running more castor than others - but again I very very much doubt that.
If you google converting power rack to manual a LOT of people actually cut the piston off the rack.
Does power steering fluid expand when hot? If so if the rack gets hot and there's now no expansion bottle or anywhere for the fluid to go as it's looped on itself surely that will add a fair bit of resistance?
