HELP: Williams Track Conv. Problem!

[u33db]

As you know, im getting the williams front track fitted to my 16v at the moment but the garage has phoned me with a problem;

Basically on the drivers side when they tighten everything up, the lower balljoint cannot be moved out far enough (by about half an inch) to allow it to fit to the hub. The only way they can seem to get round this is to elongate the holes (presumably on the wishbone) to get it to fit.

The question i have is why? I appear to have assembled all the correct parts dont i?

 

[u33db]

Just been on dialogies to see if theres anything looking dodgy - stub axels match up fine between 16v/willy/r19, wishbones are fine but the only difference i can see is the balljoints; the r19 oneshave a different part number from the clio ones (and their possible replacements). Wouldnt think so but could this cause the above??

Then again, the mechanic said its out by half an inch which seems very suspicious. The willy gains about an inch in track over a 16v so maybe renault have given me a wrong wishbone! The sticker on it had the correct part number but maybe that was wrong.....

*feels a big labour bill heading my way*

 

[william]

Im sorry to hear you are having problems...

So basically the right side is causing problems but left side is done now?

 

[u33db]

Yeah i think so. There was no mention of problems with the shorter shaft anyway so can only hope itll be fine. Almost convinced renault has mailto:f@#ked">f@#ked this one up for me as everyone on here said it should fit and going by part numbers it certainly should.

10 years after the car was built and they still cant get it right......

 

[william]

Yea, cannot understand. If you have r19 wshbone and r19 driveshaft, it just should bolt on and thats about it. I thought original Renault wishbones come with balljoints? Anyway, the balljoint is not causing the problem here. There must be some wrong part theyve provided. As far as i know the hubs are the same too...

 

[u33db]

Yup hubs are the same.

Away to phone the garage in a few minute to see how they got on enlarging the holes (been an almost 2 hours since i gave them the go-ahead). They didnt sound too pleased on the phone but what can you do? Just want it back now.....

 

[u33db]

^Well apparently theyve got everything things sorted and it all bolted together now (phew!). Unfortunately theyve run out of time to set the tracking etc so going to be tomorrow now before i get it now.

Going to be a laugh to get the bill for this one i think...

 

[FATBOY]

why dont ya just get a williams instead?????

 

[Martin]

Quote: Originally posted by u33db on 09 April 2004


^Well apparently theyve got everything things sorted and it all bolted together now (phew!). Unfortunately theyve run out of time to set the tracking etc so going to be tomorrow now before i get it now.

Going to be a laugh to get the bill for this one i think...

Itll worth it though, your car will be almost as good as a real williams now.

 

[FATBOY]

whos mine????

 

[u33db]

Quote: Originally posted by MartinS on 09 April 2004

Itll worth it though, your car will be almost as good as a real williams now.

Will be better than a williams surely?! Cheaper insurance, nearly as fast and all the tasteful rust gives it a more classy look....

 

[u33db]

Just got a phone call from the garage after theyve set up the tracking - its a no-go!

Basically on a road test, they get severe vibrations through the car as the shafts have no lateral movement. Now, i spoke to Paul Mitchell at infinicar a while back (as he had fitted R19 shafts to a clio) and he said he got a similar problem and assumed it was down to the tripod joints or something (dunno if this is the same issue) - despite this i thought i might get away with as the price difference is about 150quid. Now, it appears the for some reason the willy shafts must be different in someway to the R19 ones as the wishbones, shocks, arb are all genuine willy bits......

Ive now got two choices - either put things back the way they were or fit the genuine components and hope it all works this time. Obviously ive invested in all the new bits (which renault aint gonna refund me on) so am going to try the proper williams shafts. Anyone got thoughts on whether it will actually work this time??

 

[FATBOY]

Quote: Originally posted by FATBOY on 09 April 2004

why dont ya just get a williams instead?????

i think i was right then???^^^^^^

 

[BenR]

The DS should have no lateral movement?

They are bolted tight and splines lockited.

Maybe you have having a problem with the sunwheel (since its drivers side only), dont know if they are the same......

 

[william]

Sounds very strange mate. When speaking from left side, as i said, there wasnt any difference between r19 and willy, or if there was, its something that eyes cant see (and something you cannot measure). And im quite sure the right one is also from R19 in my W cos looking at the bill when it was done several years ago there is a line "driveshaft R19 16v" and the price is much much lower than genuine willy one. And my car is genuine willy and never experienced that kind of problems as u have now...

Oh, and it cant be tripod joints, they even share the same part number in Renault database (theyve been available separately in some point)

Truly hope you can get it sorted...

 

[u33db]

Sunwheel? Whats that and is there a part number so i can have a look at it in dialogys?

*edited - i think this is a gearbox part but i got a new box a few months ago?

 

[BenR]

The sunwheel is the part between box dif OS output and the OS driveshaft. Its a basic housing that allows you to continue using the tripod claw bearings on the end of the DS.

I dont have dialogys as im on holiday in HK sorry.

Been thinking about it though.

The JC5 (willy) and JB3 (valver) box castinds are different, but simlar. Same bot patterns, but the only read diff apart from casting appearance is in the startermoter clearance, bellhousing tha diff housing. THe willy box uses larger dia but thinner diff bearings, a retaining nut instead of circlips i think, and a few other bits that add up to the diff OS output having less space for the sunwheel to slide onto, effectively poking the DS out further by a tiny bit.

Possibly the reason they made specific shafts, sorry never thought about it before.

 

[BenR]

Not sure, you cant adj the sunwheel as its located with a rollpin.

You could try a willy shaft........sorry i cant be more help, im not in a position to measure at the moment.

 

[u33db]

Thanks ben,

willy shafts on order now. Also been speaking to Paul at Infinicar and he reckons the drivers side willy shaft is shorter than the R19 ones which would sort my problem.

Guess ill know in the next few days but i reckon this one should go as a guide on cliosports if it all works out - got a bad feeling the amount of labour this is gonna cause a bad bill for me!

Fingers xd!

 

[u33db]

Update - my garage is having to get the willy shafts from renault ( ) which means delivery is looking like the end of this week now. Hopefully get the car back this coming saturday!

....situation has been made worse by my mum giving me her 1.1 metro to "get me by"! LMFAO!

 

[rockport]

U33db - looking forward to the full report once the convertion has been completed, can i ask what sort of cost has been involved getting it up to this stage?

 

[u33db]

Ha - you may ask.......!

Seriously though, the (rounded) price list runs as follows.


Williams front shocks - 80 quid in total,
Williams wishbones - 100 quid in toal,
Williams ARB - 70 quid in total,
Williams Driveshafts - 300 quid in total,
Williams ARB Bushes and misc clips - 40 quid.
Going by the above its been about £590 - not cheap and that excludes labout. However, anyone doing the same would be able to sell their 16v shocks, ARB and shafts to cover some of the cost (which i will). Also, although ive gone for all new willy bits im certain that you could could get everything except the shafts from a damaged R19 16V. Definatively, only the short (passenger side) R19 16V driveshaft can be used - the longer drivers side shaft is about half an inch too long and will cause serious vibrations though the car (if you can even get it to fit!).

 

[BenR]

So that was the problem then?

 

[u33db]

Well, dont know for sure but fairly certain it will be.

Thought its unlikely to be gearbox differences (as people have put JC5s in a valver without modifying the track and no problems) so it can only be the shaft difference i think...hope....

 

[u33db]

Driveshafts will be here tomorrow so not long now....

 

[Ali]

Better be ready for the aberdeen meet fella!!!

 

[u33db]

Yeah - i know! Think if this doesnt work im going to break down into tears this time. What a nightmere its been!

 

[peterh2]

Ill want to have a good chat with you about it at the Aberdeen meet u33db, im getting my valver next week and was thinking of doing this conversion asap.

 

[u33db]

Youve managed to find one?! That was quick - whats the details (age, milage, colour etc) on it m8?

 

[peterh2]

Yer I have put a deposit down on the one Infinicar is selling, should be collecting it on wed the 21st.

Its L reg, 92,000 miles, FRSH, blue

Here is a pic:

http://www.zesthost.com/mynewcar.jpg

 

[u33db]

Infinicar? Youll have got a good car then - Paul is a top bloke.

You got much planned for it? A set of phase 1 alloys and youd have a replica of mine....

 

[peterh2]

Well my budget is a bit tight as I spent a bit more on the car than I was going to but decided I might as well get a decent one.

Paul’s said I can either have the TSWs that are currently fitted to it or a set of the original ones I’m still deciding any input would be appreciated on that.

I plan to do a few trackdays and stuff so was thinking the Williams track conversion might be a good idea.

I will try to keep the look fairly standard as I’m not into the massively modified cars look, but when I get a bit more cash together I may be tempted for a williams engine conversion if I can get one at the right price as well.

 

[u33db]

Right enough there - buying a cheap one will cost a lot more in the long run (will tell you about my valver experience at the meet next week!).

As for the wheels id be tempted to put on the originals - i find that very few aftermarket wheels look "right" on these cars and never look as good as standard IMO. Still, this is coming from someone thats sold their mp3 player to have an original tape player just for the "feel" so make of that what you will!