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Got caster yo
- Thread starter Chip-mk1
- Start date
Spacers would make it worse, different offset wheels could cure it though..
Different offset wheels would be mechanically identical to spacers if you mean different offset to widen the track.
and if you mean to narrow the track that would be massively counter-productive.
Yes exactly that mate, gravity stabilises it.
Top work mate! Thats more like itJust had it measured.
Six degrees of caster
Yes!! Would be good if could pull the top back a bit and give more Caster and clearance!
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Having done 2 track days this weekend
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Poxy iPhone!
Having done 2 trackdays this weekend, I can safely say, anyone with a Ph1 172 needs to find some cup wishbones. The difference is totally incredible!!
Having done 2 trackdays this weekend, I can safely say, anyone with a Ph1 172 needs to find some cup wishbones. The difference is totally incredible!!
shiftspark
ClioSport Club Member
R53 GR86
Hi
In what way , turn in , more front end grip or better tyre wear/temps ??
Cheers
In what way , turn in , more front end grip or better tyre wear/temps ??
Cheers
182cup & 172 racecar
Colin, turn in and grip seemed great, sorry I cannot vouch for the rest, as I don't know.
shiftspark
ClioSport Club Member
R53 GR86
I assume you were there today Tony ?
Are you just on the cup arms Michael or moddified like Chips?
Cheers
Are you just on the cup arms Michael or moddified like Chips?
Cheers
182cup & 172 racecar
Trax?, no chance lol.
Drove it on Friday at Bedford, great little machine. A little stiffer on the front, and map out the flat spot. Be even better.
shiftspark
ClioSport Club Member
R53 GR86
^ ok thanks Tony
Mike's on Cup wishbones which on his phase 1 gave a total caster of 4.8 degrees IIRC.
Drives fantastically, like Tony says the turn in on mikes car is very impressive in particular, but stability overall is just really good, its a very predictable setup, perfect really for a road car thats on track occasionally.
172 Ph1
Do you have any pics of side wheel view, would like to see how far forward the wheel goes. I take it Mike has no rubbing issues Chip ?
I havent got a side on of mikes, but there is one of mine at the start of the thread:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...F-8A58-B1F5B8E2D2C0-7916-000005A0DE13D5EB.jpg
Mikes doesnt rub at all, the cup wishbones are the ideal compromise really, still a good increase, but without all the drama.
Thats what Ive just fitted to my mrs 172 in fact, rather than bother making another customer set just for an extra degree or two.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...F-8A58-B1F5B8E2D2C0-7916-000005A0DE13D5EB.jpg
Mikes doesnt rub at all, the cup wishbones are the ideal compromise really, still a good increase, but without all the drama.
Thats what Ive just fitted to my mrs 172 in fact, rather than bother making another customer set just for an extra degree or two.
172 Ph1
So if I was to put the Cup wishbones on my Ph1*2 roughly by how much wider track do they produce as I'm running spacers and I would want to reduce as I don't want it sticking out to wide
182cup & 172 racecar
None.
172 Ph1
Cheers Tony
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
So what were the differences in caster between the standard wishbone, the Cup one and your modifed one Mike/Chip please?
Got two sets of cup wishbones and looking to get quite a bit of caster for the racecar we're building, looking to incorportate some AST topmounts also for added caster.
Nick
Got two sets of cup wishbones and looking to get quite a bit of caster for the racecar we're building, looking to incorportate some AST topmounts also for added caster.
Nick
Roughly speaking its about 2 degrees extra for the cup wishbones and another 2 degrees for the way that I did it.
We havent had them both on the same car though and obviously things like front versus rear ride height etc effects the figures.
The problem with the ones I did is a lack of clearance, but if you are cutting out the excess weight on a racer, you'll no doubt not mind that, so I would go with doing it that way.
you would be better off starting with normal wishbones than cup ones, so that you dont end up joining the two holes together.
You have to cut down an allen key to get onto the cap head bolt is the one other pain with doing it my way.
We havent had them both on the same car though and obviously things like front versus rear ride height etc effects the figures.
The problem with the ones I did is a lack of clearance, but if you are cutting out the excess weight on a racer, you'll no doubt not mind that, so I would go with doing it that way.
you would be better off starting with normal wishbones than cup ones, so that you dont end up joining the two holes together.
You have to cut down an allen key to get onto the cap head bolt is the one other pain with doing it my way.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Havent you got a 182 nick?
Okay thats cool, cheers Chip. We're not doing anything too mad with our build but adding a bit of caster will help and like you said we'll be happy to cut the bumper tabs away, even part of the front bumper to allow for wheel clearance.
I cant remember how much the AST topmounts add casterwise, will have to find out. Hopefully if we were to do the wishbones your way, plus add the topmounts that should be ample caster!
Broken that 182 for spares Mike, now got a caged better spec 172 Cup to improve on.
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
As chip said, for a 172 cup, you'd be better off buying so non cup wishbones as the front hole is closer to the back of the wishbone, and drilling them forward.
As the cup wishbone already has the hole nearer the front the new hole you drill will become overlapped with the old. Not that I think this would be a problem, but to step on the side of caution, it's best to have some meat Inbetween.
I think chip has a spare set of non cup wishbones as he's just fitted cup wishbones to his mrs, non cup car.
As the cup wishbone already has the hole nearer the front the new hole you drill will become overlapped with the old. Not that I think this would be a problem, but to step on the side of caution, it's best to have some meat Inbetween.
I think chip has a spare set of non cup wishbones as he's just fitted cup wishbones to his mrs, non cup car.
p@blo
ClioSport Club Member
Clio/A3
I are confused. Can you offer a factual explanation as to why your current level of caster is insufficient Nick?
Yeah okay i'll look into getting a non cup wishbones, polybushing them and adding the caster that way. Indeed reliability is the key in out race build. Will speak to Chip tonight at the Shires meet, you coming also?
I are confused. Can you offer a factual explanation as to why your current level of caster is insufficient Nick?
I cant give you a factual explanation tbh but given that Mike and Chip have added caster to their cars and have seen improvements in the way the car handles.
The only thing I do see as a benefit to adding more caster is better traction all round, corners more so. If we can get both wheels having a larger contact patch through a corner, coupled with a differential should see quick corners speeds = quicker lap times.
By all means school me if you so wish if i'm incorrect.
Nick
Biggest advantage of more caster is that it allows you to run less static camber, although it is also very good for braking stability as well.
Im pretty sure I binned the old standard ones off my Mrs car sadly mate, but im sure you can find some mega cheap anyway as they arent exactly a rare or expensive item.
In fact if you put up a thread offering to swap standard for cup ones, I should think someone will rip your arm off for them.
Im pretty sure I binned the old standard ones off my Mrs car sadly mate, but im sure you can find some mega cheap anyway as they arent exactly a rare or expensive item.
In fact if you put up a thread offering to swap standard for cup ones, I should think someone will rip your arm off for them.
Lol, i'll wont be swapping these arms with anyone Chip, i'll be selling them I think seeing as its highly likely that Renault arent making them anymore!
Nice idea, not sure how much caster I'll be able to get with my strut towers but if I need/want more something along the lines of what you've done is defo the way to go.
Where exactly was it catching? bracket at the edge of the wing/bumper or just rubbing on the inner wheel arch in general?
Where exactly was it catching? bracket at the edge of the wing/bumper or just rubbing on the inner wheel arch in general?
Lol, i'll wont be swapping these arms with anyone Chip, i'll be selling them I think seeing as its highly likely that Renault arent making them anymore!
I bought brand new cup arms last week, so they are still available currently, but dont know if thats just from existing stock till its run out.
Rubbing on the inner wheel arch in general at the front (liner is already removed, I mean on the metal work)
You can hammer back a few of the bits it catches on, but ultimately the whole lot would need cutting out if you want lots of caster and to run very low.
Ah right, just thought given the previous conversations on here that there was only one part number for all the Mk2 RS Clio wishbones.
p@blo
ClioSport Club Member
Clio/A3
School you? Sorry, you've lost me there. I think you may have misinterpreted my post. :S
I was simply asking a question seeing as your post intimated you had a working understanding of the principle of why it would be of benefit.
Appreciate you clearing that up though
Ph1 172 & Clio DCi
Even a lot of Renault dealer think all the wishbones are the same.
I can clear it up now 100% They are all differnet!
They all have there own part number and they all are still avalible at present time
