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Got caster yo
- Thread starter Chip-mk1
- Start date
Chip did you switch to 172 cup track rods?
Reason I ask is I need new track rods but the cup ones are about 16mm longer and are Renault only.
But if you didn't switch track rods I guess you must be in the same situation as if I fitted non genuine non cup track rods.
The ones I looked at would still penetrate just over 20mm into the TRE just not sure if that is enough.
Thanks
Mark
Reason I ask is I need new track rods but the cup ones are about 16mm longer and are Renault only.
But if you didn't switch track rods I guess you must be in the same situation as if I fitted non genuine non cup track rods.
The ones I looked at would still penetrate just over 20mm into the TRE just not sure if that is enough.
Thanks
Mark
Im still on the standard track rods, the difference was only about 2 turns of thread mate, literally about 3-4mm, so not worth swapping to anything else.
No idea why the cup ones would be so much longer, purely to homologate for use with the cup racer bottom balljoint setup I would imagine.
No idea why the cup ones would be so much longer, purely to homologate for use with the cup racer bottom balljoint setup I would imagine.
182cup & 172 racecar
Just to bring this alive again.
What about re drilling the rear hole on the wishbone as well, surely this would add extra castor also.
What about re drilling the rear hole on the wishbone as well, surely this would add extra castor also.
The problem I have found with moving the ball joint too much is the clearance with the wheel arch 
! I can only move it a little bit with the 205's on and then it catches
The only option for me is adjust and the top and bottom to keep the wheel in the middle of the arch or cut out at the wheel arch
! I can only move it a little bit with the 205's on and then it catchesThe only option for me is adjust and the top and bottom to keep the wheel in the middle of the arch or cut out at the wheel arch
182cup & 172 racecar
I mean move the inside hole backwards and then the outer hole forwards, this should increase the castor more without moving it too far forward.
I think that's what I mean anyway.
I think that's what I mean anyway.
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
i wish pure would do topmounts with increased camber, less interference problems.
I know what you mean as I thought the same, but with the top of the strut staying in the same place then you have to move the wheel forwards to get more caster. By moving the inward hole further to the rear you are just increasing the angle of the ball joint but not moving the wheel forward so no increase in caster
It could give you more caster but will just keep causing even more clearance problems
182cup & 172 racecar
You understand what I mean then Chip.
I do understand what you mean too mate, but the angle of caster cannot be increased without the wheel moving forwards at the same ratio as increasing the angle (Unless you move the strut backwards at the top which then counteracts it)
(Unless you move the strut backwards at the top which then counteracts it)Agreed James one end the pivot point has to move, either strut top or ball joint pin has to move forward or back to get more but i think what tony is saying you could turn the ball joint to more of an angle getting some more caster without it being off the side of the arm. Space is obviously an issue but you can chop away most/all of the bumper bracket then I guess the next point is the front bib of the arch that Kenny has cut out??
182cup & 172 racecar
Yes I agree you could get plenty more caster by moving the rear bolt, I was just trying to clear up that when Tony was saying 'this should increase the castor more without moving it too far forward' it won't make any difference to how much the wheel moves forwards as that will be the same amount as you increase the caster.
My bumper bracket has been chopped right back and yes the main area where it catches is when you apply lock is where Kenny has open the arch out!
My bumper bracket has been chopped right back and yes the main area where it catches is when you apply lock is where Kenny has open the arch out!
Lol I will just give upYou got it.
I was only trying to help as I spent hours dicking around with my spare wishbones so didn't want you wasting a similar amount of time haha
182cup & 172 racecar
How much lock is that on James?
about 3/4 when the suspension is sat on the ground, when I then slackened off the springs (to get an idea for when the suspension is under load) it was catching at about half lock but this time in the middle section of the arch
182cup & 172 racecar
We don't often use that much lock on track though.
Risk it for biscuit
Risk it for biscuit
haha I can see myself getting choppy with the inner arches.
Im pretty sure my car runs lower than most. FML
Haha I have already marked mine up for trimming but i'm scared of grinders lol!
That is the thing, i am having the catching issues and my car is high compared to how most of you guys have them
Yes mate, moving the inner hole back moves the balljoint forward.
Also moves it inwards of course though if you get too carried away.
You would increase static positive camber slightly by doing this but nothing to worry about. Caster is free camber, as you increase caster it increases your dynamic camber during cornering which in reality is all camber is there for, to keep the contact patch as big as possible.
182cup & 172 racecar
Yes.
Its a couple of mm or so at most that it moves in, so maybe a fifth of a degree or something like that, I have camber bolts on my h&r coilovers so not an issue for mine but you are right its potentially something else to consider if you dont have any way of adjust the camber.
Fair enough.. I understand the way caster affects the handling and what it does. Also I can imagine its only miniscule that it moves and is easily overcome with camber bolts which cost peanuts now a days. Was just interested to see if anyone has checked how much difference it makes.
This was partly why I opted to make new engine mounts, as mad as it may seem.
There's nothing stopping you tweaking the nearside inner arch but when you look at getting some more clearance on the offside the engine mount is smack bang in the way. Granted you could still chop bits of the inner arch away but you would be cutting bits of the engine mount away too.
There's nothing stopping you tweaking the nearside inner arch but when you look at getting some more clearance on the offside the engine mount is smack bang in the way. Granted you could still chop bits of the inner arch away but you would be cutting bits of the engine mount away too.
sorry to reopen this old thread but was the general consensus that your best off going with the cup spec? Mine is a track only ph2 172 so not afraid of a little cutting. ive modified the wishbones like chip did at the beggining and the car does seem to just rub on the inside arches but i have nowhere to push the car and find out how bad it is before going out on track. do i need to drill a hole somewhere between standard and the extreme castor? (and obviously weld up the old hole) just dont want to turn up at a trackday and have to go home after 5 mins because i need to modify my wishbones because the tires are rubbing.
Anyone know how much caster AST top mount give and how much cup wishbones give?
Trying to work out if which is the cheaper option lol
Trying to work out if which is the cheaper option lol
I would say from looking at them both that the wishbones probably give marginally more.
Both is obviously the winning option though, although I prefer my pure design ones so I think I might got some made that are similar but have caster built into them at some point.
Both is obviously the winning option though, although I prefer my pure design ones so I think I might got some made that are similar but have caster built into them at some point.
How much are the cup wishbones chip?
I ran AST top mounts on my old clio and loved the way the car felt with them set to full caster
I ran AST top mounts on my old clio and loved the way the car felt with them set to full caster
Cheaper to go for AST's then over cup wishbones and pure top mounts.
Makes so much difference imo
Makes so much difference imo
Thats true! Probably wouldn't rub still either with both
No, adding it at the top instead is far better from a rubbing point of view.
Chip, cheeky I know. But if I was to send you a seof 182 wishbones, you dont fancy doing what you did to a set of yours? Pushing them right to the edge of the arm?
Nick
Nick
