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Heel Toeing in a 182?



B

bradharding24

  A car
drhowser said:
have you ever used a dog box? rally drivers are not heel and toeing for the sake of the engagement, you can use a dog box without the clutch once it has warmed up.

they are doing it for the reasons that mark cup explained, which apply to any car, be it front, rear or four wheel drive. namely balance and stability.

the smoother your gear changes the less weight transfer will take place, which in turn means less energy is dissipated, meaning you preserve your forward momentum.

obviously you will have some other "reason" which will make you right, so i'll leave you to it now ;)
Click to expand...

It doesnt look like Jean is too worried about smoothness to me. Maybe you should write to him and let him know he is too agressive. Notice that the rear wheels are locking on the corners. Is is trying to destabilise the car with the handbrake. I suggest you go through youtube and watch some rally vids and see how they abuse the steering wheel just before a corner. Why would they heel toe to mantain 'smoothness' then yank up the handbrake to get the back out? Come on dont be so stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCIOGlllGDw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5v-OhjiBDg
 
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B

bradharding24

  A car
Fred said:
go from 110mph in 4th, hit the brakes and drop to 2nd at say 60mph and lift the clutch as per "joe blogs" drivers and what happens?
Click to expand...

If you try it in a powerful rwd car you might end up in a hedge. If you did it in a clio, not much would happen.

Lets face it we all know that pissing about with heel toeing in a clio is a waste of time. Some people will always claim it to be beneficial, but deep down we all know its as much use as the passenger side wing mirror on a clio 16v.
 
B

bradharding24

  A car
Fred said:
Jean doesn't heal and toe? oh really?

blink and you'll miss it
[youtube]1ZyUImGiaow[/youtube]
Click to expand...

No you have misunderstood, maybe because you cant read? I said rally drivers DO heel and toe, but not because they want to maintain smoothness or any rubbish like that. They heel toe because they HAVE TO because they use dog gears.
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
bradharding24 said:
If you try it in a powerful rwd car you might end up in a hedge. If you did it in a clio, not much would happen.

Lets face it we all know that pissing about with heel toeing in a clio is a waste of time. Some people will always claim it to be beneficial, but deep down we all know its as much use as the passenger side wing mirror on a clio 16v.
Click to expand...

i'm one of those people then!
 
ForceIndia

ForceIndia

ClioSport Club Member
  Gentlemans spec 200
I was under the impression that heel and toe was used to maintain drivetrain smoothness (to stop any unpredictable reaction from the car), and to allow you to brake/change gear as late as possible on corner entry.
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
bradharding24 said:
No you have misunderstood, maybe because you cant read? I said rally drivers DO heel and toe, but not because they want to maintain smoothness or any rubbish like that. They heel toe because they HAVE TO because they use dog gears.
Click to expand...

gearbox type has very little to do with it, 100% of race drivers i know (bar 2 who are s**t) heal and toe, why? because it IS beneficial, its physics!
 
B

bradharding24

  A car
Fred said:
gearbox type has very little to do with it, 100% of race drivers i know (bar 2 who are s**t) heal and toe, why? because it IS beneficial, its physics!
Click to expand...

I think i clearly said rally drivers. You would make a good pair with Gordon. Cant spell, cant read.

And a bonus point if you tell me what make of gearbox that maxi car has in it.
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
its beneficial in all forms of motorsport, hell they even do it on bikes

you'd get on well with Maureen, won't listen, can't drive ;)
 
ChrisPearson

ChrisPearson

  fiesta 1.25
m3stig said:
if your in the right gear you wont need to clutch!!!
Click to expand...

but thats the whole point of heel and toe,you will be changing down gear and need to apply the throttle.

I dont understand why anyone would do this on the road?i just dont change down gear untill i come to a stop.I do left foot brake everywhere though.
 
P

Peperami

  M2 Competition
Wow, have just read the comments from bradharding. What a lot of crap to come from one person! You're seriously lacking interpersonal skills fella.

Nothing i need to add that others havnt already said, but you're talking to people that know a lot about driving...
 
Poopensharten

Poopensharten

ClioSport Club Member
  Golf R
LOL @ giving Fred driving advice.

Im pretty sure hes involved in some sort of driving or another :D

I love this forum.
 
B

bradharding24

  A car
benmore said:
you sir, are a tool.

has preventing gearbox wear been mentioned too?

bearing in mind our boxes come straight from cadburys factory. :)
Click to expand...

Did i not say it was used to prevent wear? But of dog rings, not a syncromesh. Changing gear at too low a revs or too slowly will damage dog rings. Changing too quickly will damage a synchromesh. I think you are a little confused.

Your boxes are not made of chocolate, they are adequate for the job of driving your car on the road as it was intended. They will last for hundreds of thousands of miles of spirited, but legal and safe driving. However, people abuse their car and drive them like they are on track and wonder why the things break. The things that will damage a synchromesh gearbox is attempting to change gear faster then the box will allow. That is why race cars usedog rings as they increase the speed of changes. As such you have to drive them differently. Copying what you see a pro driver do with a dog ring box in your synchromesh box is probably not the wisest use of logic ever is it?
 
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F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
can you list the events Don Palmer, Henry Stanton, Darren Edmonds, Wayne Bailey, Ian Ashley....... do i need to go on?
 
B

bradharding24

  A car
Fred said:
can you list the events Don Palmer, Henry Stanton, Darren Edmonds, Wayne Bailey, Ian Ashley....... do i need to go on?
Click to expand...

If you mention you are an instructor i think it is acceptable to question your qualifications and experience. So go ahead. Please inform me of your greatness.

What cars do you teach in?
 
ForceIndia

ForceIndia

ClioSport Club Member
  Gentlemans spec 200
Seeing as it's being discussed, what are your qualifications Brad? Genuinely interested:)
 
F

Flaydog

  a black one
warren4 said:
Seeing as it's being discussed, what are your qualifications Brad? Genuinely interested:)
Click to expand...

It seems Brads qualifications are causing arguments in empty rooms. He did the same with me just recently on thread about oil filter removal tools...there was only one real tool in that thread!
 
Gally

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
I aren't sure this brad fella knows what he's talking about.
 
drhowser

drhowser

  lift number 1 @ btm
bradharding24 said:
It doesnt look like Jean is too worried about smoothness to me. Maybe you should write to him and let him know he is too agressive. Notice that the rear wheels are locking on the corners. Is is trying to destabilise the car with the handbrake. I suggest you go through youtube and watch some rally vids and see how they abuse the steering wheel just before a corner. Why would they heel toe to mantain 'smoothness' then yank up the handbrake to get the back out? Come on dont be so stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCIOGlllGDw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5v-OhjiBDg
Click to expand...

ah, afternoon dude.

sorry to leave you hanging last night, but i had to be up early for work....

it's interesting that you choose rally driving as an example. I won't insult your intelect by pointing out that, despite it's dramatic apperance, rally driving is actually very controlled and precise. obviously you know this.


the advantage of heel and toeing on the way into a corner is that the car is much flatter and stable, as already said i think?
this means that it will be much more balanced and will be easier to control in the event of a slide, pretty usefull when you are sideways through most corners.....

what would be the advantage of having an unbalanced car through a corner?


http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

:lolup:
 
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