Gen90 DIY mapping/calibration thread

[scruffydubber]

I thought I'd start a thread to see if anyone one was interested in a collection of details and or questions on the Gen90 ECU. Maybe even share maps to compare configurations (obviously not from dedicated tuners). My thoughts are to assist the like minded DIY enthusiast, not to step on the toes or eliminate the use of any professional mapper.

Loads of other aftermarket ecus have lots of support and info for the DIY enthusiast. Disappointingly there is very little info on the Gen90, I can't even find a manual only the help section in gen90tuner which isn't much help (Maybe Ktec wanted a monopoly on it this way).

So if anyone wants to share setups, manuals, or ask questions maybe this could become a source of info🙂. It also seems that the ecu has a lot more capability then the original Ktec setup. There are a number of "VTEC" maps in there, which are used very basic for switching the dephaser but I was also thinking there is no reason it couldn't run a K20 conversion, especially aiding with easy integration into the rest of the clio setup. Like updating the calibration for the K20 coolant sensor and using the Gen90 to send the correct details to the clocks or rad fan control etc.

I've been setting mine up over the last few months and gained a fair bit of knowledge that might help like minded people. Equally I have many more questions.. I've found the GEMS EM36 manual, and the OMEX600 tuning manual as great sources of info so far. Both these ecus seem to share similar named tables and parameters.

Omex 600 - http://omextechnology.co.uk/600 ECU Tuning Manual 3v10.pdf

GEMS EM36 - https://www.gems.co.uk/assets/Media/downloads/manuals/EM36/EM36 Manual.pdf

One item I'm struggling with on mine is getting the closed loop lambda control to work correctly. I've manually adjusted the majority of the fuel table from taking logs with a wideband lambda and importing the data into the GEMS data analysis tool and making the necessary tweaks. I've now come to the point where I want to get the closed loop lambda control working in the lower revs and throttle positions for better efficiency. I've set my ecu up with one wideband lambda input and a standard narrowband lambda and calibrated the inputs accordingly. Yet I can't get it to control well on either inputs (I must be missing something in the configuration).

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I believe - although could be wrong that both the OMEX 600 and the GEN90 are designed by GEMS so I would expect a fair bit of cross over between the GEN90, Omex 600 and GEMS EM36 software, firmware and hardware wise.

I have no direct experience with any of the GEMS based ecu's however have a fair bit of seat time with Megasquirt (1,2,3) based ecu's, Apexi power commander and AEM. Both on the road and the dyno so would be happy to help if I can.

Closed loop lambda - essentially forget about it until your fuel and ignition tables are perfect. The closed loop lambda is not there to correct your tune, its there to correct for un-tuned variables. Many people will set a lean target AFR and expect the closed loop control to do the rest where in reality this is bad practice.

I expect the closed loop control is PID based? I found it really helpful to do some reading on control theory to get a good understanding of what each of the P,I,D terms meant, there are some great articles about general PID setup. Most will tell you to start off by tuning the system as PI only which means setting the derivative term to zero. I would initially also set the I term to be very small or zero and focus on getting the proportional gain set about right.

Although not directly applicable the Megasquirt guides and documentation are a very good place to learn about general tuning, they are well written and cover most bases.

 

[scruffydubber]

Thanks Rob. Sounds great advice.

So I've basically done this. Using the wideband I've setup the majority of the fuel table to lambda 1 apart from full throttle. And running in open loop it's great.

I now want to go closed loop for the corrections you can't setup for. And when I go into closed loop the fueling is worse than open. I've set it to be used only below 3.5k and 50% throttle.
I use PId tuning at work. And even setup an excel sheet to calculate my parameters based on the feedback.

But I must be missing something in the setup as it just makes it worse. I read the omex can't support using a wideband as closed loop. So I've added a narrowband in and it still doesn't work as desired.

 

[scruffydubber]

There are a few lambda related tables and parameters in there that I'm not sure how they are used. And can't find it in the manuals. I'll post them later maybe you will have an idea.

I don't think it helps that the initial setup on my gen 90 was so far out.

 

[David Stuart]

Good idea to set this up.

My car was turned on throttle bodies and 197 cams by ktec before I bought it.

Overall the map is very very good for a standalone ECU. But I had a few issues.

Cold start - this was ok for the most part but I think it was mapped in the summer in the south west. Very different when in in central Scotland. I got this almost bang on. But the software seems to only have two of the 3/4 options I would expect

1) Prime Pulse (initial injection of fuel to help with the first fire). The Gen90 has this.
2) cranking enrichment. On other ECUs I’ve worked on this controlled cranking and after start by counting the revolutions of the engine after start. Sometimes it’s two seperate tables. Can’t find an equivalent in the Gen90.
3)warm up enrichment. This is a 2D table with just a multiplier. Again the Gen 90 has this.

I’ve used options 1 and 3 to get the starting better but would expect the 2nd option in there somewhere. Let me know if you have found it.

I’ve also had issues with the cold start limiter. I use my car for sprints and hillclimbs. I’ve got some mechanical sympathy and don’t bash the limiter. But I found sometimes with the break between runs that I was hitting the cold limiter. This is pretty easy to adjust and you have two options. So I thought I might share.

1) coolant threshold. This allows you to say below what coolant temp your cold limiter is activated. Mine was set at 50deg. I’m going to try it at 40-45.
2) rpm limit offset. This was set to 1500. So I would be haring up the hill ready to change at 7k but hit 5.5k cold limiter and lose time. I’ve set it to 500rpm now. So most of the time I expect to be up to temp. But on the of occasion I’m not I won’t be losing time by unexpectedly hitting the limiter.

The other thing I want to do is set up launch control. Any advise appreciated on this. I’ve found the options and selected the RPM, speed threshold etc. But the thing I’m missing is the activation input. I guess this will need to be a switch of some kind that I would configure in the parameters but if anyone has done this give me a shout. If I figure it out I’ll post up here.

Thanks
David.


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[David Stuart]

Some pics for a word heavy thread.

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[scruffydubber]

Thanks for sharing David.
I've also been playing with the cold start map. I'll share my setting and specs for comparison. (yours are probably better)

I thought I had it nailed. Then reminded myself it's around 8 degrees here this week. Where as last week it was around - 1. So I think I'll have to revisit this one.

My work in progress picture.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

There are a few lambda related tables and parameters in there that I'm not sure how they are used. And can't find it in the manuals. I'll post them later maybe you will have an idea.

I don't think it helps that the initial setup on my gen 90 was so far out.

Yes post them up I'm just having a read through the OMEX 600 manual to see how they have implemented it. Some ecu's use a weird implementation of PID which is not inline with usual industrial PID controllers. One ecu (I forget which, I'll have a look though my maps backup to see if I can find it) needed quite a bit of integral gain for it to work which is completed at odds with usual control theory.

Does your tuning software have any gauges to show how hard the closed loop is trying to correct in MS this is labeled as EGO Correction in %. I would maybe try to get the car running at the correct afr (so actual and target are pretty close) then adjust the closed loop lambda to get the smallest correction, then I would change the target gradually to see how hard it trys - making especially sure its trying in the right direction!

 

[incy-spider]

Good idea this thread, I’ve been using the Gen90 in my turbo build for over 7years so have built quite a friendship with Andy Cutler and Chris@efi as I’ve been between them both at different ‘stages’ of tune from low boost without boost control, low boost with boost control, many tweeks and different firmware along the way too..

Up to the point of having 280hp with Meg 225 injectors I was always told that the GEN90 struggles with 630cc and larger injectors so I left it at 280hp until I was told that the GEN90 is very capable of doing larger injectors by Andy so I bit the bullet and opted for a much nicer Gen2 2860r turbo and 630cc Siemens Deka injectors.

The power quickly surpassed 280hp and 350hp was easily achieved, @15-16psi I opted to dial it back a tad as the torque was climbing out of my clutches limits.

All this with the best drivability it’s ever had and it was very good before on 225 injectors.. I’m very fussy!!

So to see some gen90 love is great, it’s an old but surprisingly capable ECU all be it switchable maps would be a bonus!

I have pin outs for the gen90 and lots of previous maps if anyone needs help for base maps etc (all turbo) also the guru on this ECU is Andy @ Phoenix automotive technologies for the larger injectors and throttle control knowledge and obviously Chris@ efi is mustard too [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


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[scruffydubber]

Good idea this thread, I’ve been using the Gen90 in my turbo build for over 7years so have built quite a friendship with Andy Cutler and Chris@efi as I’ve been between them both at different ‘stages’ of tune from low boost without boost control, low boost with boost control, many tweeks and different firmware along the way too..

Up to the point of having 280hp with Meg 225 injectors I was always told that the GEN90 struggles with 630cc and larger injectors so I left it at 280hp until I was told that the GEN90 is very capable of doing larger injectors by Andy so I bit the bullet and opted for a much nicer Gen2 2860r turbo and 630cc Siemens Deka injectors.

The power quickly surpassed 280hp and 350hp was easily achieved, @15-16psi I opted to dial it back a tad as the torque was climbing out of my clutches limits.

All this with the best drivability it’s ever had and it was very good before on 225 injectors.. I’m very fussy!!

So to see some gen90 love is great, it’s an old but surprisingly capable ECU all be it switchable maps would be a bonus!

I have pin outs for the gen90 and lots of previous maps if anyone needs help for base maps etc (all turbo) also the guru on this ECU is Andy @ Phoenix automotive technologies for the larger injectors and throttle control knowledge and obviously Chris@ efi is mustard too [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


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Thanks Incy-spider. You've helped me previously with the pinout information. I'll see if I can attach it to this thread to help any others in the future.

I would be very interested to look at and compare your old maps to my settings. Completely different setups, but the reason I got the software and ecu and started this thread was to learn further about it.

 

[scruffydubber]

Yes post them up I'm just having a read through the OMEX 600 manual to see how they have implemented it. Some ecu's use a weird implementation of PID which is not inline with usual industrial PID controllers. One ecu (I forget which, I'll have a look though my maps backup to see if I can find it) needed quite a bit of integral gain for it to work which is completed at odds with usual control theory.

Does your tuning software have any gauges to show how hard the closed loop is trying to correct in MS this is labeled as EGO Correction in %. I would maybe try to get the car running at the correct afr (so actual and target are pretty close) then adjust the closed loop lambda to get the smallest correction, then I would change the target gradually to see how hard it trys - making especially sure its trying in the right direction!

So it might be the case I haven't found the correct channel yet. I've been looking at two channels OX error (which i believe is the difference from actual afr to target) afr). And OX FB which is a percentage error like you talked off. Unfortunately (at least in my current setup) these channels only seem to work when closed loop is enabled.

I believe the OX FB percentage comes from another map which I think is based from the error value. I've struggled to find information on quite how this table is used, is maybe where i'm going wrong.

For example at idle in open loop at idle I might close to 14,7afr. when I enable the closed loop the OX FB percentage goes to a max value of 20% which doesn't seem correct as it was close in the first place. I've spent many hours playing around with no real progress.

Maybe unrelated when I first setup the wideband input I set the calibration and used the lambda input setup in the plug and play setup, but it wouldn't match the gauge. After many hours messing about I set the wideband up onto a spare channel and it worked perfectly. I think I'll try this with the narrowband too. Maybe the two original lambda inputs on my ecu are damaged, or maybe these inputs are different than a normal 0-5v input.

I'll try and get some screen shots of the tables and setting together.

 

[adir]

@NorthloopCup is that what we talked about ? 😅

It's about time really!
I'm on progress to fit a 197 complete engine in a 172 she'll.
Knowing it has been done before by Mark, I was confident to start working on a loom to accept the 197 cam position sensor/coil on plug/ 197 dephaser and so on..
K-tec basically said they can't help, and it's never been done before. And that the ECU not supporting the mods I want to have.
Long story short, if not Mark and Chris from EFI, I wouldn't stand a chance to figure it out by myself.
I have a pinout to share for a gen90 if it helps.

Hopefully this thread will grow on.

How do I uploaded a word file here ?
Or I must convert it to pdf*

 

[scruffydubber]

PDF attached of ecu pinout. (can only attached pdf)

 

[incy-spider]

PDF attached of ecu pinout. (can only attached pdf)

I was worried you may have missed the I/O numbers when I sent this to you as it’s easily missed


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[scruffydubber]

@NorthloopCup is that what we talked about ? 😅

It's about time really!
I'm on progress to fit a 197 complete engine in a 172 she'll.
Knowing it has been done before by Mark, I was confident to start working on a loom to accept the 197 cam position sensor/coil on plug/ 197 dephaser and so on..
K-tec basically said they can't help, and it's never been done before. And that the ECU not supporting the mods I want to have.
Long story short, if not Mark and Chris from EFI, I wouldn't stand a chance to figure it out by myself.
I have a pinout to share for a gen90 if it helps.

Hopefully this thread will grow on.

How do I uploaded a word file here ?
Or I must convert it to off ?

I just had to convert to pdf to attach.

Sounds a great project.
One thing I've struggled to find info on - It seems like there are various parts in the software that I can't find the pinout for. I've not looked into the cam sensor, but for example I suspect you can set it up in the software, but its not listed in the pinout info i have.

 

[adir]

Well.. I guess it's the same , just looks a little bit different.
It can't harm to have another one 😅

 

[adir]

I couldn't describe it better..
I have the "pro" software from ktec, and honestly, I never seen something so unorganized. Find what you want in there is impossible mission 🤣
I wish it was more like emerald software

 

[scruffydubber]

Well.. I guess it's the same , just looks a little bit different.
It can't harm to have another one 😅

More info the better. Just noticed "Cam2" is listed

 

[incy-spider]

Pin 88 is boost control


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[adir]

More info the better. Just noticed "Cam2" is listed

Yes.. but I wasn't sure if that's the only signal that goes to the ECU.
I have a 197 oem diagram, and it looks like the sensor have 3 wires + after ignition and 2 wires to the ECU one signal, and the other "ECU earth".
From what I know, that ECU earth is +5 volt, not 12 right ?

 

[scruffydubber]

Pin 88 is boost control


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Great. hopefully this thread helps build a source of info

 

[scruffydubber]

Yes.. but I wasn't sure if that's the only signal that goes to the ECU.
I have a 197 oem diagram, and it looks like the sensor have 3 wires + after ignition and 2 wires to the ECU one signal, and the other "ECU earth".
From what I know, that ECU earth is +5 volt, not 12 right ?

ECU earth should be a ground back to the ecu. I believe the idea is to eliminate any ground loops. In reality if your engine and ecu are all grounded correctly I don't think it would make any difference.

Pins 73, 75 and 79 and more are all analogue grounds. I suspect these will all be linked internally and any could be used for ecu ground.

 

[adir]

See..
You just started it, and it already helps !

 

[scruffydubber]

See..
You just started it, and it already helps !

Should be good for bouncing ideas and info around.

 

[scruffydubber]

1) Prime Pulse (initial injection of fuel to help with the first fire). The Gen90 has this.
2) cranking enrichment. On other ECUs I’ve worked on this controlled cranking and after start by counting the revolutions of the engine after start. Sometimes it’s two seperate tables. Can’t find an equivalent in the Gen90.
3)warm up enrichment. This is a 2D table with just a multiplier. Again the Gen 90 has this.

I’ve used options 1 and 3 to get the starting better but would expect the 2nd option in there somewhere. Let me know if you have found it.

@David Stuart

So for option 2 I have used "Start fuel coolant table" which I believe is similar to the cranking enrichment. I have also used "start fuel decay table" which I believe is how quickly the start fuel table enrichment decays. I could also be well off the mark of how these are used.

Start fuel coolant table -

Start fuel decay table -

Option 1 table Start pulse -

Option 3 Coolant fuel trim (mine is running abit to rich on warm up i think)

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ok, so this is PIN numbers you need to use on the Gen90 to run the camshaft sensor - as per 197 head conversion that I ran. There are also 2 different cam sensors between the 197 and the 200. The following information is suited to the 197 cam sensor. The 200 sensor pin outs may be the same, but I don’t know as it’s not the setup I ran.

Pin 79 Gen90 = Earth/Ground. Pin 1 = Earth/Ground on sensor.

Pin 78 Gen90 = Power 5 volts. Pin 3 = Power on sensor.

Pin 74 Gen90 = Signal/Can. Pin 2 = Signal on sensor.

This is the exact layout that I used on mine and it required a change in the ecu’s aspect file. That was done when the car was up with Scoff @ efi for mapping. He liased with Sean @ Ktec.

@adir here you go fella

 

[Robbie Corbett]

@David Stuart

So for option 2 I have used "Start fuel coolant table" which I believe is similar to the cranking enrichment. I have also used "start fuel decay table" which I believe is how quickly the start fuel table enrichment decays. I could also be well off the mark of how these are used.

Start fuel coolant table -
View attachment 1522870

Start fuel decay table -
View attachment 1522871

Option 1 table Start pulse -
View attachment 1522872

Option 3 Coolant fuel trim (mine is running abit to rich on warm up i think)
View attachment 1522873

Watch the values below -10. We are unlikely to hit temperatures that low in the UK - a duff sensor could mean you seriously flood the engine. For my cars I don't go below 0 as they never get started or driven at those temperatures so any vale below 0 is set to the 0 deg value.

Do you have any tables for adjusting the start fuel as a function of throttle pedal position? I quite like that option on other systems as you can set the start up to be slightly lean, then as you open the throttle the car starts, saves constantly flooding the engine during initial set up. Although your car might start with too much fuel you will find the oil quite quickly begins to smell of petrol.

 

[scruffydubber]

Ok, so this is PIN numbers you need to use on the Gen90 to run the camshaft sensor - as per 197 head conversion that I ran. There are also 2 different cam sensors between the 197 and the 200. The following information is suited to the 197 cam sensor. The 200 sensor pin outs may be the same, but I don’t know as it’s not the setup I ran.

Pin 79 Gen90 = Earth/Ground. Pin 1 = Earth/Ground on sensor.

Pin 78 Gen90 = Power 5 volts. Pin 3 = Power on sensor.

Pin 74 Gen90 = Signal/Can. Pin 2 = Signal on sensor.

This is the exact layout that I used on mine and it required a change in the ecu’s aspect file. That was done when the car was up with Scoff @ efi for mapping. He liased with Sean @ Ktec.

@adir here you go fella

That's useful thanks. So should be able to go full sequential igniton

 

[NorthloopCup]

That's useful thanks. So should be able to go full sequential igniton

That’s how mine was yeah. Just retained the semi sequential on the coil on plug.

The cam sensor is mainly there to run the fully variable vvt that the mk3 runs.

 

[scruffydubber]

Watch the values below -10. We are unlikely to hit temperatures that low in the UK - a duff sensor could mean you seriously flood the engine. For my cars I don't go below 0 as they never get started or driven at those temperatures so any vale below 0 is set to the 0 deg value.

Do you have any tables for adjusting the start fuel as a function of throttle pedal position? I quite like that option on other systems as you can set the start up to be slightly lean, then as you open the throttle the car starts, saves constantly flooding the engine during initial set up. Although your car might start with too much fuel you will find the oil quite quickly begins to smell of petrol.

Thanks Touring Rob. Sounds like a great bit of advice, I'll tweak mine now before I forget.

Interestingly I've been out this evening for a very short run and my lambda control seemed to be working.

I'm wondering if some of the changes I've been making don't live tune in, and maybe the ecu needs a reset or full reprogram. Or earlier I had it idling for a long time and I wonder if it had an effect on the lambda readings.
At least it seems to be doing something now.

 

[scruffydubber]

That’s how mine was yeah. Just retained the semi sequential on the coil on plug.

The cam sensor is mainly there to run the fully variable vvt that the mk3 runs.

I do like the idea of using some R8 style coil on plugs. They look cool if nothing else, hahah

 

[adir]

Ok, so this is PIN numbers you need to use on the Gen90 to run the camshaft sensor - as per 197 head conversion that I ran. There are also 2 different cam sensors between the 197 and the 200. The following information is suited to the 197 cam sensor. The 200 sensor pin outs may be the same, but I don’t know as it’s not the setup I ran.

Pin 79 Gen90 = Earth/Ground. Pin 1 = Earth/Ground on sensor.

Pin 78 Gen90 = Power 5 volts. Pin 3 = Power on sensor.

Pin 74 Gen90 = Signal/Can. Pin 2 = Signal on sensor.

This is the exact layout that I used on mine and it required a change in the ecu’s aspect file. That was done when the car was up with Scoff @ efi for mapping. He liased with Sean @ Ktec.

@adir here you go fella

Ty so much @NorthloopCup
this is a true savior mate !
Chris found your old map, and will alter it to work with standard 197 engine, so I should be good with that I suppose .
If it's not too hussle to ask for the rest of the loom diagram/pinout, just to make sure I didn't missed out other connectors as we'll . Coil on package and so..

Anyway, thx again

 

[adir]

Don't mind me, just noticed you did mention the coil on plug 🤦

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Thanks Touring Rob. Sounds like a great bit of advice, I'll tweak mine now before I forget.

Interestingly I've been out this evening for a very short run and my lambda control seemed to be working.

I'm wondering if some of the changes I've been making don't live tune in, and maybe the ecu needs a reset or full reprogram. Or earlier I had it idling for a long time and I wonder if it had an effect on the lambda readings.
At least it seems to be doing something now.

No worries really glad its working now!

How good is the ecu/tuning software's ability to data log?

 

[incy-spider]

No worries really glad its working now!

How good is the ecu/tuning software's ability to data log?

Very good, internal and software


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[NorthloopCup]

I do like the idea of using some R8 style coil on plugs. They look cool if nothing else, hahah

Yeah we are using some of those on @Tom Johnson ’s race engine

 

[scruffydubber]

No worries really glad its working now!

How good is the ecu/tuning software's ability to data log?

Painful hahah. To be honest I don't have any road car stuff to compare it to.

I suppose it's okay. I've been setting the channels up in the gentuner software, saving and exporting into GEMS data analysis software. Maybe better software to use, I'll have to look into it.
The resolution of some of the channels isn't great, and I haven't worked out how to set the logging frequency.

 

[scruffydubber]

Very good, internal and software


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I've not tried the internal logging, I'll have to give this a go

Yeah we are using some of those on @Tom Johnson ’s race engine

That must be the picture I've seen, saved and drooled over.

 

[David Stuart]

Watch the values below -10. We are unlikely to hit temperatures that low in the UK - a duff sensor could mean you seriously flood the engine. For my cars I don't go below 0 as they never get started or driven at those temperatures so any vale below 0 is set to the 0 deg value.

Do you have any tables for adjusting the start fuel as a function of throttle pedal position? I quite like that option on other systems as you can set the start up to be slightly lean, then as you open the throttle the car starts, saves constantly flooding the engine during initial set up. Although your car might start with too much fuel you will find the oil quite quickly begins to smell of petrol.

Yeah. I’ve heard of people mapping in no fuel at 100% TPS and 500 RPM as a “flood clear” as well. I’ve never done it but the idea is that full throttle off the key if you flood your engine it gives you a means to just pump air through it and try again.

I’m personally trying to get a start off the key with no throttle input. I think you are right that the decay and the coolant factor work together as 2 2D tables that would be a crank count / coolant factor on other ECUs.


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[Robbie Corbett]

Yeah. I’ve heard of people mapping in no fuel at 100% TPS and 500 RPM as a “flood clear” as well. I’ve never done it but the idea is that full throttle off the key if you flood your engine it gives you a means to just pump air through it and try again.

I’m personally trying to get a start off the key with no throttle input. I think you are right that the decay and the coolant factor work together as 2 2D tables that would be a crank count / coolant factor on other ECUs.


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Yes flood clear is quite standard and very handy sometimes!

Setting enrichment based on TPS (if that option is available) can be really helpful, either leave it so on a warm day it will start on the button, but on a cold day you add throttle (to minimise the risk of flooding due to excessive and untested enrichment) OR data log to see how much throttle got the car started nicely, helps you get in the right ball park.

I personally prefer to leave it so on a cold day you need to add a little throttle - reason being that with very cold engines I prefer to get a few extra revolutions of the engine before it starts - although more recently I have added a fuel pump kill switch for this reason... Some of the cars I don't drive for weeks or months which is a touch deal for them come start up with no oil at the top end.