gearbox change can of worms

[chompy_snake]

Right, I bought a gearbox from fellow member decco the other day. ... That's where the fun stops for us I'm afraid!

After a long day mostly wasted. We found you can't just drop 1 side of the subframe FFS so we have bolts all over the shop and one corner stripped!

Every mount is shagged and drivers side of the rack is loose ..... I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg as the engine seems to be hugely over fueling when running . I don't think that it was a great idea to buy this particular 172 now I have started digging and I am considering breaking the heap to recoup some costs lost. What the heck should I do with it as I know ph1 172s are thin on the floor now ?
plus any advice re taking box out from the bottom? And if the subframe can be removed without stripping the rest of the car because I really am stuck and disappointed with my 172

 

[ilovewilly]

Why not just undo the other side of the subframe and drop it to the floor? You can sort your rack issue out at the same time easily then.

 

[GrahamS]

Has the bolt actually stripped or has the cage broke on the captive nut? If it's just the cage rip that out with a screwdriver and put a socket it to hold the nut in place as you loosen off the bolt.

Dropping the whole subframe is easiest for a box change. You'll give yourself a million times more hassle breaking a car than sorting this small problem.

 

[chompy_snake]

Sorry for not replying earlier ... Going to have a go at getting the other side dropped this afternoon and see what happens.
If the subframe drops that side with no problems I guess we can start getting everything else out (I am never doing this again)!
If we encounter huge problems and can't get it all apart I'm stuck really because it's getting done on the driveway while sat on axle stands ... suppose I have the chance to change absolutely everything on but it's going to take months doing that lol
And the only subframe bolts we have had issues with so far are the small ones that go into the thin plates onto the floor (like like a quadrant piece or something). they mostly shear the heads without trying .... can these bits be removed from the car or are they needed??

 

[Rob669]

They are there for safety and part of the impact protection.

 

[sam JFM]

i doubt they do very much TBH, there is nothing structural about their construction

 

[Dan@SJM]

You can drop just 1 side...

 

[chompy_snake]

well the gearbox is off the car ... what a mess it is indeed, wish I never started this.
In my opinion the car is nothing more than a breaker with a massive list of issues that gets longer each time I do something!
So far we have found the following issues :
Top engine mount has snapped, Dog bone mount is made from sikaflex or similar so therefore dangerous and next to useless, Gearbox top mount is badly worn and was incorrectly installed (nothing more than finger tight), both track rod ends are needing replacement and one of them was almost in 2 pieces, the steering rack was insecure with the bolts no more than finger tight on the drivers side (no idea why I tightened them now) ... The worst part of all this is that when we removed the box from the car after it taking 2 days we found out what had gone wrong ... The drivers side of the diff has near as makes no difference, exploded into the bellhousing and and all over the floor. This has left a hole the size of the entire diff casing and lots of bits of metal have entered the bellhousing! The result of this is a badly damaged clutch (I knew this was a possibility) and worst of all the flywheel has been badly damaged. The starter ring is o.k but the other row of teeth (guessing they are what the crank sensor picks up from) are nearly non existent .... Oh and I nearly forgot the sump has a piece missing where the gearbox bolts up to (only small but would need replacing) and the front suspension top mounts have above half an inch of play in them!
There is no way on this planet that this car is ever going back together again as I can buy a better ph1 for less than this will cost to put right (and lets face it, that's not that hard) ... talk about dodgy m.o.t as it was only done in november last year with apparently 0 advisories pmsl! If you want any parts it may be a good idea to message me or something before I get the scrap man to take it on the weekend, not forgetting it's ph1

And re the comment that you can drop 1 side .... we tried ... you can't, we even jumped on the subframe and hit it with a sledge hammer ... trust me you can't drop 1 side on this car !
Car will be gone by 18/03/2015 as that is when scrap man can collect it

 

[Dan@SJM]

Trust me you can, I do clutches on these only dropping the subframe 1 side. As do countless others.

 

[chompy_snake]

Trust me you can, I do clutches on these only dropping the subframe 1 side. As do countless others.

Do you have proof of this method??? i.e video or photo! You can't drop the one side or I would have done it saving hours of work!

 

[Diagro]

From that list of parts you need im sure you can fix it for less than buying a new ph1.
Engine mounts are less than £100 for the set

 

[chompy_snake]

I'm already making moves to break it all parts that are on it are up for grabs

 

[Diagro]

Well thats a shame, PH1's are thin on the ground now and you are going to break it due to some engine issues. You can buy a second hand engine for like £300 anyway.

 

[chompy_snake]

you can buy mine for £250
most of the issues with this car are not engine related anyway

 

[dablk]

Do you have proof of this method??? i.e video or photo! You can't drop the one side or I would have done it saving hours of work!

Sorry to hear of your woes but you may want to look DAN (12,000 plus posts, Clio Trader, mechanic/modifier). i would suggest he he says one side is possible, its possible.

Once again sorry, buy a second car and make the best one out of 2?

 

[chompy_snake]

no point debating it really ... 3 of us spent 2 days (would have been one if we dropped the whole thing in the first place) trying to get this gearbox out!
We tried to drop the one side of the subframe ... we even used brute force ... it wouldn't move .... so we had to drop the whole thing before we bent something! Top and bottom of it is the gearbox came out, but if you are on a driveway working upside down ... drop the entire thing it's the only way it will come off !in my experience!

Was going to buy a second car for spares but the guy who owned it (lives in Derby) never delivered and kept coming up with excuses, produced me a photo of the car when I was asking questions and it turned out not to even be his car ! *tosser* ... So I bought a gearbox from Decco, which I am positive is good as it does everything that it should off the car!
We set about dismantling the old girl and then this happened ... I guess I am totally demoralised with the damn thing, outcome would have been the same if I had taken it to a garage (just more expensive) and now the radiator has a hole in it pmsl .... it never ends!
I know they are rare, around 600 survive of the ph1 in this country I believe with only 1345 produced (or there abouts). I want to keep it I really do but it's money ... total this car owes me in one shape or form is £700 including the gearbox ... not to mention my time! Add to that list the following parts and you see why I have lost the will with it. I have to buy: 1, full set of mounts. 2, flywheel. 3, full clutch kit. 4,radiator. 5track rod ends. 6, ball joints and on top of those major parts to even get it on the road again it needs both suspension top mounts as the ones fitted are destroyed and a full set of brakes ... also the idiot that owned it has put 182 seats in and the airbag light is on ... Thats all I know of at the moment. Surely it's more cost effective to break it and buy another one??

 

[Diagro]

Well if you can find a second one in decent nick then yea i suppose. But you will be hard pushed to buy a second one thats in great mech condition without expecting it to cost you like 1.5K+. If you buy a second one for like £700 you may find it has these issues again.

So If i was you i would Power on through, Fix these problems and at the end of it you will have a decent PH1 which you KNOW is in a good condition as you have had it apart and put it back together correctly.

 

[dablk]

£700 including the Car?

 

[chompy_snake]

Well if you can find a second one in decent nick then yea i suppose. But you will be hard pushed to buy a second one thats in great mech condition without expecting it to cost you like 1.5K+. If you buy a second one for like £700 you may find it has these issues again.

So If i was you i would Power on through, Fix these problems and at the end of it you will have a decent PH1 which you KNOW is in a good condition as you have had it apart and put it back together correctly.

That is a very good point you make, I am finding some of the parts fairly hard to get at sensible prices ... main engine mount seems to be an issue @ £54 for a standard one ... I'm also told that the flywheel has to be right as there are more than 1 kind fitted to the 172's! There are however some cheap ones on the Ebay at the moment, Are they worth risking or should I buy a new one prices are as follows :
Ebay £35 approx
Random places on internet for lightened billet £257
Renault £407 ish (but they can get it next day lol)
Does anything else use the same flywheel as

 

[chompy_snake]

£700 including the Car?

and yeah £700 including the car

 

[Diagro]

if you can get one off ebay thats from the same engine that that will be fine.
Engine mount is £55 yes, But thats an important part.

 

[chompy_snake]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-C...FLYWHEEL-/331481898298?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Sorry about being annoying is this the right one and will it work ok??

 

[chompy_snake]

just so we all can see how much of a barry owned the car last here are some badly taken pics of it lol ...

and this is the automatic heap I swapped for it .... *lol*

Spoiler is now removed and I hate the wheels but it was a fair swap ... just need to know if that flywheel will do because it's uber cheap

 

[chompy_snake]

bought the flywheel ... this car has some sort of evil hold on me lol ... threatened to scrap it about 100 times in 2 days but there is at least light at the end of the tunnel and at least the flywheel is going to be sorted out ! ... onwards with the clutch fit !!! (when I buy one that is)

 

[Diagro]

When were the belts done last on the engine?

 

[chompy_snake]

according to owner before last the engine is around 48k when fitted and belts were done then (2 years ago) and after taking off the top engine mount/ cam belt top cover plate thingy, the timing belt does indeed look fairly new ... aux belt looks to be getting ready though and a swine of a job that looks to be!

 

[dablk]

i hope your get sorted mate, my own advice would be you need to save your cash and buy a more expensive base car with loads of reliable history. That easy to say and I appciate we area al on different budgets, With different requirements. If you have time to dig there are loads off old spares outs here to be found at bargain prices. Unfortunately there is a tonnes of s**t as well.

I would agree we with what @Diagro is getting at. Don't spend a load of money on this unless your 100% your eng'in isnt going to terminate. And yes an aux belt failure will often terminate the cam belt. These cars are cheap causing getting the belts services ain't.. My 2.5k 182 I bought with an immediate £700 budget to take it to a specialst to get then belts done. My trophy I will eventually build an engine so, even though it has reputable belt history. I am not stressed about it going bang in the mean time.

If your really wants aphase 1 and your aver a good shell, then I would get an donnor. If not break it to recoup your cash or try and sell as a rolling shell etc.

 

[chompy_snake]

well my shell is fairly solid, of that I'm sure. Very minimal surface rust on one rear arch and some trim damage ... but that's not bad for 15 years old I guess! This car would look alot better if de barry'd as I prefer the stock look and the wheels I have with the car are disgusting and out of place £400 halfords job I bet (why) I think they are wolfrace asia tech's?

 

[dablk]

Get them sold.. There's always another Barry waiting

 

[chompy_snake]

suppose it would fund some of the repair work .... hmmmm

 

[Rob669]

At least that back bumper hasn't been cut for the dodgy exhaust by the looks of it.

Dan certainly knows what he is talking about. He's been working on Clios professionally for many years and now runs his own business. Although I prefer to take the engine out to change the clutch and gearbox etc, but I can because I have the time free. There's one bloke on here that has removed lots of gearboxes without dropping the subframe but I don't know how he does it.

 

[chompy_snake]

I would say by magic lol

 

[chompy_snake]

Car is now broken and have a few parts left over ... shell has been scrapped as it was a massive stress and a pain in the a*se!
The gearbox just wouldn't go back on and I lost patience .... I broke a window with the breaker bar and decided to get shut of the piece of junk!

I have the engine out of it still which I want to sell as fast as possible (F4R 732 but not sure if it was the original unit), The JC5 089 box not sure of condition as it never got fitted due to unknown reasons it wouldn't go on, The horrible wheels and the aluminium bonnet are all up for grabs! Shout if you want any of the bits as they will go to scrap if not sold quickly!