extracting power from f4r

[Aydon182]

If you hate the aggressive delivery of torque and power from a turbo car , you are a grandad!!
nothings more exhilarating and adrenaline rushing than getting punched in the nuts and having your head slammed back in the seat.
except a big shot of nos. and trying to control the car from wanting to plant itself in the closest bush and or lamppost.

 

[Chip-mk1]

How does a 600bhp Harvey Gibb built and tuned YB suit lol

Actually pretty terribly in terms of power delivery in the context of a FWD car, most of his engines are on very basic boost control stategies from what I have seen as they are all for big grip 4wd race cars normally!

Like I say I'm biased as 2 of my mates have seen the error of their ways by racing high output turbo cars and switched to N/A and never looked back, one because their wallet feel's better about it, 2 it take less to prep the car and they can wring its neck and have better lap times too. One of the cars in argument was an escort cossworth with group A shell, all the suspension gubbings, diffs etc etc, 600bhp SCR engine and swapped for a 250bhp c20xe Westfield that is only around 300-400 kg lighter than the Escos. The weight reduction is far outweighed by the torque and grip out the corners IMO of the escos but still he Westfield pi**es all over it.

Cost of tyres and fuel etc is why I have clios instead of an escos or an evo as a trackday car, but with a turbo clio I get a bit of the best of both worlds IMHO.

Westfield or similar is ALWAYS the best option though. just not so nice for driving to the ring on a wet day!

 

[Sam@NP]

how many gearboxes again, remind me, i forget

that was an air flow issue, sort of.

 

[Sam@NP]

If you hate the aggressive delivery of torque and power from a turbo car , you are a grandad!!
nothings more exhilarating and adrenaline rushing than getting punched in the nuts and having your head slammed back in the seat.
except a big shot of nos. and trying to control the car from wanting to plant itself in the closest bush and or lamppost.

Wait until you feel what real aerodynamics can do. 20minutes in a real aero car and you won't be able to hold your head up.

 

[Aydon182]

Cost of tyres and fuel etc is why I have clios instead of an escos or an evo as a trackday car

Oh really? I thought it was because your clio was better than an evo in every way possible. FLol.

 

[Aydon182]

Wait until you feel what real aerodynamics can do. 20minutes in a real aero car and you won't be able to hold your head up.

Haha, sounds good.
i saw a KTM passing through maidstone, Kent the other month in a petrol station, took the guy about 20 minutes just to start the fking engine lmao.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Oh really? I thought it was because your clio was better than an evo in every way possible. Lol.

Why on earth would you think that?

Ive certainly never said it.

Having been round the ring in sub 8 mins in an Evo, I know that my clio will never compete with that for out and out pace round a track, however what it will compete with is I did 20+ trackdays last year like every other year and my mate with the Evo had to take a year off for his funds to recover!

Anyway, this is a serious discussion in this thread, so no offence but it might be better if you left it alone and went and watched the fast and the furious instead and touched yourself looking at the jap motors tbh mate.
We ALL know that no clio will touch a time attack evo round a track, it doesnt even need mentioning in terms of a comparison between the two cars, its totally pointless and has got very very boring with you keep saying it.

 

[Aydon182]

Why on earth would you think that?

Ive certainly never said it.

Having been round the ring in sub 8 mins in an Evo, I know that my clio will never compete with that for out and out pace round a track, however what it will compete with is I did 20+ trackdays last year like every other year and my mate with the Evo had to take a year off for his funds to recover!

Anyway, this is a serious discussion in this thread, so no offence but it might be better if you left it alone and went and watched the fast and the furious instead and touched yourself looking at the jap motors tbh mate.
We ALL know that no clio will touch a time attack evo round a track, it doesnt even need mentioning in terms of a comparison between the two cars, its totally pointless and has got very very boring with you keep saying it.

Lmao, don't be hurt. Mister "there's no real substance to an evo being better than a turbo clio"
then contradict yourself 50 posts later like you always do.

One person disagree's with you and it's "where you touched as a child" or "go play with yourself" like seriously? For your age you aren't very mature.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lmao, don't be hurt. Mister "there's no real substance to an evo being better than a turbo clio"
then contradict yourself 50 posts later like you always do.

One person disagree's with you and it's "where you touched as a child" or "go play with yourself" like seriously? For your age you aren't very mature.

Not hurt mate. Just bored.

40k to build modified cars are quicker than 10k to build modified cars. Never said differently. Yawn.

You keep acting like a child so get treated like one.

 

[MG cup]

Actually pretty terribly in terms of power delivery in the context of a FWD car, most of his engines are on very basic boost control stategies from what I have seen as they are all for big grip 4wd race cars normally!
Cost of tyres and fuel etc is why I have clios instead of an escos or an evo as a trackday car.

Westfield or similar is ALWAYS the best option though. just not so nice for driving to the ring on a wet day!

I know of someone with a 400bhp civic EK turbo up our way and that is amazingly good at putting power down as you have said as it has boost per gear and a good diff, BUT it has to be cared for far too much and money involved is crazy compared to N/A cars that are matching lap times.

Thats my attraction to little hot hatches as well plus they are chuckable, suits my angry way of driving better.

that was an air flow issue, sort of.

How many did it chew....just to humour us?

 

[Wrighty.]

Lmao, don't be hurt. Mister "there's no real substance to an evo being better than a turbo clio"
then contradict yourself 50 posts later like you always do.

One person disagree's with you and it's "where you touched as a child" or "go play with yourself" like seriously? For your age you aren't very mature.

Try running a scooby or an evo day to day let alone a track car then see how much better they are, are they any more fun than a clio round a track or on the road? Well yes if you like screaming powerrrrrrr as you belt along raping the speed limit, I can have equal amounts of fun in both but one will cost me a third of the price. Hard decision. Chip has stated many times he runs clios because they're cheap to run and fix and he does a lot of track time.

 

[mitch1503]

this forum is starting to get boring with the constant drivvle off the select few

 

[Sam@NP]

1 box would last two weekends. The O2M box was getting too hot and the casing was flexing resulting in 4 and 5th not engaging properly.

Changed to a O2Q (stronger casing) with box oil cooler and the issue was resolved.

 

[Fred@BTM]

How many did it chew....just to humour us?

then silly b****cks Sam here had a sequential made for it, it went bang about 5 times IIRC

 

[Sam@NP]

then silly b****cks Sam here had a sequential made for it, it went bang about 5 times IIRC

I blame farther's poor shift technique.

 

[MG cup]

1 box would last two weekends. The O2M box was getting too hot and the casing was flexing resulting in 4 and 5th not engaging properly.

Changed to a O2Q (stronger casing) with box oil cooler and the issue was resolved.

flol, your tyres were almost lasting longer.

then silly b****cks Sam here had a sequential made for it, it went bang about 5 times IIRC

He was still right with his original quote, 320whp and no "engine" issues lol.


What series are you in that is allowing engine tuning and g/box mods in a GT car?

 

[Aydon182]

went and watched the fast and the furious instead and touched yourself looking at the jap motors tbh mate.

your post

Oh really? I thought it was because your clio was better than an evo in every way possible. FLol.

My post.

clear to see who acts like a child tbh.

 

[Sam@NP]

GT Cup and Brit car. Than the KTM was homologated with a sequential or H Pattern.

It was worked out that, to do Brit car 24h we would need 3 box changes with the O2M

 

[Aydon182]

Try running a scooby or an evo day to day let alone a track car then see how much better they are, are they any more fun than a clio round a track or on the road? Well yes if you like screaming powerrrrrrr as you belt along raping the speed limit, I can have equal amounts of fun in both but one will cost me a third of the price. Hard decision. Chip has stated many times he runs clios because they're cheap to run and fix and he does a lot of track time.

Each and every car has there own aspects and factors of fun to them 4WD with big powers like scoobys and evo will have neck snapping acceleration which is completely different to something like a caterham or Westfields and lancia stratos which are so light they don't even need much power for them to be rapid just depends what people like , like you say. Even mini metro's and old classic mini's are buckets of fun, it's all about a car character

 

[MG cup]

That explains it. H pattern didn't work out too cost effective in the end then lol.

How old are you Aydon?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Try running a scooby or an evo day to day let alone a track car then see how much better they are, are they any more fun than a clio round a track or on the road? Well yes if you like screaming powerrrrrrr as you belt along raping the speed limit, I can have equal amounts of fun in both but one will cost me a third of the price. Hard decision. Chip has stated many times he runs clios because they're cheap to run and fix and he does a lot of track time.

ive both driven and been passenger in so many dozens of tuned 4wd turbo cars now that I really have lost count and my personal experience is that 400bhp ones drive themselves so well it pretty much bores me and that 600 bhp ones are as much fun as a 300bhp turbo hatch but far far dearer to run and also far harder to find somewhere to use them properly. And yes they of course are quicker if you care about lap times.

For example a few months ago a mate of mine asked me to take someone out in his over 500bhp escos to show them what it goes like.
I came off a big roundabout by morrisons (in Germany obviously or it would be naughty Lol) and gunned it in 3rd from 60mph, then went flat out through 3rd and 4th till I topped 4th out at well over 140mph. Which I decided was as quick as I wanted to be going on that road which if it was in this country would have been a 50mph limit and potentially an easy place to get nicked. When I backed off I was still alongside morrisons. Literally had only gone the length of the carpark and shop and was going too quick already.

Its just pointless unless you happen to own your own very long stretch of road IMHO having that power in a road car. I've not even bothered taxing my own 500bhp or so sierra for years for the same reason. I just don't have any real use for it.

Hot hatches are just more fun to me and being so much more affordable means I can use them far more often.

Aydon is obviously quite new to modified cars so he hasn't been through it all yet but eventually he'll realise the pointlessness of chasing numbers too I'm sure just like I and nearly everyone else tends to do and just concentrate on what is fun instead.

 

[Chip-mk1]

GT Cup and Brit car. Than the KTM was homologated with a sequential or H Pattern.

It was worked out that, to do Brit car 24h we would need 3 box changes with the O2M

Flol at 3 boxes to one race!

 

[Wrighty.]

ive both driven and been passenger in so many dozens of tuned 4wd turbo cars now that I really have lost count and my personal experience is that 400bhp ones drive themselves so well it pretty much bores me and that 600 bhp ones are as much fun as a 300bhp turbo hatch but far far dearer to run and also far harder to find somewhere to use them properly. And yes they of course are quicker if you care about lap times.

For example a few months ago a mate of mine asked me to take someone out in his over 500bhp escos to show them what it goes like.
I came off a big roundabout by morrisons (in Germany obviously or it would be naughty Lol) and gunned it in 3rd from 60mph, then went flat out through 3rd and 4th till I topped 4th out at well over 140mph. Which I decided was as quick as I wanted to be going on that road which if it was in this country would have been a 50mph limit and potentially an easy place to get nicked. When I backed off I was still alongside morrisons. Literally had only gone the length of the carpark and shop and was going too quick already.

Its just pointless unless you happen to own your own very long stretch of road IMHO having that power in a road car. I've not even bothered taxing my own 500bhp or so sierra for years for the same reason. I just don't have any real use for it.

Hot hatches are just more fun to me and being so much more affordable means I can use them far more often.

Aydon is obviously quite new to modified cars so he hasn't been through it all yet but eventually he'll realise the pointlessness of chasing numbers too I'm sure just like I and nearly everyone else tends to do and just concentrate on what is fun instead.

haha brilliant. I agree it's all good having 500-600bhp in a road car but there is so few places left to use it. I know so many people who have bought scoobys and loved them for about a month then ended up driving them everywhere in 5th gear because they're scared of dropping below 20mpg or shredding a new set of tyres lol.

 

[Aydon182]

When have I chased numbers may I ask? When I say. 400bhp evo is quicker than a clio? When I compared them I took into consideration that it was 4WD the power per tonne it produces and things like that, coming from having 205 gti's I know the valueability of fun factor in cars, I had a lynx supercharged 205 which was running something like 240bhp and that alongside the clio were the most fun cars I've ever owned and I would rather own them again than the more expensive cars which you say and I agree drive themselves so easily. None of this I have ever debated you just think that I have because I defend those cars when people seem to think they're clio's can crush them probably because they "feel" faster.

 

[Aydon182]

haha brilliant. I agree it's all good having 500-600bhp in a road car but there is so few places left to use it. I know so many people who have bought scoobys and loved them for about a month then ended up driving them everywhere in 5th gear because they're scared of dropping below 20mpg or shredding a new set of tyres lol.

Same applies to a 300bhp sc/tc clio's though, doesn't it?
people love them for a while then either sell them or run them as weekend toys only because of mpg and shredding tyres.

 

[Chip-mk1]

When have I chased numbers may I ask? When I say. 400bhp evo is quicker than a clio? When I compared them I took into consideration that it was 4WD the power per tonne it produces and things like that, coming from having 205 gti's I know the valueability of fun factor in cars, I had a lynx supercharged 205 which was running something like 240bhp and that alongside the clio were the most fun cars I've ever owned and I would rather own them again than the more expensive cars which you say and I agree drive themselves so easily. None of this I have ever debated you just think that I have because I defend those cars when people seem to think they're clio's can crush them probably because they "feel" faster.

You keep telling us that people on here think their cars can crush modified evos, but I have yet to see anyone credible on here actually ever make such a claim so I really have no idea who you think you are replying to about it when you go and on about it in what seems to me like nearly every thread you post in lately.

We're all here cause we like clios, it doesnt mean though that we havent ever driven stuff faster, most of us have, and a lot of us still own other cars that are faster as well as the clios.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Same applies to a 300bhp sc/tc clio's though, doesn't it?

A 300bhp clio piles speed on a lot slower than a 600bhp evo, especially at higher speeds where aerodynamics come into play, so for the same stretch of road you can have your foot down for longer till you get to a silly speed, and also it feels quicker in a smaller car so is more fun, but yes even a 300bhp clio is far faster than you need for driving legally on the road, or even just trying to keep it to double legal speeds!

people love them for a while then either sell them or run them as weekend toys only because of mpg and shredding tyres.

I drive a 1.2 corsa as a daily, Ive bought 2 sets of tyres in the last 70K miles Ive driven in it, it costs me hardly anything to maintain and it does 45mpg, I dont see why anyone needs more for commuting in traffic, then I use my fun cars at the weekend.
I view fast dailys as good for nothing other than wasting money and getting points on your license really in many ways.

That said with a standard ish 172, if you are sensible enough with the throttle pedal to avoid fines, they are great on fuel and normally cheap on other running costs too, so perhaps people dont need to go as far as a 1.2 corsa to save money, its just what fell into my lap and ive used it since and will till it dies, then will find something else cheap for another 100K miles or so. Last time it was an audi diesel so might try that again or similar.

 

[Aydon182]

You keep telling us that people on here think their cars can crush modified evos, but I have yet to see anyone credible on here actually ever make such a claim so I really have no idea who you think you are replying to about it when you go and on about it in what seems to me like nearly every thread you post in lately.

We're all here cause we like clios, it doesnt mean though that we havent ever driven stuff faster, most of us have, and a lot of us still own other cars that are faster as well as the clios.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?677421-Turbo-supercharge-clio-quick-as

You obviously don't read the threads your making comments on, same as you keep telling me I'm someone who chases figures and don't understand it's about the fun factor in cars but can't really clarify anything I've said like that.

 

[Wrighty.]

Same applies to a 300bhp sc/tc clio's though, doesn't it?
people love them for a while then either sell them or run them as weekend toys only because of mpg and shredding tyres.

Probably that and a combination of that and the fact they realise they have spent 5+ grand and their ten year old french hatchback is still a ten year old French hatchback. But I still think a turbo clio would be a lot cheaper to run than a highly tuned 500+ Bhp car.

 

[Chip-mk1]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?677421-Turbo-supercharge-clio-quick-as

You obviously don't read the threads your making comments on, same as you keep telling me I'm someone who chases figures and don't understand it's about the fun factor in cars but can't really clarify anything I've said like that.

No I do read them I dont view people saying "A 270-330bhp turbo clio is about as quick in a straight line as a 400bhp evo once moving" which is the general consensus of that thread as being the same as saying that it will crush one TBH like you say it does.

 

[LIL B]

Would if it was a cup...

 

[Chip-mk1]

Would if it was a cup...

Lol, indeed, especially if it had 2118s.

 

[Jay Payne]

Germany has Morrisions?!?

 

[Wrighty.]

Germany has Morrisions?!?

I think he meant Aldi

 

[Chip-mk1]

Germany has Morrisions?!?

Yeah, its here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=mor...&cid=0,0,2169581757236996634&t=m&z=16&iwloc=A

For some reason though on that map it looks like its in weston super mare, but it cant have been as I was definately not speeding, that would be naughty and im a good boy, so it must have been an autobahn really.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Leeeeet it shiiiine.

 

[Fred@BTM]

I'll have to take you out in the V6 sometime chip just to see if you scare easily

 

[Flat Eric]

I'll have to take you out in the V6 sometime chip just to see if you scare easily

Take me out in it Fred. I want to be scared!

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'll have to take you out in the V6 sometime chip just to see if you scare easily

Would love a ride but TBH seems unlikely it would be scarey compared to some of the cars Ive been in like with rally drivers or drifters etc, only time I ever get scared really is when the driver clearly has NO ability at all.

 

[Sam@NP]

I'll have to take you out in the V6 sometime chip just to see if you scare easily

Speaking of gearboxes