I've got the cheap brembo pads in mine and I've not had brake fade yet, albeit at Blyton Park
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I've got the cheap brembo pads in mine and I've not had brake fade yet, albeit at Blyton Park
172 Track Car
I always end up cooking brakes. Currently running the following;
RC8 pads
Brembo HC
Castrol SRF
Homemade ducts and scoops
The ducts have been improved since I last went out so we'll see how it goes.
Next stages are an anemometer at the end of the duct for testing different designs and stainless steel backing shims. If that doesn't work I might try machining some Macor shims
RC8 pads
Brembo HC
Castrol SRF
Homemade ducts and scoops
The ducts have been improved since I last went out so we'll see how it goes.
Next stages are an anemometer at the end of the duct for testing different designs and stainless steel backing shims. If that doesn't work I might try machining some Macor shims
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Yeah, with the greatest respect, some of us have cars carrying more speed than others. As you saw at Llandow.
I was having real problems with mine at Oulton and it wasn't because I'm 'hero' braking. Plenty of people who came out with me will attest I'm not heavy on the brakes. They just aren't standing up to a day on track at the moment. I may have an underlying issue with mine, but I can't pin point it. It's largely a mute point as I'm hoping to up the power a reasonable amount so 4 pots won't be optional.
172 Track Car
I'd love it if someone here explained to me otherwise in scientific terms but I don't think hero braking or gentle braking will have much effect on brake temps. It should just be a function of energy absorbed which will be "force * distance" or "friction * effective radius" in this case. Roughly where friction is the coefficient of friction for the pad/disc interface multiplied by how hard you hit the pedal.
Certainly hero braking will make a bit of difference as engine braking and drag will be smaller in over all proportion. But I'd be tempted to simplify it to simply be change in kinetic energy between end of straight (EoS) and apex speed (assuming apex speed is minimum which it rarely is).
If one car has an EoS speed of 100mph and an apex speed of 65 it will be pumping considerably more energy into its brakes than a car with an EoS speed of 95 and an apex speed of 60.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
I meant braking at the last minute everywhere, standing on the brakes, being out for lap upon lap and then not letting them cool. That is my non-technical definition of Hero braking 
172 Track Car
I meant braking at the last minute everywhere, standing on the brakes, being out for lap upon lap and then not letting them cool. That is my non-technical definition of Hero braking
The last minute and standing on them shouldn't make a difference unless I'm missing something? Just the change in your cars energy. If it only takes you a second to go from 90 to 60 you've not put any more energy into your brakes than someone you took 2 seconds to go from 90 to 60
George@RTR_Parts
ClioSport Trader
Spot on, I try tell everyone who gets Ferodo Racing DS2500/3000 etc that they need filing so they are not wedged in tight
I only supply the larger pads as better value for money as come slightly thicker and have more surface area but they do need filing when fitting
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Thing is, the first set of DS2500s at Llandow had been in sometime....
They are a great set up, I think it's more the cooling I have an issue with, so going to run some better ducting to begin with.
They are a great set up, I think it's more the cooling I have an issue with, so going to run some better ducting to begin with.
George@RTR_Parts
ClioSport Trader
Some decent ducting/airflow helps a lot with keeping the brake temps in check Oli
Simple, cheap and effective mate
Simple, cheap and effective mate
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Personally, i think you are better off just removing everything (i.e. fogs/arch liners) - having air flowing over everything is much better than directed through some poncy 3" pipe imho. Unless of course its designed using CAD & a wind tunnel because Racecar, which it wont be lol.
DS2500's are good for fast road, but they will fade on track given enough abuse. Mine smoked alot in the saxo, & that wasnt exactly heavy.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
172 RaceCar, VW-T5
I know how much of a bad reputation they have on here, but I really couldn't fault the EBC BlueStuff pads I had in the race car at Llandow, no fade, excellent feel and they stopped the car very well.
Prior to these I was running pf97's and to be honest, I haven't lost any braking ability... If anything, I am actually better on the brakes now (and much later) as these have so much more feel.
Price wise, they are also much cheaper than other performance pads so I would highly recommend them to anyone.
Prior to these I was running pf97's and to be honest, I haven't lost any braking ability... If anything, I am actually better on the brakes now (and much later) as these have so much more feel.
Price wise, they are also much cheaper than other performance pads so I would highly recommend them to anyone.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
I have removed everything @Sir_Dave
You simply need better pads then Cubster, RC5+ or their equivalent will solve your problem. 4 Pots would improve things further, but only if you went for a larger disc, & then there is the additional expense compared to the standard setup. Not sure what tyres you are running, but more grip = improved braking performance as well remember.
Have you tried the Yellow Stuff?
172 RaceCar, VW-T5
I haven't, speaking with Jay & Tony from Burpspeed, I went straight for the bluestuff as I was told yellow seemed to suffer from fade later into sessions.
172 Track Car
What makes you say that?
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Having tried both
Do a few laps with pipes from fog lights through holes in arch liner.
Do a few laps with everything ripped out.
172 Track Car
Having tried both
Do a few laps with pipes from fog lights through holes in arch liner.
Do a few laps with everything ripped out.
Any pics? I desperately cooked them with everything ripped out. It's better now with ducts but still not where I want it.
Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Pics of what lol. I just removed the fog lights & the arch liners, then put them in the bin
Seriously, if you're cooking RC8's (a pretty hardcore pad iirc) it might be an issue with your braking style?
Advikaz
ClioSport Club Member
Pics of what lol. I just removed the fog lights & the arch liners, then put them in the bin
Seriously, if you're cooking RC8's (a pretty hardcore pad iirc) it might be an issue with your braking style?
One of the most common things (ex race instructor) - Still do a bit.
172 Track Car
Pics of the ducts that didn't work for you, I think I'm capable of picturing what no arch liners and no fog lights looks like
I've had a fair bit of tuition and he wasn't too concerned with my braking, not that I mean to sound high and mighty? I don't left foot brake the clio so I don't drag the brake while on the throttle at the same time. If you want I could post you a video of my driving but I doubt it will be of any use...
As for braking style please explain what you mean and how it translates to increased braking temperatures.
Advikaz
ClioSport Club Member
I'm happy to have a look over the vid mate.
I can & have cooked brakes in less than three laps in an m3, so it's easily done haha.
Good ducting with good lines/fluid, pads & discs should help a lot.
Some billy's i've been in the crate with love to hold the brakes on, what I teach is to brake as hard as you can for as short time possible (most efficient) without locking up. This style however is naturally hard on discs but reduces fade.
But some people love the brakes it's like a safety/comfort thing lol.
Vergers has a good vid - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cig06FhiQmE
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Sir_Dave
ClioSport Trader
Brake hard & late, helps with weight transfer as well (but im sure you know this) dont spend 5 minutes grazing the pedal before the corner. Ducting wise, this from the fog light to the arch liner - not massively technological
Can always spot an instructor when they use that term lol.
My old housemate at uni taught at Bedford back in the early 00's, so i always giggle when i hear it.
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PH2 172
I was amazed how good they are for £20.I think the secret is you have to bed them in correctly.After 6 laps they smelt overworked,so I came in to let them cool.After that they were no trouble at all for lap after lap.
I`m not sure about sintered pads on iron discs,as if it was a good combination,EBC would just line everything with their brilliant HH motorcycle compound.(motorcycles mainly have stainless steel discs}
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
I think I have an underlying issue, as I've never baked DS2500s before, even on a full day at Bedford with 4 people driving it. Cooked the fluid before the pads.
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172cup
I run carbotech exp8s with standard discs and superblue fluid. Set-up hasn't ever given up but I feel the pads have more to give, therefore going to change the discs. At the same time I ll be upping the fluid to motul 600 or 660. In my opinion and with my car, since I changed tyres to ado8s I think the heat they give off has had an effect on the fluid and disc temps - I think. To me it nearly feels right but not quite!
Mine were fine before I removed the ABS. That's the only change I've made to the braking system.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Thats interesting, because that is exactly the same as me! Removed the ABS when I did the engine swap. Mmmm.
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NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Now that is really intriguing!! You running the compensator valve? The rear brakes on
mine are really strong for a cup.
My rear brakes are stronger than they were due to the inline restrictor setup but it feels good. The braking system as a whole feels better without ABS. I guess the extra effort before the ABS kicks in means the brakes are worked harder.
I'll be fitting the Brembo 4 pots with RC5+ pads in the next couple of weeks and then a track day in about a months time.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
I'm sure I've read somewhere that the cups had less servo assistance. Something to do with the pedal feel. I'll see if I can find out as it may of course be total bullshit.
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