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Graham's summer 172 cup track car



GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Mines no minter aesthetically either!

Do I drill the pop rivetts out on the filler neck, or can I leave those alone?
No need to drill those out. I could be remembering this totally wrong but I think when you take the cap off there’re two torx and that’s it.
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Nice videos Graham!
Cheers Arran, lots to improve but got to start somewhere. Trying to find a good recipe for interesting content at the moment.

The bump steer correction kit looks ace!
Awesome photos throughout the thread, and I've subscribed on youtube as well :up:
Can't wait to try it out :D Thanks for subscribing matey, part of a small club at the moment 😂
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Brands Hatch
What a brilliant day! Back in November after doing Bedford I was browsing the MSVT website to see when season opener was an up popped a full day at Brands for £100, a bargain not to be missed! A quick text to @Martin. saw him booked on too and so the prep began. Prep started a page or so back with the roll centre kit which I talk about a bit more later in the post. I changed the rear pads, swapped back to the ph2 fuel system (after fuel starvation issues with the ph1 set up), put a bit more oil in from the 20L drum I'm slowly working through and did a general spanner check over the car. A video was shot of the prep but the microphone was unplugged for half the footage so we'll do a re-shoot another time.

At the start of the day I had a little misfire where the injectors had been sat for a while on the ph2 rail. This seemed to get a bit better as the day went on but none the less I'll find the duff one and swap it out.

The day was more than I could have hoped for. I thrashed the car all day and it didn't miss a beat. The rotten wheel bearing held out and again a rod didn't come through the block! It's a born surviver and the engine is now over 160k!

Roll centre kit - I'll be totally honest, I found it strange at first as the car felt super twitchy and the back end felt mega light. After doing a few sessions though it was clear what was wrong...my driving. The kit really has transformed how the car handles and it's a case of point and go now instead of the previous point and hope it turns. I have had to change my driving technique to look further ahead, and now because I'm not fighting understeer the wheel movement is much less than before. At the start of the day I was throwing it into corners, oversteering and drifting! The harder turning had been absorbed by the springs and then turning the car before I fitted the kit. Now all the effort was going into steering the car so a more subtle and smooth style absolutely sees the best results. Druids at Brands was definitely the most noticeable difference, sooooo much easier to get a tight line now.

Brakes
Brakes do still feel a little bit soft. I can't tell whether that's just how they feel or whether it's an issue. I did briefly drive Marts car where the brakes are like throwing a parachute out the back. The difference with his car is ABS and RC6 pads so very difficult to tell if mine is right. The car locks up and the brakes are progressive so maybe it's just how they are. Something to look at for sure.

ASTs
Will be fitted before the next outing!

Youtube and Instagram
Instagram
Youtube

I've started an Instagram feed which is only about the kind of cars we all love and hopefully with some nice photos of them. I really enjoyed meeting people at Brands so am hoping to get a really good variety of track car photos every track day I go to. I try to post 1 a day.

The video of Brands Hatch comes out tomorrow at 8pm :) This is the first time I've tried to do more of a film at a track day instead of a go pro montage, although there is still some of that! I'd really appreciate any feedback on the video, what you like, what you didn't so I can make them better.

I'm doing the videos because it's something I really enjoy doing outside of work, it's helping me learn some new skills and I have so far met some brilliant people along the way. It's amazing how instantly you get on with people who have similar interests. That said it's a lot of work and I want to make it good for the people consuming it so please do provide me some feedback :)

In the mean time this is the video I put together when getting ready for the day. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for reading :D G

now for the pics
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GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Nice spin at 1:30 and a near one from the sliver Clio at 1:03 :grin: Oversteer or just a bit of slippy track? Just wondering if you could counter it by adjusting rear suspension or arb or similar?
It was very entertaining, felt like it came from no where! The other one is @Martin. drifting round clear ways we were both getting used to the vastly different handling characteristics of the cars after fitting the roll centre kit. Will probably play with the rear ARB after fitting the ASTs! Can’t wait.
 

gez 172

ClioSport Club Member
  R.S 200
Really loving these vids, I think you've got a good balance between in car and and other track cars/fly bys etc. Proper good.

I think you could get away with doing 2 vids per track day, the ones your currently doing, to entertain the masses, then I think you could add a link in for the purists - pure full in car vids.

Does your car have an LSD?
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Really loving these vids, I think you've got a good balance between in car and and other track cars/fly bys etc. Proper good.

I think you could get away with doing 2 vids per track day, the ones your currently doing, to entertain the masses, then I think you could add a link in for the purists - pure full in car vids.

Does your car have an LSD?
Cheers dude! I’m trying my best to work out what people enjoy watching and also what’s manageable to film on the day! Martin’s Dad got the fly bys and did a top job. Had thought of that and think they would have to go on a separate channel unless I can find a way of stopping notifications when they go up. The raw track videos would be super easy and no extra effort to put up because no editing would be required.

No LSD yet but certainly a big ticket item on the list. There is a very long term plan to get one but with good suspension I should be spinning up the inside wheel less...hopefully.
 

gez 172

ClioSport Club Member
  R.S 200
Cheers dude! I’m trying my best to work out what people enjoy watching and also what’s manageable to film on the day! Martin’s Dad got the fly bys and did a top job. Had thought of that and think they would have to go on a separate channel unless I can find a way of stopping notifications when they go up. The raw track videos would be super easy and no extra effort to put up because no editing would be required.

No LSD yet but certainly a big ticket item on the list. There is a very long term plan to get one but with good suspension I should be spinning up the inside wheel less...hopefully.

I thought you didn't have an LSD, but thought I'd ask, as I can see that inside wheel spinning when it's lifting.

An LSD would completely transform the car, especially on your over steer, you can just power out of it and not loose much momentum. An LSD would be my first 'go to' mod after having one fitted myself. Unreal difference. I had a Wavetrac - but as your more track oriented, a plated one you'd probably prefer for more aggression.
 

a17vts

ClioSport Club Member
  2005 RB 182 Cup
I've always like your track videos as they aren't just 15 minutes of continuous footage which I, personally, find boring.
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
I thought you didn't have an LSD, but thought I'd ask, as I can see that inside wheel spinning when it's lifting.

An LSD would completely transform the car, especially on your over steer, you can just power out of it and not loose much momentum. An LSD would be my first 'go to' mod after having one fitted myself. Unreal difference. I had a Wavetrac - but as your more track oriented, a plated one you'd probably prefer for more aggression.
Yeah it’s 100% needed but £2k that will definitely be going on the house for a while. I've been desperate for a gripper for some time but would definitely want to be trailering the car around if I got one making it an even more expensive mod! Suspension changes really are making a difference at the moment though and with the ASTs it should see me pretty happy for a few more years. The spin I had was the inner wheel locking up when the curb dipped away.

Great Video.
Cheers boi! Let me know what would make it better

I've always like your track videos as they aren't just 15 minutes of continuous footage which I, personally, find boring.
Thanks mate. I really want to make sure I do videos which are all about cheap fun track days that so many of us too. I find laps of footage boring too. I would happily put up "Hot laps" so to speak for people to watch but would like it to be separate from the more entertainment based videos! Lots of plans :D I'd like to do some interview videos talking to people about their track cars, how they got into etc.
 

a17vts

ClioSport Club Member
  2005 RB 182 Cup
TBH I copied your style when doing my Cadwell video, I basically did a couple of laps in one video but from made from different laps if thats makes sense! I also think incorporating the following in a video would be good:
  • Loading the car
  • Journey to the track
  • Drive home
  • Footage from different angels, forwards, backwards, facing you, etc, etc.
I also think getting footage from different cars would be good, especially if it shows your car.

The only thing I don't like about your vids is the font & colour but that is personal preference.

I also enjoyed your video fitting your roll centre correction, so more videos along these lines would be good even if its just servicing. Although I know these are easier said than done, I was out working on my car for a few hours yesterday and the last thing I would want to do would be to video it!

I do look forward future videos. :up:
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
TBH I copied your style when doing my Cadwell video, I basically did a couple of laps in one video but from made from different laps if thats makes sense! I also think incorporating the following in a video would be good:
  • Loading the car
  • Journey to the track
  • Drive home
  • Footage from different angels, forwards, backwards, facing you, etc, etc.
I also think getting footage from different cars would be good, especially if it shows your car.

The only thing I don't like about your vids is the font & colour but that is personal preference.

I also enjoyed your video fitting your roll centre correction, so more videos along these lines would be good even if its just servicing. Although I know these are easier said than done, I was out working on my car for a few hours yesterday and the last thing I would want to do would be to video it!

I do look forward future videos. :up:
That is extremely useful feedback and actually confirms a lot of the things I am already desperate to do. We did try to get a load of footage from Martins car but the spot meter being off on the gopro rendered a lot of the footage un-usable unfortunately. The biggest problem I have with making the videos is time to make good quality content on a day like Brands Hatch without compromising the period I get out on track. Every single moment of the day I had the camera in my hand taking photos and videos or was repairing something. Having the right equipment is definitely key though and without question a couple more gopros are in order to get multiple concurrent sequences. Bit of a shame my current go pro has just given up the ghost!

Brands is quite close to my house and the drive too and from was in the dark. I did try to include a bit of that but it looked poop. All the bits surrounding the day like loading car the car I want to include in the next video.

I'd change a few things about the roll centre video looking back on it but it's by far the video I spent most hours on before publishing. To create the animation alone took me well over a week of an hour or so a night! There are definitely some more videos in the pipe line like the roll centre video, watch this space.

Totally agree about the text. I do have an alternative which I might start using shortly but being a perfectionist I want it to be perfect but where possible. Even changing the text is something which takes blooming hours! At this stage of the channel unfortunately there are a lot of compromises which I hope to correct over the course of this year. I love making videos and just want to get better and better for me and anyone watching!

Send me your Cadwell one, I don't think I've seen it.
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member

Just a quick post. I had another car day on Sunday with @Martin. and Rich. Signed up for a power 2 weight day with track obsession. Not a lot to write about really but it was a really fun day and as on all dyno days I left with a pounding headache from the lack of brain oxygen.

Most interesting was to get the car on the scales. It's much lardier than I thought and it weighted in 996 without me in and about 3/8ths of a tank. I'm not too botherd though and would rather have the safety of a super extensive cage than a few less kgs. I was very very happy to see perfect 50% cross weights with the AP coilovers although they're coming off to be replaced this weekend by ASTs. I've booked Snetterton for the last weekend of this month, again with Mart and Rich. Having never done the circuit before I'm really excited to give it a go, especially with the ASTs.

I hugely appreciate everyone who's engaged with the channel and instagram so far. It makes all the hard work pay off. As always, comments whether good or bad are appreciated.

I've just realised too while posting this that all my photos are in RAW format which I can't upload so I only have this one photo to put up!
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GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
@GrahamS power/torque did it make?
There was an issue with the rollers so whilst the paper says 212bhp it’s of course not possible without throttle bodies or a little snail under the bonnet! I assume it’s the same as when I went to Surrey rolling road which was 196 bhp and 170 lbft.

Awesome thread mate, subscribed and now following on Instagram! (Y)
Thanks Eddy! It’s difficult to find the time to fit it all in but hope you enjoy what we post :)
 

eon172

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 (CUP)
Graham, been meaning to ask everytime I see yours and Martin's pics.... who takes your pics on track? They always look great.
Was just thinking the same having read the thread.

Also great read, and nice attitude towards cars, learning and evolving it, and of course tracking it.

Hoping to get my cup back up and running again and over to Brands soon - it's been sitting idle too long!
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
How do you find the AP coilovers bud?
I replied to you on your youtube comment buddy :) I've just taken them off today to replace them but they've served me very well for a couple of years and can't fault them that much. Perfect for driving to and from trackdays but a little too soft for my very enthusiastic driving! They're made by KW.

Graham, been meaning to ask everytime I see yours and Martin's pics.... who takes your pics on track? They always look great.
The ones of the car actually on track are usually the official trackday photography and hence they're taken on a beast of a camera with an incredible lens! The rest of the photos are ones we've taken.

Was just thinking the same having read the thread.

Also great read, and nice attitude towards cars, learning and evolving it, and of course tracking it.

Hoping to get my cup back up and running again and over to Brands soon - it's been sitting idle too long!
I wish I could claim them as mine! Zoom lens is a bit out of my budget at the moment but maybe I'll get one at some point in the future.
Cheers matey! I much prefer to give it ago myself than pay someone and have learnt a hell of a lot along the way :)
Can't beat Brands, so lucky to have it locally.
 

eon172

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 (CUP)
Cheers matey! I much prefer to give it ago myself than pay someone and have learnt a hell of a lot along the way :)
Can't beat Brands, so lucky to have it locally.
Good stuff, best way to learn. I enjoy the building as much as the driving tbh.

BH: same here, 30 mins or so, I think I'm in the same neck of the woods as Martin.
 

Raceface_13

Staffordshire
ClioSport Area Rep
I replied to you on your youtube comment buddy :smile: I've just taken them off today to replace them but they've served me very well for a couple of years and can't fault them that much. Perfect for driving to and from trackdays but a little too soft for my very enthusiastic driving! They're made by KW.

Ah sorry mate hasnt popped up in my notifications aha thanks bud. I ordered some BC dr’s but got royaly messed about so cancelled the order and looking for an alternative lol.
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
Seems as if I haven't updated this in an age but plenty has happened. After the power to weight day I put the blue shed in the garage while I got the hubs ready for fitting. As ASTs from @Martin.'s car were 60mm spacing and of the non-adjustable type I needed to swap to cup hubs. Luckily @TomSmith123 was breaking a 182 so I nabbed the hubs from that and set about stripping and cleaning them up ready for fitment. A bit of wire brushing and some hammerite made them turn up trumps.

Then I needed to finish off the ASTs. Mart had them from new and as expected had looked after them perfectly. Once I'd wiped off a few bits of grime I then set about re-coating them in Bilthammer Dynax UC to prevent any future corrosion. It says to apply in thin laters to prevent it going yellow but I wanted to make sure it was very well protected to slapped loads on. As a result the coilovers are sticky with wax but they're definitely very well protected and should stay looking new underneath. A whole day later we got the coilovers fitted. To try and maintain Marts corner weighting set up the heights were set the same as they had been on his car. Part of fitting the cup hubs meant the existing tie rods weren't long enough. some FTR5277s later and I was back in business. The change was also an opportune time to sort out the steering rack boots which had always been the wrong size as they were from a 1*2 instead of a DCI rack.

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Once the coilovers were fitted the car needed tracking up. We did a rough job at Marts and then to try and get rid of some weird torque steering I did it in the garage one evening with a micrometer to make it as precise as possible. I bought a set of turn plates, the concave type, which has totally transformed how accurate stringing the car is now. I still haven't fully resolved the steering issue but hopefully will when the new cup shafts are fitted.

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Then a rear wheel bearing went. Luckily I had an old disc laying around so chucked that on and cleaned it up before hand.

Then it all went down hill. I looked under the car for the first time in a while and found a shed load of leaks coming from almost everywhere. Now I knew it had leaks but they had clearly got a lot worse. The sump gasket, rear main seal and gearbox are all leaking and oil from the cam cover is coming down the back of the head. Worst of all the sump has a crack in. Fortunately I have a spare sump (of course I do!) but it's a right pain to do. Now I've been to Snett the car is off the road until all these leaks are sorts to the tune of about £500 :(

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Snetterton - Honestly it was the worst track day I've ever done. I went with Mart and Rich, it was soaking wet and all our cars were getting rings run round us by a standard 172. The car was really twitchy and difficult to drive and even though it looked fun, I was done with the day by about 10AM. The trackday was run by Javelin and has again cemented in my head to never use anyone apart from MSVT. The breifing you could barely hear and the photography was seriously amateur. Even though it's all waffle I've heard before I thought it was rather bad show. Usually I buy a photo or two to chuck on here or the instagram but it would have been worse than my own half rate photo taking.

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Essay complete! Engine leaks to be sorted next. I'll of course video it!
 

massivewangers

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I've done Javelin track days and always found them to be ok, no worse than MSVT ones in my experience. What was so bad about it? I'm sure if it was raining, the photographer deserves a bit of slack. Would you have stood out there in the rain taking pictures lol.

Shame it was skittish but that's what happens when you make the car more serious I suppose. A car set-up to be fast in the dry won't necessarily work in the wet unfortunately. Looks great though. Can't imagine changing the sump will be much fun!
 

GrahamS

ClioSport Club Member
I've done Javelin track days and always found them to be ok, no worse than MSVT ones in my experience. What was so bad about it? I'm sure if it was raining, the photographer deserves a bit of slack. Would you have stood out there in the rain taking pictures lol.

Shame it was skittish but that's what happens when you make the car more serious I suppose. A car set-up to be fast in the dry won't necessarily work in the wet unfortunately. Looks great though. Can't imagine changing the sump will be much fun!
@GrahamS give me a shout if you book another Snet day with MSVT as I need to book a couple more for June & July, can share a garage or something.
Sorry chaps I've only just seen these replies. Guess it's a bit late to reply now the summer's over!

Brands Hatch
Back in the spring, after that awful Snetterton day, I committed to doing some preventative maintenance work on the cup before using it again. To tell the truth I fell completely out of love with the car and had no motivation to get it back up and running. The turbos on the BMW financially ruined me and the cup got to a point where I felt it needed £1000 to get it back up and running, money which I just couldn't see me allocating any time soon with a house to renovate. It sat looking sad for itself in the garage for a long time! Fast forward months and months with the cup gathering a lot of cobwebs, I saw a track day pop up for £100 at Brands, our local track. Unfortunately the impulsive side of me couldn't say no to that and so we set getting the cup to a point which it was usable but without doing the engine refresh I had initially planned.

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If any of you follow my DCI project you will know that car has been a big focus for me this year and it was transformed in a relatively short space of time. Part of that speed was down to sourcing a Cup driveshaft from the Cup! When we fitted the ASTs earlier in the year some of you may have noticed I fitted 182 cup hubs. For me that meant I really needed to swap the driveshafts out for the real deal. As always when I need a bit for the Clio my first port of call is Alex who came up trumps and was breaking Paris's old 182 at the time. In summary, the cars's got a set of 182 cup driveshafts on it now.

I've also removed the roll centre kit, not through choice but to fund a bit of this work. A shame as it is, for me I couldn't have an asset sitting there when it could be funding me out on track.

The list to get the car sorted wasn't too bad so Mart and I set out sorting the car over the last few weekends. In short:
  • New tie rods - Delphi for only £10 a side now ECP don't seem to stock lemforder ones
  • Used ball joints
  • Tracking - 10 minutes toe out
  • Powerflex rear exhaust mount - The captive nuts on the mount are spinning so I burnt the old one our in situ with blowtorch
  • Removed the centre silencer
  • 182 manifold-2-172 rear section cat - Had Alex at AW Motorworks make this up for me. If anyone remembered I used to swap the 172 manifold over every year and it had become a total waste of a weekend. This cat takes 10 minutes to swap over now so works a charm.
  • Swap the tyres over to some legal ones
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On to the trackday then! The first thing to do is watch the video and then look at the photos! Mart and I shared the track day to keep costs down for the both of us.


The weather was cold, miserable and soaking wet. I've run R888 with success at Bedford in the past with no issues so Tuesday was a big learning curve for us. The set of r888 we had on were almost new on the front and about 50-60% worn on the back. I went out for couple of laps and the car was so snappy at the back we immediately removed the rear ARB to soften it up and re-checked the tyre pressures. Next was Mart's session. He's driven my car before but the snappy nature of it wasn't something you could really prepare for. As I'm sure you've seen, after only 1 lap we did a quick swizzle left, a whoosh right and all the way back into the gravel on Paddock Hill. Both of us have done a fair few track days now but have never been in a situation like that with the car stopping so fast. We hit it sideways with the n/s digging into the gravel so hard it felt like it was going to roll. For sure, had it been summer and we'd taken the corner faster it would have been a flipper. Many additional skiddies occured. I should add that I'm pretty chilled so found it all rather funny. There's a reason I have a Clio and it's because they're almost disposable!

A red flag, quick tow and a short drive later we were able to assess the damage. Mud and stones absolutely everywhere but no real injuries to speak of. The subframe took a small knock but the tracking was OK so who cares! The local hand car wash were very accommodating as it was raining and let us use their beastly pressure washer for a fiver. The local tyre shop equally helped us out a lot and downed tools to clear the stones out of the N/S wheel beads. After an hour we were back sorted and on track.
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Look how happy he was with the stones in the brakes ?
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Throughout the afternoon we tried a load of different tyre combintions and settled on using some fresher R888.

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We're at Bedford on the 1st December with @Mazz, Rich, Fraz and Danny so will be prepared with proper tyres (that were at Mart's all along)

Thanks for reading :) I really do hugely appreciate everyone who comments, likes and subscribes to the channel. I really enjoy doing it and any show of a like back really helps keep the motivation up. Seeing The Brands video get over 700 views in it's first day was really amazing.

oh and here's a video of my BM if you missed it.
 
Last edited:

20vKarlos

ClioSport Club Member
The BMW video is a lot better than the last lot! You’re certainly picking up that editing lark!

YouTube is something I’ve always wanted to give a go, but I’m rubbish with the editing side of it.
The vid has a very LLF feel to it and we all know how good those videos are, however, I found the music to be very depressing.

Love the new font too, looks good mate
 


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