group N cam timing

[imprezaworks]

Forward thinking

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

Soooo... can you group N time a set of 197 cams?

 

[bloke]

Soooo... can you group N time a set of 197 cams?

Nope but sort of:wink:

 

[1985michael182]

This is great to hear! I've booked in with Chris for the 23rd of june and northloop is doing me a group n tool, I'm running jenvey 48mm bodies and gen90 so will be good to see what you guys can get out of it. Northloop isn't to sure what if any gains will be made as it's supposed to work with standard inlets and what not but it must surely still work.

 

[1985michael182]

Also are there any guides for actually setting the timing up for group n? What do I actually do? I've got the standard timing kit????

 

[neil a]

Did my first trackday last week since fitting the engine with group N timing and efi map . I was impressed with the power delivery , and low down torque out of tight corners.

Has anyone ran group N timing with a turbo ?? As im planning on going turbo later in the year , would I be better to go back to standard timing for that ?

 

[bloke]

Needs to be on stock timing for boost.

Could sound nice with bodies but not sure about gains though? From what we've seen though shouldn't drop any at least!!

Had another one done, not massive gains but almost hits peak torque at about 2,500rpm. Drops a bit after but then picks back up.

 

[1985michael182]

Yes will sound nice if it's lumpy on bodies!

So what do I need to adjust regarding timing. Belts been done so I'm not doing full job again.

 

[bloke]

Just retime it but use the new tool to lock the cams with.

 

[1985michael182]

Ah oh, now I understand. So still have to Jack up the off side ofd the engine up. Put all the tools in retime it and then lift idle up to 1100rpm on the bodies so it will idle

 

[bloke]

Yup, not sure how your idle will be anyway, what ecu you running?

 

[1985michael182]

Gen 90

 

[1985michael182]

But idle is controlled by the bodies on the centre screw

 

[bloke]

Might have to mess with your tps possibly but just depends on how it idles.

You've got to pretty much do belts as a full job if you crack the inlet cam off don't forget as you have to clean the oil away before you set it up.

 

[1985michael182]

I've set my TPS to 10 as that's what Ktec say in their video and idle is at 1000rpm all balanced at 4.5kg.

I'll PM you regarding the timing

 

[bloke]

No worries.

 

[Mertin]

Some good reading here, who is all offering group n timing then? From what Iv gathered in this thread its bloke and EFi? Is it just the labour involved for the belt change / timing setup and then mapping on top? Would be good to know a rough cost.

 

[Vaughan]

Is mapping necessary top take advantage of the Group N timing?

 

[bloke]

Some good reading here, who is all offering group n timing then? From what Iv gathered in this thread its bloke and EFi? Is it just the labour involved for the belt change / timing setup and then mapping on top? Would be good to know a rough cost.

will pm you later but the price varies, phase 1 is cheaper though.

Is mapping necessary top take advantage of the Group N timing?

100% has to be mapped

 

[JamesBryan]

Is mapping necessary top take advantage of the Group N timing?

It's essential to even get the thing idling without the workaround.

 

[bozothenutter]

will pm you later but the price varies, phase 1 is cheaper though.





100% has to be mapped

after the idle tweak, can it be driven to and from a mapping session?
say about 150Km?

 

[bloke]

after the idle tweak, can it be driven to and from a mapping session?
say about 150Km?

Yeah, as long as you don't hammer it. If you've got much stop starting or at in traffic a lot be prepared for the fuel to be all over the place and slow to drop as well.

 

[Vaughan]

ok thanks

 

[RS172Steve]

May I have a quote aswel please

 

[RS172Steve]

Yeah, as long as you don't hammer it. If you've got much stop starting or at in traffic a lot be prepared for the fuel to be all over the place and slow to drop as well.

Can I have a quote please

 

[New2RS]

Plus 1 on the quote please. Phase 2.
Cheers.

 

[bloke]

drop me message, up the wall at the mo sorry.

 

[Chambers_RS]

I loved the lumpy idle groupN timing gave my engine ?

 

[bloke]

just had this car back in for a 182 exhaust manifold to see what if any difference it makes. hopefully get it up for a run this week.

 

[gambit]

If one had Cat Cam 428s already installed and were doing belts, could you:
a) Use Oe renault timing gear
b) Only use Cat Cam timing gear
c) Use Group N timing gear or
d) none of the above ?

 

[bloke]

If one had Cat Cam 428s already installed and were doing belts, could you:
a) Use Oe renault timing gear
b) Only use Cat Cam timing gear
c) Use Group N timing gear or
d) none of the above ?

Would have to look at specs but fwir the 428 is sold as a fast road cam? They do a 420 (?) That I think they list as a group n cam?

All depends what the spec of the car, what you want from it and how much money you want to throw at it.

Messing with cam timing will generally produce some form of gain/benefit BUT you can either do it by working out that to set to and setting it once or doing it on the rollers and tweaking the timing to find the best setting, this was is the one that will cost silly money and is only really for when you are trying to squeeze every single bit of power out of an engine.

 

[1985michael182]

What number do standard cams come under if group n is 420?

 

[bloke]

i'd guess the 428 and 420 are about the closest to standard they do?

 

[1985michael182]

So the 420 and 428 aren't really worth bothering with? As they aren't much higher lift?

 

[bloke]

don't think there are big gains from them but will have to have a quick look at the specs on them, not looked at them for ages.

 

[JamesBryan]

420 are the group n

duration @ 0.1mm
269°/256°
duration @ 1.0mm
231°/219°
valve lift
11.25mm/10.25mm
valve lift @ TDC
0.40mm/1.55mm

428

duration @ 0.1mm
272°/256°
duration @ 1.0mm
236°/219°
valve lift
11.30mm/10.25mm
valve lift @ TDC
0.55mm/1.55mm

 

[bozothenutter]

can the tool be used on197 / 200 's?

 

[NorthloopCup]

can the tool be used on197 / 200 's?

At your own risk, but I’d say no tbh mate. I know what RenaultSport did on the R3 access cars, and if it worked well, they would’ve used it. But they didn’t.

 

[bozothenutter]

At your own risk, but I’d say no tbh mate. I know what RenaultSport did on the R3 access cars, and if it worked well, they would’ve used it. But they didn’t.

Tnx mate, I have some interested 197 owners on this end Had to make sure.

 

[bloke]

can the tool be used on197 / 200 's?

Would need to address the cam sensor, not sure if the ecu can be mapped to see it at a different position to the crank?