How serious are my 172s problems?

[bbess]

Hi,

First time post, so hello all

I bought a Monaco blue PH2 172 52 plate on Saturday. 66K, clean on outside, no obvious issues under the bonnet and it test drove well.

After getting used to it today, I've noticed a few problems:

1. It is very lumpy at idle. It feels like it is on the edge of stalling and will bounce me up and down slightly in traffic. Edging forward in traffic with no throttle (just gently off the clutch) stalls the car, even downhill! At low revs (below about 2,000 rpm) it feels lumpy too; rev it harder and its fine, pulls well and smoothly. Bonnet open at idle, the engine shakes like it is going to cut out.

2. When trying emergency stops (testing the brakes to see what they're like), the brakes are quite good and responsive until the ABS kicks in. Once I can hear and feel the ABS, the braking is not good. The pedal feels like pressing against a brick wall. Surely the brakes should continue to slow you down once the ABS kicks in? Is there anyway to disconnect ABS, so that I can see if the brakes are any good without it?

3. Crazy torque steer.

4. When the car is above 60mph, it feels like there is a swirling wind outside making it sway slightly, and twitch.

Over a very, very steady 65 mile round trip (included 50 mins of stop-start traffic, around town driving and 25 miles of dual-carriageway), I got 37 MPG. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance for your replies. My main worry is the engine at idle

Blake

 

[Ezra-RS]

The idle can be a faulty sensor (map for example). Or plugs, coil pack, leads. I had the same symptoms and after trying and replacing everything it was the intake manifold taking in air.

But didn't it do this before you bought it?

 

[bbess]

It didn't do it on the test drive, as it only really does it when hot.

How easy is it to change the map sensor?

What did you do to fix your problem?

Can you now come off your clutch with no throttle?

 

[Ezra-RS]

Yes I sometimes couldn't even come to a stop at a roundabout without stalling the engine. Keeping the revs up up while breaking was the only solution during that period.
As I said for me it was the intake manifold that wasn't completely closed off by the gasket so it was pulling false air. All is fine now.

But before finding that I changed and tried a lot of parts. The map sensor (on the left side of the engine when standing in front) just pulls out. I cleaned the injectors and changed plugs, coil pack and leads. Tried another (good working) throttle body. Also checked the timing it was still correct (just had a timing belt change + dephaser).

Anyway, there's a lot of things to clear of the list. Maybe a good point to start is to go to a dealer or someone in your area that has an rstuner and get a readout of faults. I'm sure there's someone who can help you. This could give you a point where to start looking.

 

[bbess]

Thanks for your help! You seem to be the only person who has found a solution to this problem.

How did you fix your manifold problem? Is it a DIY job? I don't know a huge amount about fixing cars, I've only really changed brake pads and oil. Are there guides of how to carry out these jobs?

Also, from reading on the forums, my brake problem sounds like a knackered servo. Does this sound right to you?

 

[Ezra-RS]

My manifold problem wasn't a common error. It wasn't 100% straight anymore so I sanded it slightly until it was straigthened out. But that was the fix in my case. In your case it's not sure yet where it comes from. That's why you need to get its faults read. I guess you don't own an rstuner?

If you don't I'd suggest posting a message on the forum asking for someone in your area to check the error codes. If it has any you'll probably get a lot wiser. It might even tell you what's broken. It only takes 5 mins so easy enough.

About the brakes I don't know. Only ever changed discs, calipers and pads. Never messed around with ABS. And there are a lot of good guides/tutorials on here but you have to be a paying member to see them.

 

[Nickwillyhams]

Thanks for your help! You seem to be the only person who has found a solution to this problem.

How did you fix your manifold problem? Is it a DIY job? I don't know a huge amount about fixing cars, I've only really changed brake pads and oil. Are there guides of how to carry out these jobs?

Also, from reading on the forums, my brake problem sounds like a knackered servo. Does this sound right to you?

If you join up mate there's loads of good guides to help you out

 

[bbess]

There's no Haynes manual is there? Might be worth joining TBH.

 

[Nickwillyhams]

It's definatly worth it, pictures and step by step instructions of allsorts of mechanical jobs.

 

[bbess]

I'll join up tomorrow then

Except for these few problems, its a great car. I just don't know how much its going to cost me to get the bottom of them.

 

[plymcl172]

number 4 could be balancing or get a geo check to see if its in shape, toe in toe out etc.

 

[Emajane]

Just to let you know when you remove your inlet manifold, if you do, the gaskets (the inlet gasket and the oil breather) are actually cheaper from Renault

Your MPG sounds good! Mine has just returned from Nurburgring (before my misfire problem) and did an average of 35mpg

 

[bbess]

MPG isn't too bad. How much are the gaskets from Renault?

 

[M26]

Lumpy idle from cold is a characteristic of the car. They all do it. Very well documented on here.

 

[sbridgey]

Who buys inlet manifold gaskets?

 

[bbess]

M26, just how lumpy is normal? Mines cuts out sometimes.

 

[Adam G]

Not that lumpy to cut out. It's only for about a minute or so from cold too. Afterwards mine idles at around 600rpm

 

[bbess]

Mine does it all the time and it's worse when it it's hot.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

2, 3, 4... what tyres have you got ? I bet a decent set of new rubber will solve all of these. Remember that tyres are the only thing between you and the tarmac...

When ABS takes over, it does feel like that and it's a very odd feeling if you're not expecting it. The ABS pump takes over the control of each wheel individually so you have no control any more. The car is stopping wheels locking many times a second and it is hell bent on making wheel speed zero on each corner. You can take the fuse out to stop the pump working but this will set the balance to 50/50 meaning the first time you touch the pedal, the back end will lock and you'll be in the bushes before you can say 'watch this....'. So don't do that.

Get 4 new decent tyres on there and I bet you £5 all those issues go away.

As for your MPG - that sounds about right from a ph2. There's billions of MPG threads - have a search

 

[Bobby.]

Try cleaning the throttle body out for the engine issue.

 

[bbess]

The car came with 3, new 'Accelera' tyres that are almost definitely in 'budget' league. The rear nearside is a half worn Continental. So, TheEvilGiraffe, you may have a point.

As for the brakes, I had a go in my mates 1.4 Clio (drum & ABS) and the brakes were far better than the ones on my 172. With mine, I have about an inch of good braking performance and then the pedal goes completely solid. When the pedal goes solid, the brakes are awful. After looking on the forums, it seems like a servo issue. Does this sound right?

 

[bbess]

I took my throttle body off today and cleaned it but hasn't seemed to have helped the engine issue.

 

[VikkiB]

It could be timing related. I know Dan has had to correct a few from a certain garage in Devon that had been done incorrectly. If you want a specialist to look over it, drop Danlp6 a Pm.

 

[bbess]

Thanks Vikki. After reading about the effects of incorrect timing, it seems like it could be my problem.

Do you know much someone would charge to adjust the timing?

 

[VikkiB]

Dan charges £105 for a check and adjust if necessary. Sadly it has to be done using genuine tools. Anything else bends easily and gives the wrong timing.

 

[Dan@SJM]

I will also add, that I will check it on CLiP too, so you get a free diagnostics check too.

 

[bbess]

The previous owner said the cambelt has recently been done. With this check, would you be able to tell if it has actually been done recently?

If it it's not the timing, would you be able to clean sensors etc?

Where are you based?

How long would it take?

 

[Dan@SJM]

I can certainly give an opinion of if its over a few months old but that's about it sadly. I can have a look at the readings and see if any sensors are giving dodgy readings. whole process would take about 3 hours, but I'm located just by clarks village, so drop my customers off there and you can do a bit of shopping.

 

[Coops Mk1]

could be lambda sensor, that controls idle etc

could also be a kippered injector, need to check your plugs, if one is covered in soot and the rest are fine, its an injector thats fubar

 

[plymcl172]

I would get it over to Dan

he did a cracking job on my cambelt timing wouldn't take my car anywhere else TBH

 

[bbess]

May be a stupid question, so please forgive me.

When I took my throttle body off to clean, I looked through the hole (made by taking the throttle body off) and I could see a small puddle of petrol sat in the inlet manifold. Is this normal? Could it mean that my engine is running rich? Not getting enough air to it?

 

[Dan@SJM]

You'll probably find its oil. But they can get a bit built up but a puddle is a worry.

 

[bbess]

What would cause the build up of oil Danlp6?

Also, do you think timing is my issue? It seems smooth once it's revved beyond 1500 rpm.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Tbh it's very difficult to say without seeing it. Some can drive fine and fall flat on their arse over 5.5k others will idle like a pig and go like stink over 5k. It really depends how the timing is out.

 

[Darren61]

I had a really lumpy idle on mine but the engine timing was so far out. I only discovered this when having the cam belt etc changed this month. Before that I changed plugs, injectors, cleaned throttle body and had a blowing exhaust replaced. That has basically smoothed it out to how it should be now. But as said before they are definatley lumpy from cold.

 

[l33th3tr33]

I'm another to vouch for Dan, he's a decent honest guy and works wonders on these things. I took mine to have belts and whatnot done, I thought it ran alright, had a definite 5k kick but when I got it back it was a different car, much more useable and pulled a lot harder. It's definitely worth the trip.

Mine torque steered like a b**ch and I got the tracking done yesterday and it sorted it.

Just noticed you're in brixham too so I'll probably see you around!

 

[Corby G]

Mines very lumpy on idle, so much so it judders the car in neutral with the handbrake off. It's just a s**t car when it's cold XD

 

[Dan@SJM]

Right, little update with this. I had it in yesterday to replace the aux kit and faulty alternator

I have ZERO doubt in my mind the timing is out. I found so much stuff bodged, broken or just missing on small simple stuff that if they can't do that, then what chances do they have of doing the timing correctly?

Pics of some stuff:

Bent slam panel

Bolt missing from the alternator

Tensioner broken

Belt starting to wear/fray

Stripped threads in the cambelt cover/oil leak from the camshaft oil seals (can also see vague marks from previous belt change)

Having driven it, rear shocks knackered, terrible tyres causing other issues.

 

[l33th3tr33]

Wow! I bet you're glad you took it to up to dan now!

 

[bbess]

Engine problem resolved today!

Cambelt change by Danlp6 and its now running sweet! No more cutting out or stalling - idles much better too.

Thanks Dan, it was worth the drive