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group N cam timing

NorthloopCup said:
I think everyone thought I was a liar when I said just how much of an improvement it makes tbh mate. Who's got egg on their fuckin face now then eh?
Idle speed is easy to fix!!
Click to expand...

You might get more interest in the group buy for the timing tool now!!
 
This is awesome, thanks for sharing. I've always thought the group N timing sounds like a good idea, so good to see the curve. After the "added air leak" and calibration tweaks how is the idle? Is it still noticeably worse than standard?
 
simon_b said:
This is awesome, thanks for sharing. I've always thought the group N timing sounds like a good idea, so good to see the curve. After the "added air leak" and calibration tweaks how is the idle? Is it still noticeably worse than standard?
Click to expand...


Nah, sounds a bit lumpy but have heard worse on standard cars when they've got an issue.
 
Would mapping costs be the higher rate that EFI charge for cams?


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OssPoop said:
So timing can be adjusted without requiring a new belt? So for those within range of @bloke it's re-time and then map to maximise? That torque curve looks sweet:up:
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It's a bit moody re-timing it and not replacing the belt mate tbf. If anything fails after the timings been adjusted, the person who did it will be held responsible. Even if it's f**k all to do with them!
 
OssPoop said:
My belts only 2 years old. I'm out:cry:
Click to expand...
The grp n timing alters the dynamic compression ratio, so technically an old belt will be working a bit harder too.

With the basic induction and exhaust mods though, it's the best bang per £ you'll ever get from an f4r. I loved my old cup on grp n and they do/did a tool for the mk3 too. That requires a cam swap on the mk3 though to get the full effect. I have it all sat in my garage.....😂
 
NorthloopCup said:
The grp n timing alters the dynamic compression ratio, so technically an old belt will be working a bit harder too.

With the basic induction and exhaust mods though, it's the best bang per £ you'll ever get from an f4r. I loved my old cup on grp n and they do/did a tool for the mk3 too. That requires a cam swap on the mk3 though to get the full effect. I have it all sat in my garage.....😂
Click to expand...
The low down torque is so much better isn’t it mark
 
Very interesting indeed. It would have been nice to have seen the bhp figures too - give a % gain if nothing else.
 
497adam said:
Would mapping costs be the higher rate that EFI charge for cams?


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Click to expand...

yup as it's a full map.


OssPoop said:
So timing can be adjusted without requiring a new belt? So for those within range of @bloke it's re-time and then map to maximise? That torque curve looks sweet:up:
Click to expand...

in theory yes as you're not retensioning the belt.



Kosy said:
Very interesting indeed. It would have been nice to have seen the bhp figures too - give a % gain if nothing else.
Click to expand...

figures are irrelevant. the graph is what counts.
 
bloke said:
yup as it's a full map.




in theory yes as you're not retensioning the belt.





figures are irrelevant. the graph is what counts.
Click to expand...

Cheers, just adding up costs will drop you a pm.


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Looking forward to getting my car out on track now , as the engine I just fitted (Frasers old one ) has group N timing and efi map.
Im just hoping there was enough fuel in the map to compensate for any changes caused by my different exhaust.
 
My belts are due so I've been looking at 438/421 catcams (track car) with the view longer term to go throttle bodies as well once funds allow.

Would these be a good alternative or better off going with the Catcams. Money isn't the issue, I just want the best I can get rather than just making do for the sake of a few hundred quid.

Cheers
 
steviekyle13793 said:
My belts are due so I've been looking at 438/421 catcams (track car) with the view longer term to go throttle bodies as well once funds allow.

Would these be a good alternative or better off going with the Catcams. Money isn't the issue, I just want the best I can get rather than just making do for the sake of a few hundred quid.

Cheers
Click to expand...

get 438 in and then when you get bodies get them re timed to 421 set up.
 
steviekyle13793 said:
438 better without bodies though? Then change timing to 421? Would I need to factor in a full belt change and map again? @bloke
Click to expand...

will need mapping anyway as you'd be going to bodies and no real need for a belt change as you're only moving exhaust cam timing, you don't let the tension off the belt for that.
 
Ah yeah fair one haha, I'm in nightshift mood so don't judge 😂

Sweet. Looks like that's going to be my plan of attack then lol

Looked on PMS website and I think there was a few different types of 438s ... I may be wrong ... ?
 
So is anyone offering the Grp N setup with belts and dephaser, etc?

I'm potentially buying a 182 cup tomorrow, and it needs belts changing at the end of the month, so if this is available i'd definitely be interested
 
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