Gearbox out the bottom - Help me review my plan!

[guysy]

Alright chaps. Ive put a few threads up but they've gone cold, anyway Im pretty sure my differential bearings are going. I neutral around 40mph and now varying other speeds I have a whine, which Is getting slightly louder as the weeks go on.

The plan is to source a cheap second hand box, send it to Agency Transmissions, hope it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg. At the same time I'm planning to get a Valeo clutch kit, current price is £101 with discount code (20%) at Euro car parts, are there any places cheaper?

Also planning to change the clutch cable for a new Renault one (current price -ish anyone please?). And of course the gearbox oil which after reading it seems again 75w90 is favoured for being cheaper and coping with hot temps?

Right. Im jumping the gun a bit but I want to make sure I know what I am doing, I have never tacked a gearbox change before but lots of other jobs on cars and feel confident enough to do the job.

I have read through the few guides on here so far, Ben_P's one is great but the picture guides seem to be taking the engine out of the top. I've found this guide useful too:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ips-etc-appreciated&highlight=bearing+gearbox

But he removed the subframe completely, Is this worth while? And the whole dropping the subframe passenger side... Does this mean just dropping it an inch or two and resting it on the bolts?


This is what I have written down from the guides so far, please correct me on anything missing or wrong:

1. With the car on the ground crack off the wheel nuts, and Top mounts? necessary? The out through the bottom method seems to be ok to leave the passenger side strut in place with the Hub out the way?

2. At the same time crack the hub nuts off, Or possibly leave them and take the hub and drive shaft out all together.

3. Jack up high, Remove front bumper, Remove air box.

4. Remove ECU, Necessary?

5. Remove coolant hose running along side engine?, above gearbox. Does it need to be for access or not?

6. Drain gear box oil.

7. Remove lower ball joint, track rod end, hub to strut bolts. Remove drive shafts (passenger side 3 bolts), Brake caliper passenger side, same for drivers if hub nuts aren't unbolted which I probably will anyway.

This is where Im at the What next point, which first etc?

8. Im reading that something has to be unbolted from the steering rack, what the point of this. I read rack to column pinch bolts, where are these please?

9. Depending on advice either take the sub frame off completely, or if possible just drop it passenger side. I also need to know if the bolts can be unbolted but left in a few turns to let the subframe rest on the bolts is enough to get the box out?

10. Remove the starter, rest it behind the exhaust manifold.

11. Remove the reverse light switch plug. Remove the TDC sensor (completely or leave it dangling?)

12. Remove the earth strap.

13. Support the engine with one jack, and the gearbox side with another (or should the engine be supported earlier on?). Remove bracket on top of gearbox.

14. Remove 7 bell housing bolts. Then I guess its wiggle out and off.




Fit new clutch which I've read into, any torque figures or tips for clutch ?

Then reassemble gearbox on, refit everything and refill gearbox with oil. Think that's everything covered.

While the box is out is the job easier to replace the clutch cable or not?

My only other question is how is the gear linkage disconnected?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Fred@BTM]

right i can't be bothered to go through all that so here goes

battery out
crack off hub nuts on the floor with wheels still on
jack up
wheels off
drain box oil
ball joint undo 2 x 18mm lower bolts both sides
hub nuts off
swing hubs out and remove driveshafts (undo 3 x 13mm on passenger side on box)
i undo 4 x 16mm bolts holding rack to subframe
dogbone off
unbolt starter and slide back a little
gearlinkage off (unbolt from under rubber boot)
unbolt subframe (2 x 16mm front 2 x 18mm rear)
undo 2 x 10mm bolts hold heat sheild to subframe (bit of a t**t)
jack under sump
unbolt 1 x 18mm nut holding box to box mount and t**t with hammer
lower jack
unbolt box

done (i think!)

 

[guysy]

Cheers Fred!

This is something someone said on the thread linked in my first post

Your getting there, next undo the rack to colum pinch bolt, and the 4 bolts that bolt the rack to the subframe. Seperate the bottom ball joints, undo the 16mm nut for the front engine mount, remove the rear dogbone mount, remove the 4 16mm bolts holding the frame on and lower it down on some jacks.

So is that as simple as you've said, just a case of removing the 4 bolts holding the steering rack to the sub frame? so the frame can be dropped?

 

[Detail Chris]

Stuck proper tranself 75/80 in my box and it was best thing! smooth, precise gear changes even in these freezing cold mornings! Don't recon a box then put cheap and wrong graded oil in! What's the point, spend a little and it will reward you! It doesn't have to be elf but get a quality f/s oil

chris @ DetailMe

 

[guysy]

Cheers Chris ill put the tranself stuff in then.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Leave the pinch bolt alone

 

[guysy]

Ok, Ive read the bell housing wont allow for access with a torque wrench easily so just tight yeah.

And just use my brain on how tight to do the clutch cover as well I guess?

With the sub frame off I wont need to wiggle it out the side will I? Just wiggle it off enough and then it will drop down I suppose.

Edit: Found out from looking at Rob_sri's thread about the clutch its 22nm for the pressure plate and FT for the bell housing.

When I align the clutch up using some sort of home made device and bolt the pressure plate on the clutch itself should not move at all ?

 

[guysy]

^ Anyone about the above?

And are there any traders on here who can do the clutch cheaper than £100 ?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Last genuine kit I bought had an alignment tool with it.

Yeh the box comes out the side.

 

[Budgie]

As above. Clutch comes with an alignment tool.

I much prefer taking boxes out the top TBH. Subframe is a headache for me because the clips that hold the nut into the subframe mounting always snaps. Bit more fiddly but with the main coolant hose etc all out of the way it's do-able. Means you don't have to remove the shocks etc also.

 

[guysy]

I would take it out the top but I don't have a crane, the part you say always snaps, without getting under there I can't visualise it lol, are these the steering rack to subframe bolts or the fiddly heat shield bolts?

 

[Dan@SJM]

You don't need a crane to take it out the top. It's only 37kg. I take them out the top personally, I believe Fred does too.

 

[Cup_Phil]

That write up from Fred sounds easy but it's a b**ch

The bolts holding the steering rack to the subframe are nearly impossible to get too - that's why most people undo the pinch bolt on the end of the steering column - then you can lower the subframe 4-6" with the steering rack still attached making it easier to get to the rack bolts.

I think I'd just take it out the top though - the subframe is an arse to remove and it's 50/50 that one of the captive nuts will spin and then you're fecked

 

[Budgie]

Fred loves the bottom. Ooooeerrrr.

Basically, it's when the subnframe mounting bolts (the ones that bolt it to the car) start spinning, you always get at least one clip snap. With the fronts, it's not too tricky to fix. The rears are a cnut.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Rears aren't too bad, I've bastardised one of my spanners to get in there now.

 

[guysy]

So there are clips on the subframe ? I
Won't have a clue till its in front of me.

Why do they spin, because the clips break? Can I buy spares from renault incase I do snap them?

 

[Fred@BTM]

You don't need a crane to take it out the top. It's only 37kg. I take them out the top personally, I believe Fred does too.

no chance, i don't even believe its possible!

 

[guysy]

Lol I read that discussion in an old thread, was starting to think I would get this done in a long day.

Sounds like there are problems that will hold be back along the way.

 

[Chip-mk1]

With the sub frame off I wont need to wiggle it out the side will I? Just wiggle it off enough and then it will drop down I suppose.

No, you arent taking the subframe right off, you are just moving it enough that you can get the box out between it and the chassis rail, to take it right off would be loads more work as things like the steering rack (and hence PAS pipes) are attached to it etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

no chance, i don't even believe its possible!

Ive taken mk1 boxes out the top on their own (ie without the engine), but you do still have to loosen the frame off enough to get it free in the first place so no big advantage over taking it out the bottom.

 

[Cup_Phil]

So there are clips on the subframe ? I
Won't have a clue till its in front of me.

Why do they spin, because the clips break? Can I buy spares from renault incase I do snap them?

They're those silly captive nuts that just clip into a hole - you need to soak them with WD40 for a few days before you start, I did that when I dropped my subframe to fit my 182 manifold and still one of the bolts wouldn't undo
If they start spinning around it's nearly impossible to get a spanner on them as they are inside the chassis box section - I guess you'd have to angle grind them off or something - god knows

It took me 6hrs to lower my subframe 6" swap the exhaust manifold and bolt it back together so I guess you might be alright with a long day but I'd make sure you have 2 days spare just in case

 

[Budgie]

It's entirely possible to take out the top. Without touching the subframe at all.

 

[Dan@SJM]

^ what he said. Was my favourite way of doing it before I had a workshop.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's entirely possible to take out the top. Without touching the subframe at all.

To take just the box out, and not the engine as well like was being discussed?

I must admit I cant see how, although I have never tried. There just doesnt seem enough width there to be able to get the box far enough away from the engine to clear the spline from the clutch without dropping the frame.

 

[Budgie]

I always move the box off, get my hand in and take the clutch plate off. Gives about an extra 2" room to wiggle it up.

Helps to have the engine on a jack also. Move it up or down to suit the room you need.

Also, last time, i didn't even bother taking the exhaust mani off.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I always move the box off, get my hand in and take the clutch plate off. Gives about an extra 2" room to wiggle it up.

Helps to have the engine on a jack also. Move it up or down to suit the room you need.

Also, last time, i didn't even bother taking the exhaust mani off.

TBH sounds more fiddly as there are all water pipes and PAS pipes and loom etc in the way, so that sounds more aggro than just dropping the frame, but still interesting to hear its possible like that, I honestly wouldnt have thought there was enough space,

 

[guysy]

Right, have read this thread and a lot of threads after searching "sub frame"

I now believe the sub frame bolts go through "captive nuts"? i.e. the nut is welded onto the body of the car and when un tightening the weld can break leaving the bolt spinning around? (writing this for anyone in the future whos interested)

So now I know that, and wanting to avoid having this problem which some have experienced, I of course want to spray the s**t out of the nut and bolt with penetrating fluid. My question is is there a hole or some where where I can get the nozel of my WD40 can into so I can spray each of the 4 nut and bolts in advanced?

Also will the job of installing a new clutch cable with the gearbox out be slightly easier? just wondering.

 

[MartinR]

Ive done a fair few out the top and its pretty straight forward tbh, never tried dropping the subframe though so can't comment which is easiest.

 

[karol_SVK]

I have changed the subframe on my dci100 (hit some wildlife 2y ago quite hard). I unbolted my steeing rack and had one of the front subframe clips spining, but I used all the spanner sets i have 4, all with different offsets one was a perfect match for the steering rack, other for the spining clip. Fortunatelly i have thin hands...

I would not touch the subframe again if there is another way to do the gearbox change tbh.

To your question: You can lubricate the front subframe bolts clips. If you take down your bumber you have great access.

 

[guysy]

The bumper will be off to change the xenon bulbs this week so ill give those a squirt of penetrating fluid then.

Any way to get to the rear bolts? Even if it means drilling a small hole?

Seems that most favour the out the top method! I was hoping out the bottom would be easier. I suppose I could rent an engine crane.

 

[Dan@SJM]

You don't need a crane.

 

[5678]

Hijack... Who's going to be best to take my car to for a box off, agency recon then refit near Reading?

 

[Budgie]

No crane required, just jack on the sump.

You can get Wd40 to the front ones a doddle, and to the rears with a bit of fiddling. Get underneath and have a look and it'll all be apparent

 

[Budgie]

I'm about 45 mins from Reading and will take it out and replace it for beer money.

Will change the clutch and box oil for no extra labour if required.

 

[5678]

Nice one. I'm going to call agency tomorrow to find out costs. I don't suppose you have a 182 box knocking about? Would speed things up a bit.

 

[Budgie]

I don't at the minute. Will have a 172 cup box in known working good condition going spare in a few weeks...

 

[5678]

No problem. Will speak to Agency and find out about couriers. Cheers!

 

[guysy]

You don't need a crane.

To lift the engine out the top? How?

 

[Budgie]

Why are you lifting the engine anywhere?

Just support it from the underside with a jack and leave it in the bay

 

[Dan@SJM]

^what he said. Your only taking the gearbox out.