Getting my Clio at 195-200 bhp with Schrick cams (advice needed)

[Gerben Visser]

Guys,

Finally found some cams for my Clio 172 so we can start building. Found some lovely Schrick cams, really happy with them.

Aiming at 195-200 bhp with matched inlets, Schrick cams, KTR style induction (DIY) and remap by Henk from fastchip. Couple of questions, maybe someone can help me with this:

1. Can I mount the Schricks at standard timing marks? I Have experience with aftermarket cams, so I can time them as well, but when they should be at the stock marks it is a peace of cake.

2. Can I use my Ram Air filter? It is already on the car, but I am not sure it can make 200bhp? What do you think? To small or okay for this application? They have a bigger one, but I am afraid it won`t fit behind the headlight.

This one I have in 70mm neck: http://ramair-filters.co.uk/cc-rubb...iversal-performance-induction-air-filter.html

3. How is the performance of the original exhaust (with decat)? I don`t like a loud exhaust system, so the original exhaust would be fine for me. But is it really limiting the engine? Or is it no problem at all for performance? I think the size is perfect already? About 2,25 inch or something?

Don't want to loose some horsepower at exhaust and air filter, because then I am spilling the gains from the cams and other mods. Would be a shame when I add 20-30 bhp with the mods, but loosing 10 with wrong exhaust and air filter. You guys understand what I mean with this?

Let me know please, hope to hear from you!

Regards,
Gerben

 

[danward]

I would be surprised if you could get to 200 with the mods you have planned.

 

[Andyman]

I would guess mid 180 - 190 is a more realistic figure. To be wanting 195 - 200 is really going to be pushing it.

 

[Gerben Visser]

Guys,

In my opinion it is not unrealistic? The Schricks cams are good and they give good gains. Frank from the Netherlands (also a member here) has done 180bhp at the wheels (so 205 at the crank) with the same mods (only a 182 exhaust manifold which I don`t have).

But, it doesn`t mather for my questions. So please forget the numbers (maybe I am in the right range) and help me out!

Edit: I have seen a lot of figures here with 195 bhp with the same mods, only with 421`s for example......

 

[jjones82]

Yeah I made 189.9bhp with ED dynamic cams (same timings as schrick IIRC) exhaust, decat, induction, ported/ matched inlet manifold, if your lucky you may just break the 190 mark.
Not sure on the standard exhaust but if it is 2.25 you should be ok as i know someone had ITB with an aftermarket 2.25 exhaust for the quietness and that made over 200bhp.
The filter should be ok too, i assume its a DIY k-tec style? I had a 70mm piper cross cylinder type filter on mine

 

[Andyman]

Guys,

In my opinion it is not unrealistic? The Schricks cams are good and they give good gains. Frank from the Netherlands (also a member here) has done 180bhp at the wheels (so 205 at the crank) with the same mods (only a 182 exhaust manifold which I don`t have).

But, it doesn`t mather for my questions. So please forget the numbers (maybe I am in the right range) and help me out!

Edit: I have seen a lot of figures here with 195 bhp with the same mods, only with 421`s for example......

Schricks are really good cams but to save disappointment its always best (imo) to aim for the averages. 195 - 200 is going to be really pushing it.

180 @ the wheels is just ridiculous. No chance with cams. Thats 40 - 50bhp over standard just with cams. No way.

 

[Mr R.]

Never going to happen.

 

[SharkyUK]

Schrick cams are awesome but, as suggested, 200bhp may be a little optimistic. Even so, correctly installed they will be a very nice addition to your car

1. Do you have the correct tools and know the procedure for doing the cams on these cars? If not you can easily lose any benefits the Schrick cams may give you.
2. I don't think the filter will make much difference at all. Personally I preferred the standard airbox and that performed fine for this level of modification.
3. Again, I don't think the exhaust will make a big difference here. I'd stick with what you've got if you're happy with it.

Just my opinions of course

 

[Gerben Visser]

Guys,

Thanks for you comments. I would be happy with 180-190 bhp as well, but think I can do some more! Read a lot about Schricks and I am not the only one talking about 200 bhp. But for my questions it does not mather, still the same issues.

Schrick cams are awesome but, as suggested, 200bhp may be a little optimistic. Even so, correctly installed they will be a very nice addition to your car

1. Do you have the correct tools and know the procedure for doing the cams on these cars? If not you can easily lose any benefits the Schrick cams may give you.
2. I don't think the filter will make much difference at all. Personally I preferred the standard airbox and that performed fine for this level of modification.
3. Again, I don't think the exhaust will make a big difference here. I'd stick with what you've got if you're happy with it.

Just my opinions of course

Thank you very much! My dad is a car mechanic and knows some people at the Renault garage, so I can borrow the tools from there. Only thing is, can you mount them at the standard timing marks? Otherwise I can do it with a degree wheel, but when they are at the normal markings it is a very easy job with the right tools. You know maybe?

 

[Gerben Visser]

For example, BTM has a lot of good experience with Schricks:

to save arguement, generally from what i've seen

CAT - give more torque (into the 180's)

Schrick - give more bhp (just over 200 has been seen with 175)

i'm not sure what warranty comes with CAT, but Schricks have a 12month unlimited mileage warranty

For now we talked enough about numbers, it doesn`t matter. We shall see, just want some information!

 

[bozothenutter]

they are supposed to be mounted with the standard tools/timing, as are all the aftermarket cams as far as I know only the 197 cams require different timing.

 

[Gerben Visser]

Bozo,

Thank you, thats clear for me then! Did not know that almost all aftermarket cams can be timed at standard timing. Expected it to be a little bit harder....

 

[Mr R.]

My 421's are on standard timing.

 

[SharkyUK]

For example, BTM has a lot of good experience with Schricks:

Yes, Fred@BTM is building my new engine and I've used Schrick cams as well

As bozo says, I am also under the impression that standard timing is to be used (although some specialists may tweak things very subtly depending on the car configuration and goals).

 

[Fred@BTM]

*200bhp if you believe the dyno

we fitted a set to a 172 cup a few years ago, with decat+exhaust+map it ran 14.2 1/4 Santa pod which is quite good!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Yes, @Fred@BTM is building my new engine and I've used Schrick cams as well

As bozo says, I am also under the impression that standard timing is to be used (although some specialists may tweak things very subtly depending on the car configuration and goals).

building? last time i checked it was finished, therefore built

 

[SharkyUK]

Haha, yes indeed. BUILT! And driven no less

 

[Chi]

and mapped dare I say?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Sharky's? nope, needs MOT first

 

[Gerben Visser]

Fred,

What do you think about my 3 questions? So Filter, Exhaust and Timing of the Schricks? You`re the expert, so can you say something about it?

 

[Fred@BTM]

standard timing is fine
air filter - doesn't matter what you fit, they all do the same thing
exhaust will be a problem yes, nothing major, but the stock item is a bit on the restrictive side, doubt you break a true 190 with it

 

[Gerben Visser]

standard timing is fine
air filter - doesn't matter what you fit, they all do the same thing
exhaust will be a problem yes, nothing major, but the stock item is a bit on the restrictive side, doubt you break a true 190 with it

Air filter is not to small? I know they al do the same thing, but the size is important I think?

Whats the problem with the exhaust? The size of the pipe (diameter) or the silencers which are restrictive? I can consider a K-TEC stealth with sillenced mid section, but is that a real performance exhaust? I know the Yozza`s do it very well, but it is way to loud for me.

 

[Fred@BTM]

stock airbox is fine, we've done 193bhp on RS Tuning's dyno with one

the bend on the intake hose is more of a problem, stock one is rubbish!!

you try breathing through just a straw and you'll get what i mean!


Generally with these clios, power = noise to some extent, you can't have one without the other (unless you go turbo)

 

[Mr R.]

Mine made 192.1 at RS Tuning with the standard ph1 air box and elbow.

 

[Gerben Visser]

Guys,

I have this filter: http://ramair-filters.co.uk/cc-rubb...iversal-performance-induction-air-filter.html

Made a KTR style induction with 2 silicone elbows (90 degree), but I am not sure that this air filter is big enough, so that was my question.

Understand your answer about the exhaust, going to shop for a aftermarket system them. or maybe I weld something myself with performance silencers between or something.

 

[MartinR]

Filter will have no effect imo. And as said stock is good enough.

Personally i think you will struggle to break out of the 180's but thats just my opinion.

Health of the engine also plays part. Most of the higher figures you see bouncing about are from very well looked after cars or have had some kind of rebuild work done.

Good luck in tbe search for 200bhp.

 

[kellyboy]

Maybe you can check phase1sr his topic. He has written the mods he has done. Than you know how you can reach 190/200 bhp. Air filter, exhaust systeem are just small things. I will take some serious cash to reach the number you want.

 

[warwickstingray]

Don't worry about the peak figure. A nice spread of power is far more important. Having a good gain from 5000rpm-6000rpm would certainly be useful when you change into 4th which is when you are really reminded that the car is N/A with standard power. Pulls well but it's when you really start to get hammered by the turbo bridgade. I changed chokes once on some twin 40s to too big a size and got a higher figure but it was actually faster before. I had gained for 500rpm but lost everywhere else. Having 180-190 for longer is far more important than having 200 just for a bit. Forget power figures. Time it before and after. A faster car is surely what matters.

 

[Gerben Visser]

Everybody is talking about the 190-200 bhp, but that is not really my point. I know everything about tuning and that peak power is just bullshit if you have nothing at low rpm`s. I do al lot of 2 stroke racing (in competition) and therefore a lot of dyno experience. Don`t look at peak figures and don`t compare different dynos and so on.

I only mentions this figures (190-200 bhp) to let you all know that I am looking for serious gains. I think I can win some power with the Schrick cams, but don’t want to spill power with exhaust and other small mods (because then it is not worth to buy expensive cams). If I reach 180 bhp and the car is way much quicker, than it is okay for me! Not going to cry when I only get 180 bhp, but still I think it is possible to score about 190-195 bhp (but we have to wait on the results).

I`ll hope you all understand my story and forget the peak value’s, I only wanted to let you know that I am looking for serious gains, doesn`t matter if it will be 185 or 210 bhp.

Thanks all for the information, I will let you guys know how it ended and share the results. Tomorrow I have the cams and I can start with building. Don’t expect results within a couple of weeks, going to do everything myself, so I will take some time. Also Henk from fastchip is not in the Netherlands, so I have to wait with my remap until he is back from the Filipinos.

Regards,
Gerben

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

What figures are you car producing currently?

 

[Gerben Visser]

I don`t know! It is just a healthy engine with low kilometers, never been on the rolling road.

But forget the peak figures, it was not really my point....

 

[LiamR172]

Just get some ITBs

 

[franx]

Schricks are really good cams but to save disappointment its always best (imo) to aim for the averages. 195 - 200 is going to be really pushing it.

180 @ the wheels is just ridiculous. No chance with cams. Thats 40 - 50bhp over standard just with cams. No way.

Sounds silly éh , these bar/pub-horsepower claims ! My car (engine) has been rebuilt. A Ph1 engine was overhauled and i threw in some Schricks. Henk did the mapping. The high outcome also put me in a kind of disbelief. Afterwards I emailed Henk to ask if he was sure on these figures and the roller output ; he assured me about the output and the rollers.
Whatever... it goes like stink. Really.
Mind you Gerben, i have matched inlets, a V6 air box straight onto the TB (which it really seems to benefit from , i've experimented a LOT with filter setups) , 182 manifold, no cat, 63mm sport exhaust made by the good old british Tiger (quality from the old days or so i'm told). The air in and the exhaust out should be taken care of when setting up cams.
Henk , care to elaborate ? (if u read this ofcourse)

Good luck Gerben, btw do you know the cam profile of your Schricks ?

 

[Westyfield2]

Get it on a Rolling Road before you go changing anything, and then use the same Rolling Road afterwards.

 

[Wazzy]

I don`t know! It is just a healthy engine with low kilometers, never been on the rolling road.

But forget the peak figures, it was not really my point....

Rolling road it first to determine how strong your engine is in it's current form, low mileage means very little in terms of power and then mod from there. Can't see a 160-165ish bhp standard car making 190-200bhp from cams and an exhaust though.

 

[warwickstingray]

It's always dangerous to talk figures on this forum!

 

[benbruvaa23]

Mine made 192.1 at RS Tuning with the standard ph1 air box and elbow.

This include two phase one cocold air feeds or best without

 

[Mr R.]

This include two phase one cocold air feeds or best without

Yes the standard PH1 cold air feeds mate.

 

[benbruvaa23]

The only place I could fit was above the Horne with cable tied couldn't find a better place to put it well we're It would fit is this were you put yours as I removed acoustic valve