Leeroy's Clio 182 Trophy 25/500

[leeroybrown]

I need to use my car everday, turbo is no good for me, cos it will just brake :-(

Dave I should have listen to you 2 years ago and bought a T.

Ride is firm and it jiggles my moobs about hahaha but christ its good fun.

Been on here since 2007 and still waiting for a spotted thread :-(

 

[leeroybrown]

Now all detailed

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...2-Trophy-***DETAILED***&highlight=clio+trophy

 

[leeroybrown]

Oh Hai leather and goodbye cloth seats

And another set of TPI wheels bolts that I had in the megane

Next steps are rear brake replacement, callipers painted, service and wheels refurb’d

 

[Jimbo_M]

Very nice mate

 

[roberto.]

The detail looks excellent, I need my RB doing badly!

 

[leeroybrown]

I can put you in contact with my mate if need's be buddy!

 

[Conlon]

I need mine doing! and some dents taking out.....

 

[leeroybrown]

I need mine doing! and some dents taking out.....

Get your finger out old son.

80 quids worth of Zaino gear and it’s shining like a s**t house on a frosty morning!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Whiteline makes the most difference on any Clio, including the trophy, trust me

If Mark Fish has now set the roll resistance to a point where Leeroylikes it then in order to add more rear end roll resistance with a whiteline ARB he is going to then have to go for softer springs on the back, or he will mess up the balance he now has.

So while it might have worked in a way that you like it, if his car has been properly setup with spring rates then any change to the ARB rate is going to undermine that.

 

[leeroybrown]

If Mark Fish has now set the roll resistance to a point where Leeroylikes it then in order to add more rear end roll resistance with a whiteline ARB he is going to then have to go for softer springs on the back, or he will mess up the balance he now has.

So while it might have worked in a way that you like it, if his car has been properly setup with spring rates then any change to the ARB rate is going to undermine that.

I really like the way it handles now, perfect for the road and when you want to give it some it still handles well - Compared to my H&R's i much prefer the Sachs Units.

If I wanted trackday setup- would just go back to 22 clicks on the front and a full turn on the rear Koni's

 

[Chip-mk1]

I really like the way it handles now, perfect for the road and when you want to give it some it still handles well - Compared to my H&R's i much prefer the Sachs Units.

If I wanted trackday setup- would just go back to 22 clicks on the front and a full turn on the rear Koni's

If you add a whiteline ARB then it will get more oversteery, so if you like the balance now then it would be a retrograde step.

People on this forum seem to get a bit of obsessed with the whiteline ARB without really understanding the implications of spring rates versus ARB rates a lot of the time I think, so while it might be a nice addition on one car, it doesnt mean it automatically is on another.

 

[leeroybrown]

If you add a whiteline ARB then it will get more oversteery, so if you like the balance now then it would be a retrograde step.

People on this forum seem to get a bit of obsessed with the whiteline ARB without really understanding the implications of spring rates versus ARB rates a lot of the time I think, so while it might be a nice addition on one car, it doesnt mean it automatically is on another.

Couldn't agree more - I am no track king - Fast road setup is much better for me - Its an everyday car at the end of the day

 

[Chip-mk1]

Couldn't agree more - I am no track king - Fast road setup is much better for me - Its an everyday car at the end of the day

Even on track though, if your car is right to begin with in terms of how you want the front/rear roll resistance bias and you add a different ARB, then it will be wrong afterwards by definition.
Hence when Porkie took a whiteline ARB down to Mark Fish, Mark said not to fit it.

Personally for a road car I would always choose a stiffer ARB and weaker springs generally speaking, but having driven Porkies car which Mark fish setup its quite amazing that it is still bearable on the road without needing a thicker ARB and whilst being amazing on track.

 

[leeroybrown]

Oh yes - Mine was rather stiff when I got the car - Was fine on the motorway, but soon as I got it back to the Northeast I hated.

Quick PM to Mark Fish - 15 clicks on the front - Half a turn on the rear - Oh hai awesome handling!

ARB does look good from the rear though

 

[Chris205]

My initial comment to leeroy was because I've owned many clios with different suspension set-ups and always found that the anti roll bar certainly increases grip. To get bad lift off oversteer you're either prevoking the car on the throttle or you're useless behind the wheel.

I've only ever got bad lift off oversteer with a rear anti roll bar when I had no choice but to lift off the throttle into a tight roundabout, which I admit I was entering way too quickly. A combination of going to fast and quite shocking rear tyres played there part in the lift off oversteer I received in return. However I never lost control of the car, a quick stab of the throttle and the back end was back in check.

My advice would be, dont knock it until you've tried it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

My initial comment to leeroy was because I've owned many clios with different suspension set-ups and always found that the anti roll bar certainly increases grip. To get bad lift off oversteer you're either prevoking the car on the throttle or you're useless behind the wheel.

You think that more ARB strength on the rear is increasing the overall amount of grip you have?

Here is me behind the wheel of a car getting 100mph+ oversteer in a clio by the way if you think im not used to it, lol

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/?action=view&current=IMG_0269.mp4
(look at the halfway point of the video)

A stiffer ARB would probably have been enough to have meant that I couldnt catch that and would now have a written off car, lol

I've only ever got bad lift off oversteer with a rear anti roll bar when I had no choice but to lift off the throttle into a tight roundabout, which I admit I was entering way too quickly. A combination of going to fast and quite shocking rear tyres played there part in the lift off oversteer I received in return. However I never lost control of the car, a quick stab of the throttle and the back end was back in check.

My advice would be, dont knock it until you've tried it.

If you would like to know a little bit about ARBs you could read this article I wrote a few years ago which covers some of the basics you are missing out on grasping with your "it will improve the grip on any clio" argument currently:

The problem is summed up by your last line TBH, you havent tried one on a car that was setup properly without one in the first place like leeroybrown's is

The standard issue mistake you are making that I see from lots of people just starting to learn about suspension is the "harder = more grip" one.
People drive a car thats too soft (ie most standard cars) and then when its made firmer it gets better so they just assume that the more firmer you keep making it the better it will get, but what happens is you hit a point which is optimum in terms of the roll resistance and then if you increase it further beyond that point it gets worse not better (its a bell curve basically).
So if where Leeroy is currently is the right amount of rear end roll resistance, then adding more will make it worse not better.

 

[Chris205]

If Mark Fish has now set the roll resistance to a point where Leeroylikes it then in order to add more rear end roll resistance with a whiteline ARB he is going to then have to go for softer springs on the back, or he will mess up the balance he now has.

So while it might have worked in a way that you like it, if his car has been properly setup with spring rates then any change to the ARB rate is going to undermine that.

You think that more ARB strength on the rear is increasing the overall amount of grip you have?

Here is me behind the wheel of a car getting 100mph+ oversteer in a clio by the way if you think im not used to it, lol

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/?action=view&current=IMG_0269.mp4
(look at the halfway point of the video)

A stiffer ARB would probably have been enough to have meant that I couldnt catch that and would now have a written off car, lol





If you would like to know a little bit about ARBs you could read this article I wrote a few years ago which covers some of the basics you are missing out on grasping with your "it will improve the grip on any clio" argument currently:

The problem is summed up by your last line TBH, you havent tried one on a car that was setup properly without one in the first place like leeroybrown's is








The standard issue mistake you are making that I see from lots of people just starting to learn about suspension is the "harder = more grip" one.
People drive a car thats too soft (ie most standard cars) and then when its made firmer it gets better so they just assume that the more firmer you keep making it the better it will get, but what happens is you hit a point which is optimum in terms of the roll resistance and then if you increase it further beyond that point it gets worse not better (its a bell curve basically).
So if where Leeroy is currently is the right amount of rear end roll resistance, then adding more will make it worse not better.

Chip as I understand it, the clio was not fitted with a RARB as standard, when fitting one to my own cars I've seen a big improvement in turn-in, corner stability and improved speed due to the stability of the clio.

I'm not wanting to go into the technicalities of a fart, I just recommended a friend a product which I've found to help a lot on a clio.


As for your own situation, had the bushes in your steering not been fucked, I'm sure your car wouldnt of had the savage ammount of oversteer you received in the first place. At the end of the day mate, plenty of people have fitted them and been impressed with the results, if you're not convinced then get yourself one and see for yourself. Not every car responds in the same way to the same modifications, as your article above suggests.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip as I understand it, the clio was not fitted with a RARB as standard, when fitting one to my own cars I've seen a big improvement in turn-in, corner stability and improved speed due to the stability of the clio.

A minute ago you said it "increased grip", without even quantifying which end's grip you feel it improved?
And now you are quoting every strapline ever written on a suspension advert in max power magazine at me, lol

I'm not wanting to go into the technicalities of a fart, I just recommended a friend a product which I've found to help a lot on a clio.

But you arent understanding that his car has been setup properly without one!

As for your own situation, had the bushes in your steering not been f**ked, I'm sure your car wouldnt of had the savage ammount of oversteer you received in the first place. At the end of the day mate, plenty of people have fitted them and been impressed with the results, if you're not convinced then get yourself one and see for yourself. Not every car responds in the same way to the same modifications, as your article above suggests.

You are STILL totally missing the point mate, Mark Fish has set this guys car up to have the CORRECT amount of rear end roll resistance from NOT having an ARB but relying on the spring strength to do so instead.
So if he (with his expertly setup spring rates) were to now add an ARB to the rear he will be messing up that balance that he has just paid an expert in his field to set up for him.

Whether or not you liked them on a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUSPENSION SETUP WITH NOTHING IN COMMON WITH HIS IN TERMS OF ITS FRONT-REAR ROLL RESISTANCE BIAS has absolutely no bearing on if it will work for him or not.

As it happens I plan to add an ARB to one of my clios (as it happens I dont need to go and get one myself as I already have got a whiteline one to drop off that Ive just sold because want to use a proper bladed one not a pikey one like that) in the near future, so I am not against uprated ARB's like you seem to think I am, I am just against this "one size fits all" advice I keep seeing given out on this forum that a whiteline will improve any clio, thats just not true at all unless you make sure that you adjust the spring rates to suit.

So in the case of leeroy for example, if he fits softer rear springs and then adds an ARB (whiteline if he is on a budget would be fine but not what I would personally use) he will end up with the same roll resistance he has now, but with slightly better comfort on the road, so in that context it would be quite good, but just randomly bolting one on is going to make his car worse as a result not better.

 

[leeroybrown]

I go for lunch and come back to this little online ARB chat ha

Chris I appreciate the comments – but you were running the Eibach springs which are totally a different spring rate to my MF springs – Despite what people may say, they are not the same as the sportlines lol – If Sir_Dave hears you say this he will burst into flames – A rumour I think once started by Matt Willis if am right.

It’s perfect the way it is now – Mark does seem to know his s**t – After all Mark does track prepares Clio cups – If am honest if I go back to the original settings when I first bought the car ( 22 clicks on front – ¾ quarter turn on the rear) it would make it some little handling beast on track. The difference is I drive on normal roads every single day and I need a decent balance between ride quality and superior handling. At the minute I have that sweet spot – Seriously I been lucky enough to drive some awesome cars over the last 11 – 12 years –From GT3 RS’s, F430, Lotus Carlton – Even an RS500 – At the trophy is my far the best thing I have ever driven for absolute fun – In my eyes there are only 2 things that come close to it, they are an FRP and Lotus Exige Cup.

I do get what you’re saying Chris – But am knocking on 30 next year – The days of hard handling are gone for me lol

Chip - Nice little read

 

[Chris205]

I tell you what mate, you can give mine a try and tell me what you think. Stevo.c has the same set up as you with a whiteline RARB, ask him what he thinks of it.

 

[leeroybrown]

I am happy with the way it is now pal - I am no urge what so ever to add anything to it.

Maybe a nice sounding BTB but thats it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I tell you what mate, you can give mine a try and tell me what you think. Stevo.c has the same set up as you with a whiteline RARB, ask him what he thinks of it.

Which bit of me currently having one (although Ive just sold it as it happens so wont have for long) didnt you get if you think I need to come to county durham to try yours? lol

I quite like them on a set of eibachs on a low power car, its nice for the twisty stuff if the rear end is a bit lively, especially on a car that is slower to begin with so less likely to be sideways at big speeds, you seem to be acting like I am "anti whiteline arb" and im not, Im just saying if your car has been professionally setup in a way designed to work without adding a whiteline like leeroy has, then doing so is going to mess up the balance.

 

[leeroybrown]

Which bit of me currently having one (although Ive just sold it as it happens so wont have for long) didnt you get if you think I need to come to county durham to try yours? lol

I quite like them on a set of eibachs on a low power car, its nice for the twisty stuff if the rear end is a bit lively, especially on a car that is slower to begin with so less likely to be sideways at big speeds, you seem to be acting like I am "anti whiteline arb" and im not, Im just saying if your car has been professionally setup in a way designed to work without adding a whiteline like leeroy has, then doing so is going to mess up the balance.

I think he was refering it to me pal not you.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I think he was refering it to me pal not you.

Ah, yeah that would make sense, lol

FACEPALM

lol


Although it woudlnt change the fact that it is irrelevant to how it would work on your car of course, only way to know that would be to fit it!

 

[leeroybrown]

Ah, yeah that would make sense, lol

FACEPALM

lol

Chris - 1
Chip - 1

Even Stevens lol

 

[Chris205]

I think its down to personal preference lets say I know the technical side of it shouts that it may be too stiff on the rear, however I'm willing to fit mine to leeroy's trophy and let him take it for a good thrash to see if it improves. I only ask this as it's looking more and more likely I'll be going for the same set up as leeroy in the near future so would like to hear his thoughts with the ARB fitted

 

[mitch1503]

whiteline ARB are over rated in my eyes i used to like it when i had 1 fitted but as soon as i removed it and took the cup for a spin i knew NO arb was the way 4 me.. the car did feel more stable on some back lanes with the arb fitted where as others felt better without it..

 

[Chip-mk1]

The "feel" on a car is a rubbish way to decide on what works best TBH, it will nearly always lead to you end up with suspension too fim if you just go by feel, as turn in on really hard suspension always feels epic, but it often results in less outright grip at the apex as a result.

 

[leeroybrown]

Well MOT time and the car failed due to a leaky rear back box, standard exhaust has lasted 7 year which I dont think is to bad!

Few options to choose from

1.) Miltek – Problems with wields and the pipes cracking – Sound good though
2.) Scorpion RS 192 – pig to fit, lots of complaints
3.) Janspeed – Cheap and cheerful
4.) BTB – One I wanted but nobody is selling at the min and if they are they want silly money
5.) Yozza – I don’t want my eyes to bleed
6.) Ktec racing - I don’t want my eyes to bleed
7.) BTM Performance - Still in development

So finally decided on a Piper sytem – This will be my 4th exhaust system I have bought from Piper over the years and the quality/sound is awesome.

The Piper weighs 15.8 kg and the standard exhaust was 22.6 so that’s a very healthy saving of 6.8 kg's .

A little video too

http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...8072012141.mp4

P.S I nicked the photos from Jimbo and the vid off here as the exhaut isn’t here till Thursday J

 

[Cw Tuning.]

very jelous

 

[leeroybrown]

 

[Chris205]

epic picture!!!

 

[Conlon]

What you doing with your old exhaust lee?

 

[Sir_Dave]

epic picture!!!

Of him on the phone lol.

 

[leeroybrown]

What you doing with your old exhaust lee?

Its buggered Nikki son, Shaun got the tail pipes though lol

Of him on the phone lol.

Shhs Dave, its me scratching my heeed!

On the plus side I have lots of updates to follow this week

 

[leeroybrown]

Well it's been a while since I had a proper update so here it goes.

New exhaust fitted

Hangers were totally gone so replaced them with the gen 2 ones. Still a crap design.

On my way to work this happened!

Alternator was dead, so it spend 2 days in the garage while they sourced parts.

Was given this as a courtesy car (its rocks)

Also fitted brand new rear Mintex disc's and pads ( pics to come once the brakes are painted.

Replaced leaky PAS switch

Bought some brand new screws to replace some of the rusty ones that hold the archs and side skirts in

Also popped the wheels in to be refurb'd and was given

Clio's aint meant for 17s!

Anyway back from being refurb'd

Clean pics and more updates to come over the next week

Sneaky Recaro pic

 

[leeroybrown]

All nice and clean

 

[Stefan.]

lovely!!!

 

[leeroybrown]

Cheers buddy!

 

[Hixle]

Wheels look spot on mate. Love it.