High performance pads that still cope on the road.

[frayz]

Experience with brake pads, talk to me.

I don’t hoon about regularly on the road, but I do want significantly more performance than I currently have if possible. (Holy grail I know)

Requirement:
• Offer significantly more performance than Ferodo DS2500.
• Non corrosive dust.
• Will not break down under daily use.

Car currently has:
• Ferodo DS2500 all round.
• Hel braided hoses.
• Motul RBF660.

I’ve had 5 sets of Ferodo DS2500s across various cars now, both in OEM and AP Racing calipers and I have to say they are absolutely awful in the front.
Personally I find they have no bite, no feel, they fade on the road let alone track, and they deposit on the discs. I don't know why I continued to buy them and expect a different result.
However everytime I go down this path everyone says “oh you want DS2500 on the road”. 🤦🏽‍♂️

Performance Friction.
Best pads I've ever used were the PF01s on the Clio. However they ate a set of Brembo HC discs in 12k miles and the paint on 2 sets of Speedlines in that time.
I’m aware they were not ideal to use daily as they didn’t live in their temperature zone enough. Im aware alot of their braking was mechanical which is not ideal.
I’ve got some new 97s here but know these will be the same.
I can't live with 01 again on my nice wheels. So they're out.
(£££ irrelevant)

Pagid RS29
I love these, ceramic based, mega kind to discs with good pad life however ideally I'd like more bite and they're a bit spendy on the little Clio pad. I’ve used these on my Impreza, my GP1 and the Cayman R has them all round.
I also think the Clio is probably a bit light for them.
Circa £270

Pagid RS14
Again, ceramic based with more bite than the 29 but less life. Not used these personally.
Circa £250

Ferodo DS1.11
Silica, carbon metallic based.
Cheaper than Pagids RS range and supposed to be good. Current pad of choice for the Clio cup, but I can't find anyone that uses them on the road daily as they’re supposed to suffer with crumbling in the wet conditions.
Circa £200

Carbon Lorraine
Carbon metallic and will eat paintwork from what I hear and that I won't put up with. I hear these are similar to the PFs, although happy to be educated if I’m wrong.
Circa £185

Carbotech
Ian @ Carbotech recommended the XP8 which is supposed to be less aggressive in terms of dust and shouldn’t eat my wheels. The EVO boys seem to like these although. It sure if anyone daily’s them In a Clio. Also not exactly off the shelf as these are custom made to order.
Circa £210

Car is my daily that I also will track, I don't care if they squeal, I don't care if they're dusty.
I just don't want a wheel refurb every 400yds so they can't be corrosive.

Any input or experience of the above? I'm happy to listen of genuine real experience with the above.

Thanks. 🙂👍🏼

 

[Danith]

Mintex 1144 supposed to be ok for road and track up to a (low) pt!

DS2500 are gash.

If not fussed about dust, PBS pads are my pads of choice on my track car

 

[frayz]

Mintex 1144 supposed to be ok for road.

DS2500 are gash.

Unfortunately if you want proper bitey and high temp coping pads, you're gonna have to settle for dust etc.

Im aware im asking for the impossible lo. I don't mind the dust or even the occasional noise. My car hasn't worn any anti rattle shims since about 10k miles lol.
Its the dust being corrosive and welding to my wheels that bothers me. Using the car in all weathers this can be a pain.

 

[Daz...]

Have you tried Mintex 1155?

They squeal when you’re braking lightly, but just seem to get better as you lean on them.

The dust they kick out doesn’t seem to do any damage to wheels either.

 

[Danith]

Im aware im asking for the impossible lo. I don't mind the dust or even the occasional noise. My car hasn't worn any anti rattle shims since about 10k miles lol.
Its the dust being corrosive and welding to my wheels that bothers me. Using the car in all weathers this can be a pain.

I get that, in same boat! I seal all my wheels now with gyeon or C5.

brake dust from the PBS after a full track day just wipes off. ds2500 were a bugger for corrosive dust

 

[frayz]

Have you tried Mintex 1155?

They squeal when you’re braking lightly, but just seem to get better as you lean on them.

The dust they kick out doesn’t seem to do any damage to wheels either.

I haven’t in my own car. Driven other non Clios with them and felt similar to a 2500. Wasn’t remarkable from memory.
Maybe I should try them?

 

[MarkCup]

If you care about your wheels and/or paintwork, leave the PF97s well alone.

Running a set on mine was the beginning of its cosmetic downfall...

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

If you care about your wheels and/or paintwork, leave the PF97s well alone.

Running a set on mine was the beginning of its cosmetic downfall...

View attachment 1471761

If you'd kept it under 88mph, you'd have been ok.

 

[MarkCup]

If you'd kept it under 88mph, you'd have been ok.

They had their upsides too...

 

[imprezaworks]

1155 as mentioned. Had them and liked.
Pagid pads from ecp. About £20 and I did a trackday on them.

 

[frayz]

If you care about your wheels and/or paintwork, leave the PF97s well alone.

Running a set on mine was the beginning of its cosmetic downfall...

View attachment 1471761

My PFC 01s were similar till they were up to temp. Once hot they didn't spark anymore. On the road they just didn't get hot enough to be in their optimum heat range. The braking was still mega, but i don't want wheels full of angle grinders every day

 

[frayz]

1155 as mentioned. Had them and liked.
Pagid pads from ecp. About £20 and I did a trackday on them.

Originally i threw in some genuine Brembo OEMs as i thought they would be more than adequate. Very quickly i was wanting more, a lot more lol.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Its a real tough one. Unfortunately to get the bite you may be wanting, the materials in the pads tend to have downsides when used on the road.
I think you need to try two pads.
The Mintex M1155 (when breaking them in you will think they are on fire with the smell). Bit s**t when stone cold but the clio has a small pad so it doesnt take too long to get up to working temperature. The Mintex seem to cope well with integrity too.

The other one thats a little more unknown is the PBS ProTrack. Its a milder compound to the ProRace so more suited to road and light track use. Its not one I've tried as I'm working through some old Mintex M1144's at the moment but it uses small teeth on the backing plate to hold it together so wont fall apart and crumble like race pads either.

I dont think you are going to find many others that are cost effective. I use Winmax W3 on my Toyota but it feels oem (but with better bite) so I'm not sure thats the characteristic you'd want.

 

[JamesBryan]

I'm happy with the PBS pads in mine.

You need front and rear ideally, to compliment each other.

I'd like to try Winmax at some point though.

 

[Usr117063]

The ds1.11 havnt crumbled in mine for daily use, so far. I was asking questions on pads a bit ago, as they are a very good pad but need a bit of up keep, if you feather the brakes in traffic everywhere the discs start to lose the pad deposit.

 

[Eddie555]

Ive used 2 sets of PBS and although very good from cold and excellent with no fade and quite good feel when hot, they are not very long lasting.. Bear in mind that mine is a predominantly a track car only with very little use on the road.. Each set of PBS ONLY lasted 3 full trackdays. Brake dust is plentiful but not corrosive as it just washes straight off with Autosmart Red 7 wheel cleaner.. I have for the last 10 trackdays been using Carbotech XP10, now these are leaps ahead of the PBS in feel and endurance.. I recently checked them and I'd say im about halfway through them. Theyre not as dusty and same again i just spray with Red 7 and wheels come up sweet.. I have used them on road and under light braking on both PBS and the XP10 there has been little to no noise..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

 

[frayz]

Cheers for the responses chaps.
There’s a bit part of me that just says buy some RS29s as they’re a known entity of something I like, works well lasts ages.

It’s difficult as brakes are a very subjective part of a car and what feels good one one persons really doesn’t work for someone else. I had tried to do as much reading as I could on the PBS items but there isn’t really that much info out on them other than they seem to sponsor the Civic guys race series.

Also haven’t heard a great deal on the Winnmax so I’ll have a look into the makeup of these too.

I’ve spoken to Ian at Carbotech today, Pagid UK and PFC UK. PFC now only have a few remaining sets of 97s left and no other options for our Calipers. Once they’re gone, they’re gone which is a shame. All the latest Clio Cup cars are running a full PFC Brake package but that’s a totally different setup to what we have and not available to fit under a 15” wheel.

Still have my reservations about the 1155 also as they’re still £150 odd quid and worthless to flog of I don’t like em. Crazy mentality I know, I just wanna be as certain as I can be before pulling the trigger.

 

[Amos91]

My DS1.11s squeal very very loud and are very heavy on the dust side, seems to clean up fine though. They do have a very strong bite even from cold, with pilot sport 3s you can get the abs working hard even in the dry.

 

[imprezaworks]

Is that how much they are (,1155)

Think I paid a lot less than that a few years ago

 

[frayz]

Is that how much they are (,1155)

Think I paid a lot less than that a few years ago

Sorry my mistake £126 from Kam for the 55s

 

[Daz...]

I paid less than £100 for my 1155’s a few years ago, I assumed they were still that price tbh.

 

[frayz]

My DS1.11s squeal very very loud and are very heavy on the dust side, seems to clean up fine though. They do have a very strong bite even from cold, with pilot sport 3s you can get the abs working hard even in the dry.

What are they like on discs Olly? A lot of metal removal? Not bothered about squeel so much, it’s more about performance, reasonable durability in terms of life and dust that doesn’t eat the wheels and bodywork.

 

[cp1991]

I have pagid rs 4-2 blue on mine work fine from cold and have great pedal feel and modulation, but are quite expensive now and can't be quite noisy when pottering around, they do leave quite a bit of dust but never noticed any problems with them damaging the wheels and the paint mine were sat in a damp garage with no use for around 12 months and look and perform fine now im using them again.

 

[Amos91]

What are they like on discs Olly? A lot of metal removal? Not bothered about squeel so much, it’s more about performance, reasonable durability in terms of life and dust that doesn’t eat the wheels and bodywork.

I’ve only used them to and from the track as I have a road and track set of discs, but I would say they are pretty harsh on discs, more so than the PBS pads.

After a few track days -

 

[Usr117063]

The ds1.11 can be virtually silent and have been for me, but as I said if you feather them and put a bit of heat into them, followed by road driving they squeal. Just brake heavy every stop problem solved

 

[Amos91]

The ds1.11 can be virtually silent and have been for me, but as I said if you feather them and put a bit of heat into them, followed by road driving they squeal. Just brake heavy every stop problem solved

Both of my sets have sounded like a freight train coming to a stop on the road. Fine on track though!

 

[Usr117063]

Both of my sets have sounded like a freight train coming to a stop on the road. Fine on track though!

Do you have brake ducts/no fogs? I had my fogs out for a short while and they wanted to squeal more

 

[Amos91]

Do you have brake ducts/no fogs? I had my fogs out for a short while and they wanted to squeal more

Nope all pretty standard on that front!

 

[mossyv6]

My last Titanium 182 came with Mintex 1144’s on HC discs and I was really impressed with the performance - just a little noisy.

 

[frayz]

Thanks for all the superb responses guys. Out of interest, what are you running on the rear to go with your front pads of choice?
You hear lots of people say there’s no point upgrading the rear as it doesn’t do anything on the Clio. However I’m a big believer in getting proper pads in the rear of the car too. You feel the rear end bite under braking and the whole car brakes with far greater stability.

 

[Eddie555]

Thanks for all the superb responses guys. Out of interest, what are you running on the rear to go with your front pads of choice?
You hear lots of people say there’s no point upgrading the rear as it doesn’t do anything on the Clio. However I’m a big believer in getting proper pads in the rear of the car too. You feel the rear end bite under braking and the whole car brakes with far greater stability.

Ah i forgot to say.. I have PBS in the rear of mine.. And yes i can definitely feel the difference with having them in as i had OE brembos in previously.. People do seem to say the rear do very little but i can say with the pbs in,the car does feels better underbraking. Theyve also been in for roughly 12 full trackdays and are roughly half dead..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

 

[frayz]

I have pagid rs 4-2 blue on mine work fine from cold and have great pedal feel and modulation, but are quite expensive now and can't be quite noisy when pottering around, they do leave quite a bit of dust but never noticed any problems with them damaging the wheels and the paint mine were sat in a damp garage with no use for around 12 months and look and perform fine now im using them again.

Are you running the RS4-2s all round or just up front. Chatting with a few of the Pagid guys I’m thinking RS29 up front and the RS4-2 in the rear.

 

[cp1991]

just up front, rears are just standard but are almost ready to be replaced so if you do go with better pads in the rear let me know how you find it.

 

[Stevej172]

I have PBS pads and they have been good on the track, much better than other pads I've had on clios. Also work fine on the road even from cold.

Brother has 1144 and again they are good for both, although would say they take a little bit more warming up to get the best from them.

 

[Kev@KAM]

I paid less than £100 for my 1155’s a few years ago, I assumed they were still that price tbh.

If only things stayed the same price! Usually its 3-4% a year increase on most products as materials and wages rise.

It’s difficult as brakes are a very subjective part of a car and what feels good one one persons really doesn’t work for someone else. I had tried to do as much reading as I could on the PBS items but there isn’t really that much info out on them other than they seem to sponsor the Civic guys race series.

This in spades. Sometimes you have to take a punt and try a few to get an idea of what works for you. I've used a lot and now know to stick with what I like.
The PBS are cheap and as a brand push hard to stay very competitive on price so worth trying before putting expensive endurance pads on.

Also haven’t heard a great deal on the Winnmax so I’ll have a look into the makeup of these too.

I sell a lot of these but mostly to trackday and race customers. Their prices on their road pads are not so competitive. They are great to drive on the road but are not going to significantly outperform the Ferodo except with a much nicer pedal feel.
Their track pads have metallic blends of materials so I do not think they are going to be right for you for a pure road car where wheel paint and dust matters.
TBHI see those in a similar light to the DS1.11 which I wouldnt use on a pure road car either.

 

[frayz]

Thanks for your input Kev, i know what you mean about knowing what you like and agree sometimes a punt is needed.
Also funny how owners of different marques of cars seem to lean towards one brand than another.
As of yesterday i was leaning towards the Carbotech, today im more and more towards the Pagids that i know i like.

 

[Krarl]

I have PBS front and rear in mine

Good pads and they did an afternoon at CSF on s**t quality discs with no issues. Only gripe I have about them is that they need a bit of heat to start grabbing properly

 

[gez 172]

I haven’t in my own car. Driven other non Clios with them and felt similar to a 2500. Wasn’t remarkable from memory.
Maybe I should try them?

@frayz ive found the 1155 unreal on the road and track - trumps the ds2500 - I’ve had both. You do get some squeal from the 1155, but the bite they give more than makes up for that.

1155’a blew my mind how much more confidence I had in braking distances. When they’re up to temp, they were amazing. I’d get no fade from them even from 140mph stamps on the brakes. I’d get a hard peddle, but no fade.

 

[JB21]

DS1.11 all the way! Used them on my Clio and Octavia on the road no problem. When they start squealing they just need a good heat cycle.

Another option is EBC bluestuff. Good cold bite, no squeal and last ages. Oh and they're cheap.

 

[plenty]

I've only owned a Clio for 200 miles so can't offer specific advice for this platform, other that the DS1.11s on my car have incredible bite but are incredibly loud when warm.

As others have said, performance comes at a price in terms of dust and disc wear. There is no pad that offers better performance than DS2500 with comparably low dust. So it's a matter of working out how much dust and disc wear you are willing to tolerate, versus how much performance you want.