Jam-Sport wilwood kit

[...]

In my personal opinion if you are upgrading stopping power by the amounts you suggest the 4 pots give you would also look at increasing grip levels in terms of suspension and tyres to at least the same amount if not more

I used to run 230bhp and 500kgs on discs bells and a wilwood midilight kit , however if it was not running slicks you had total overkill on braking to the point i would run much softer pads on 048's to slicks.

when i have been out on track with people who say that this brake or that is not up to it , normally the way they brake comes into the mix , as they are often braking in a road style which is gradually increased pressure , this increases heat build up and gives the issues .

on track you should have a braking point , hit the brakes at that point , come off them and get the turn in done , i do left foot to the apex alot , but havn't suffered fade issue even running heavy road cars on standard setups ,

Like most things in the car modifying world there are myths and lies , all for differing reasons , and very very rarely do people realize what a totally standard car is capable of .......

let a professional driver take you out on track in a standard car , and then think why when he laps it 5 or more seconds a lap faster than your modifies one ....... not saying peoples mods on anything are wrong , but seeing the daylight through the bullshit is a revelation .

 

[Chip-mk1]

Also - are you permanently connected to the internet? You always seem to be online when I am - and I'm a web developer LOL

Whenever Im at the PC or on a laptop I always have a browser open and just tab back and fourth as im working mate.

 

[...]

Lol, yeah "problably"



My biggest issue with those kits is that you are spending so much money just to end up with some quite poor quality calipers anyway, why not pay a bit more once you are that far in and get something decent instead?

Personally ive used willwoods before (last time was on my cams and itb trackday corsa that I only got rid of less than a year ago) but only as a cheap way to get less unsprung weight when bought secondhand for a few hundred quid, once you are into paying for seperate disks and bells and custom brackets etc it seems a bit of a poor choice of caliper to go with it.

indeed ...... when i fitted my wilwood kit i wished i had fitted AP's , however they would not run on the disc bell setup i ran ...... boy was that light !!

 

[Chip-mk1]

If bought new I agree as £1200 is insane, but for £600 it's not bad value for money

Trouble is though, by the time its 600 quid that tends to mean that the pads need replacing and so do the disks, at which point you are back upto halfway between the 600 and 1200 again, lol

And yes there are a lot of scare stories about wilwoods flexing and bending etc.. but at the end of the day its a 1ton french hatch back - it doesn't take much stopping lol
I could have gone down the route of spending double and getting the TDF kit like James... but lol

You dont need to spend that much to get decent calipers, personally I have done it a couple of times by fitting calipers off of other cars and make up my own brackets. I'd much sooner have a set of OEM Brembo calipers than willwood for example.

 

[Adamm.]

Whenever Im at the PC or on a laptop I always have a browser open and just tab back and fourth as im working mate.

Do you get much work done by any chance?

 

[Advikaz]

I agree with Harv tbh. Seen so many people being gradual on brakes which cooks the life out of them.

Power-brake-turn in-power. As quickly smoothly & efficiently as possible.

 

[Harpham]

Overkill or not, they look badass to fcuk.

 

[Chip-mk1]

indeed ...... when i fitted my wilwood kit i wished i had fitted AP's , however they would not run on the disc bell setup i ran ...... boy was that light !!

The way I ended up with wilwoods for my corsa for example was I bought a secondhand kit for a golf for a few hundred quid as I wanted to use the disks with some Alcon 6 pot calipers I had happened across for my nova and then as the wilwood calipers were just sat there I figured I would use them on the corsa so knocked up some brackets, they didnt stop any better than on the previous brakes but were a lot lighter, so worth it in that respect.
I'd only ever use them under those circumstances though, sod paying 1200 quid for a brake kit with such cheap calipers in, i'd sooner pay 1500-1800 for a proper kit, but I guess thats just personal preference.

 

[...]

I agree with Harv tbh. Seen so many people being gradual on brakes which cooks the life out of them.

Power-brake-turn in-power. As quickly smoothly & efficiently as possible.

its one of the biggest single reasons for cooked brakes on trackdays ...... when you get to trail braking to apexes then it ups the loading's again , but that's not a technique really needed for track days , as there is nothing to gain .....

 

[Advikaz]

its one of the biggest single reasons for cooked brakes on trackdays ...... when you get to trail braking to apexes then it ups the loading's again , but that's not a technique really needed for track days , as there is nothing to gain .....

It has its place, but as you say on track days it's bad practice tbh.

See so many people over driving cars, very entertaining tho lol.

 

[...]

The way I ended up with wilwoods for my corsa for example was I bought a secondhand kit for a golf for a few hundred quid as I wanted to use the disks with some Alcon 6 pot calipers I had happened across for my nova and then as the wilwood calipers were just sat there I figured I would use them on the corsa so knocked up some brackets, they didnt stop any better than on the previous brakes but were a lot lighter, so worth it in that respect.
I'd only ever use them under those circumstances though, sod paying 1200 quid for a brake kit with such cheap calipers in, i'd sooner pay 1500-1800 for a proper kit, but I guess thats just personal preference.

we are talking 7 or 8 years ago , and the kit was half the cost of the ap setup that could be used , but there are not a huge amount of options on 7 type cars due to getting things that will run in a 13" rim .

 

[...]

It has its place, but as you say on track days it's bad practice tbh.

See so many people over driving cars, very entertaining tho lol.

then i look at my last few years when i went back to top level karting , and i was doing a set of pads a weekend ....... and in fact would bed a set last thing on a saturday and fit for sunday as in the hotter summer months i could do a set on a race day ...... power braking kills pads , discs and clutches .....

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do you get much work done by any chance?

Yeah, enough to pay the bills thanks mate.
I type ludicrously quickly so people probably think I spend a lot longer on replies than I actually do some of the time I suspect.

 

[s0fty]

I have this kit too (http://www.jam-sport.co.uk/home/ren...ot-brake-kit-with-seperate-bell-ap-rotor.html) and no way can you have driven with them to say there was no advantage over the standard 1*2 setup with upgraded pads ferodo ds2500, brembo hc discs, eairls braded lines and AP fluid.

Your willwoods must have been knackered or fitted like a spaz or your bull s**tting you have driven on them as that kit with AP rotors and bells have not that long been out. I think your talking about this kit http://www.jam-sport.co.uk/home/renault-clio-172/brakes/renault-clio-295mm-4pot-brake-kit.html and even then there's no doubt that there still better than the above standard kit. I have only just upgraded my discs from that kit above to the AP rotors and bells and they make even more difference.

I have driven with both and I can truly say willwoods are better no doubt about it and they stop the car on its noise.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I have this kit too (http://www.jam-sport.co.uk/home/ren...ot-brake-kit-with-seperate-bell-ap-rotor.html) and no way can you have driven with them to say there was no advantage over the standard 1*2 setup with upgraded pads ferodo ds2500, brembo hc discs, eairls braded lines and AP fluid.

Your willwoods must have been knackered or fitted like a spaz or your bull s**tting you have driven on them as that kit with AP rotors and bells have not that long been out. I think your talking about this kit
http://www.jam-sport.co.uk/home/renault-clio-172/brakes/renault-clio-295mm-4pot-brake-kit.h and even then there's no doubt that there still better than the above standard kit. I have only just upgraded my discs from that kit above to the AP rotorsand bells and they make even more difference.

I have driven with both and I can truly say willwoods are better no doubt about it and they stop the car on its noise.

Im talking about the Jamsport supplied kit on Porkies ITB cup which I have driven on track and on the road, its fantastic, but so are the standard calipers when running DS3000 pads as well, his might be the older kit if its changed recently then, must confess I dont know off hand as I havent ever done any work to do with the brakes (Mark Fish takes care of that) I just was involved in building and mapped the engine.

 

[s0fty]

Yer there new with the AP rotors and bells not long been out with the AP discs. But they do make the whole kit much better.

 

[Adamm.]

Yeah, enough to pay the bills thanks mate.

Only having a crack mate! .

I couldn't type that fast for s**t.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yer there new with the AP rotors and bells not long been out with the AP discs. But they do make the whole kit much better.

Im sure they do help in terms of fade mate and the little bit of extra leverage is potentially useful too if you find the standard ones cant cope with how you drive (must be a lot harder on the brakes than me as even my turbo is coping ok on uprated standards at the moment), as would fitting those rotors and bells on standard calipers

 

[Cup_Phil]

I must admit the standard brakes were fine up until I started trail braking - I guess that does add quite a bit of heat to the mix

Even saying they were "fine" though - the wilwood kit allows braking MUCH later, which is always fun on track when people think they've got along side you then realise you're going to brake a lot later than them lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

the wilwood kit allows braking MUCH later

With a set of DS3000 unless you are running slicks or going into a very high speed corner its normally the tyres not the brakes that dictate how late you can brake on the standard setup IME.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I wouldn't run DS3000's on a road car though

 

[Fletcher]

I wouldn't run DS3000's on a road car though

They're fine. Except they ruin wheels/ paintwork.

 

[Advikaz]

Can't say I've ever had problems late braking on standard modified set ups.

Besides braking late is only good if you have the grip to corner at the entry speed without scrubbing off speed & ruining your exit run.

The idea is to enter at a usable speed if you need to lift or god forbid brake mid corner because you've gone in too hot it's pointless, you'll just unbalance the car & probably run wide.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I wouldn't run DS3000's on a road car though

Me neither, but I wouldnt run wilwoods on one either, lol
(If you have a wheel bearing go on the standard caliper it has a fighting chance of keeping the wheel on the cap via the disk, but on the willwoods it will just sheer the caliper off too I'd expect, they really arent very strong.)

That the pads that were in Porkies cup so what I was comparing to for a like for like comparison to the best wilwood setup on a clio ive driven on.

Personally for a road car and occasional trackday car I think the mega reliable standard calipers with a set of pagid blue pads is pretty much perfection, or DS2500 as another alternative.

 

[Chip-mk1]

They're fine. Except they ruin wheels/ paintwork.

And sound horific.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I think I'm way beyond the sensible to run phase - I hit that when I put door bars in and a group N exhaust system

 

[Fletcher]

And sound horific.

Yeah everyone says that, but my current set fitted to my 4 pots are very quiet.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah everyone says that, but my current set fitted to my 4 pots are very quiet.

Ive been in lots of cars with them on either normal calipers or 4 pots and never found a quiet set yet, try slowing down gently at low speeds to a stop with your window down and you will work out why everyone is looking at your car like its broke, lol

 

[Sir_Dave]

Personally for a road car and occasional trackday car I think the mega reliable standard calipers with a set of pagid blue pads is pretty much perfection, or DS2500 as another alternative.

RC5+ are pretty much the best daily/track pad imho, DS3000/RC6 just eat paint/wheels/everything. That do rattle though, which does get on my nerves a tad. DS2500's are pretty decent however, its what'll be going on the T for Bedford, mainly as its all i have lying around at the mo.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You'll still have the trophy in two weeks? :O

 

[Sir_Dave]

You'll still have the trophy in two weeks? :O

lol, i only bought it for Bedford tbh. Didnt fancy doing it in an auto, no matter how good DSG is, i knew it would irritate me.

 

[s0fty]

On a 387bhp Clio Sport with standard calipers, DS2500 pads, HC discs, earls braded lines and AP fluid will not do the job. Trust the willwood calipers, DS2500 pads, AP rotors and bells with earls braded lines and AP fluid will.

What are a better road pad for willwoods? I have DS2500 in they seem good on the road after a bit of warming up.

 

[Chip-mk1]

lol, i only bought it for Bedford tbh. Didnt fancy doing it in an auto, no matter how good DSG is, i knew it would irritate me.

Flol, fair enough mate, see you there

 

[Tony Hunter]

In my personal opinion if you are upgrading stopping power by the amounts you suggest the 4 pots give you would also look at increasing grip levels in terms of suspension and tyres to at least the same amount if not more

I used to run 230bhp and 500kgs on discs bells and a wilwood midilight kit , however if it was not running slicks you had total overkill on braking to the point i would run much softer pads on 048's to slicks.

when i have been out on track with people who say that this brake or that is not up to it , normally the way they brake comes into the mix , as they are often braking in a road style which is gradually increased pressure , this increases heat build up and gives the issues .

on track you should have a braking point , hit the brakes at that point , come off them and get the turn in done , i do left foot to the apex alot , but havn't suffered fade issue even running heavy road cars on standard setups ,

Like most things in the car modifying world there are myths and lies , all for differing reasons , and very very rarely do people realize what a totally standard car is capable of .......

let a professional driver take you out on track in a standard car , and then think why when he laps it 5 or more seconds a lap faster than your modifies one ....... not saying peoples mods on anything are wrong , but seeing the daylight through the bulls**t is a revelation .

Harv, I've got to agree with you there.

 

[Sir_Dave]

387bhp Clio Sport

Ignoring all the guff about brakes. More info on this would be great.

 

[JackJack]

Dave what are the pros/cons of rc5s over ds2500 or vice versa in your opinion?

 

[Sir_Dave]

Dave what are the pros/cons of rc5s over ds2500 or vice versa in your opinion?

The RC5+'s take a lot more abuse, ie will not fade, ever. Whereas the DS2500's will eventually.
Both fine from cold, but the RC5's dont have anti-rattle springs so move around in the caliper quite a bit & irritate you after a while.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Well after reading all that. Does anyone know where replacement discs are available from

 

[...]

Harv, I've got to agree with you there.

unfortunately people don't have tuition and don't realise how they are driving , the other clasic is understeer , cars suffering from huge amounts , alot of that is down to driving style and understanding of chassis dynamics .....

FWD is different to rear wheel drive again how the car behaves , both can be bloody fast .

Its really really hard to get across on forums without sounding like a sanctimonious t**t , but its the truth ...... bog standard a clio is a bloody fine car , modified it isn't faster than a Porsche the Porsche just wasn't being driven well , etc etc etc etc .......... till the world ends !!


modding cars is a wonderful thing , and its nice to make them different , and yes they can be improved over stock ..... do they need to be , 9 times out of 10 selling up a stock car and buying a better faster stock car is the way forwards .

 

[Tony Hunter]

Of course, my standard road car is only just a little slower than the race car around Brands, but it couldn't do it for 40mins like the race car does.