group N cam timing

[bloke]

Forgot to update this the other week, car now got a 182 exhaust manifold on it and at the mo sat freezing my toes off in efi while Chris sorts it out, will post graph later on but surprising difference from the manifold and bit of mapping.

Had a feeling the manifold would work well with the timing.

 

[bloke]

the red is with group n and 172 exhaust manifold, the black is 182 manifold and mapped again.

 

[imprezaworks]

Great result

 

[Sj1782]

I think I need to pay you a visit Carl and let you have a play with the timing on mine [emoji106]


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[1985michael182]

the red is with group n and 172 exhaust manifold, the black is 182 manifold and mapped again.


View attachment 1395912

So this is a 172 running group n and a 182 mani nothing else?

Why are the figures a secret lol

 

[bloke]

So this is a 172 running group n and a 182 mani nothing else?

Why are the figures a secret lol

decat and cone filter as well.

figures aren't a secret as it's not about figures it's how it changes power/delivery etc.

 

[Nathan Evans]

Because the figures are that good people won’t believe them ?

 

[scotiamr2t]

The torque spread is great. above 150 from 2600rpm to 6700rpm

 

[bloke]

Because the figures are that good people won’t believe them ?

SHHHHHHH...

 

[bloke]

didn't have a before graph for this one so left the figure on it but bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RSPez]

So much want

 

[hipwell]

didn't have a before graph for this one so left the figure on it but bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!

View attachment 1398217

Wow, what other mods other than the group N timing?

 

[bloke]

Wow, what other mods other than the group N timing?

matched inlets, cone filter and pms exhaust. although the guys who did the inlets seem to have the impression it's down to them by the way they've posted it on facebook, that could disappoint a lot of people who buy them!!!!!!!

was getting a bit of det top end so chris had to pull timing on it, guessing it's standard pistons but didn't check down the plug hole when i was doing it.

 

[hipwell]

matched inlets, cone filter and pms exhaust. although the guys who did the inlets seem to have the impression it's down to them by the way they've posted it on facebook, that could disappoint a lot of people who buy them!!!!!!!

was getting a bit of det top end so chris had to pull timing on it, guessing it's standard pistons but didn't check down the plug hole when i was doing it.

Lol, how much they charging for inlet matching?

Did you ever stick a group N timed clio on an mot emmissions test?

 

[bloke]

Lol, how much they charging for inlet matching?

Did you ever stick a group N timed clio on an mot emmissions test?

Not cheap that's for sure. The way they say about gains and big it up you'd th9nk the matched inlets were the biggest part of it!!

Not actually had one on a sniffer yet but will do at some point even if it's just out of curiosity.

 

[Greeny.]

Anything special about the inlet matching or the same thing people have been doing for years?!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Anything special about the inlet matching or the same thing people have been doing for years?!

Same thing cavemen were doing mate just before they started working at cape canaveral mate.

 

[bloke]

Anything special about the inlet matching or the same thing people have been doing for years?!

not really, makes a little bit of a difference but the way they posted about it the timing and mapping have got little to do with the results ??????

 

[bloke]

also about to start playing with exhaust cam timing on 197 cams as well to see what difference that makes. got two cars i've already done that i'll be using so we've got a direct comparison for any gains/changes.

 

[Greeny.]

Same thing cavemen were doing mate just before they started working at cape canaveral mate.

Not sure if you’re taking the piss out of me or them mate, mate

 

[Sj1782]

also about to start playing with exhaust cam timing on 197 cams as well to see what difference that makes. got two cars i've already done that i'll be using so we've got a direct comparison for any gains/changes.

Keep us posted! Hopefully there’s some improvement! I wouldn’t mind having a few more ponies


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[NorthloopCup]

Not sure if you’re taking the piss out of me or them mate, mate

100% out of them mate! Lol! They all think they’re reinventing the wheel! ?

 

[1985michael182]

Was it the full PMS exhaust with fancy manifold?

 

[bloke]

Was it the full PMS exhaust with fancy manifold?

stock manifold. going to look at 197 exhaust manifolds next, got to get hold of one to measure runners etc and see how it fits.

 

[1985michael182]

Man that's a mega result. You got more power than mine with 48mm jenvey bodies

 

[1985michael182]

With group N

 

[bloke]

compression was high on it, was starting to det top end so chris had to pull timing on it. speaking to him this morning saying possibly head skimmed on it? either way still a stonking car, just a shame we didn't have a before graph for it. that's the downside to having to turn it round in a day when someone is coming from 3 hours away as well.

 

[plees]

Some cracking results. Was speaking to @Niall about it the other week. Good that people are still keen to get more out of them and share it all!

 

[NorthloopCup]

stock manifold. going to look at 197 exhaust manifolds next, got to get hold of one to measure runners etc and see how it fits.

All I’m going to say is, if you think toyosport manifolds are s**t, wait until you see a 197 manifold!! Trust me, the 182 manifold is far superior.

 

[1985michael182]

Where does the 197 get the extra power from then over the 182? Just from compression ?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Where does the 197 get the extra power from then over the 182? Just from compression ?

Better cylinder head, higher comp, different cams and constantly variable inlet timing. Possibly a few other things, but they’re the main contender.

 

[bloke]

All I’m going to say is, if you think toyosport manifolds are s**t, wait until you see a 197 manifold!! Trust me, the 182 manifold is far superior.

Only want to chop them to try few ideas with them. Think the primaries are longer aren't they? Not actually measured them yet though.

Where does the 197 get the extra power from then over the 182? Just from compression ?

Runner sizing helps top end power as well but sacrifices torque on them.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Only want to chop them to try few ideas with them. Think the primaries are longer aren't they? Not actually measured them yet though.

No mate. They just look like a mass produced item, so there’s no quality there in comparison to the 182 item.

 

[1985michael182]

So the 182 had alot more thought and quality put into it's power gains and the 197 was mass produced and cheap

 

[NorthloopCup]

So the 182 had alot more thought and quality put into it's power gains and the 197 was mass produced and cheap

No mate. The 197 has a much better thought out cylinder head in comparison to the mk2. Substantially better in fact. The fact that mine made 230/181 whilst retaining the stock inlet shows how well it works with the right combination of parts. There’s no was a 1*2 would ever make these numbers on a stock inlet.

 

[1985michael182]

Ah I see, so if mine goes pop could I put the mk3 head on?

 

[Nathan Evans]

Clio r3 maxi is 250bhp plus on standard 197 inlet.

I’d like to see a pms 240 engine with a standard inlet. Just to see what power it would produce

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ah I see, so if mine goes pop could I put the mk3 head on?

Yes you could mate, but it’s not quite as simple as that. You’d need other supporting items too. Your itb’s won’t fit on a mk3 head either.

Clio r3 maxi is 250bhp plus on standard 197 inlet.

I’d like to see a pms 240 engine with a standard inlet. Just to see what power it would produce

Nowhere near that much power is what it would make! Lol! Mine did 230 on maxi parts with not a lot of effort put into porting and polishing

 

[1985michael182]

You see, the cost/power ratio of getting these engines to 230/240bhp really isn't worth it went you can drop a turbo in for alot cheaper and probably have more power straight away. Plus maintenance of such a highly strung engine.
Down side is you lose the clios character, driveability and engine sound which is what we all love about them

 

[neil a]

Has anyone altered the dephaser set points when having the car mapped after going to GPN settings ?
On my old engine dynamics cams we gained power by leaving it energized until the redline .