MarkCup's BMW M140i

[Martin.]

Look forward to seeing some graphs mark, and how it treats you.

Do you have a warranty or are you not bothering?

 

[Rob]

I really like it and I think it's a good choice, however, I can't help but feel you've moved from a flagship car to a fast "normal" car. Were you not tempted more by something with a proper badge? ?

 

[David Stuart]

SRR results yesterday are 356.8 bhp and 396 lbft or 537 NM.

Torque!

View attachment 1393393

Is this standard or with mods?


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[davo172]

I really like it and I think it's a good choice, however, I can't help but feel you've moved from a flagship car to a fast "normal" car. Were you not tempted more by something with a proper badge? ?

Ooòooo controversial!!!!??

 

[Gouldy]

Not sure if serious?!

I've been shamelessly wh0ring myself on here for well over a decade!

Honestly, deadly serious. I've no idea why but I never clicked that was your you tube channel lol

 

[Al_G]

I really like it and I think it's a good choice, however, I can't help but feel you've moved from a flagship car to a fast "normal" car. Were you not tempted more by something with a proper badge? [emoji15]

I can’t help but agree with this. It’s like owning a Master System during the Megadrive days lol.

I’d love one though, 5 door though to justify not getting the M2.

Mark - given the choice (taking reliability out of the question) which is the more enjoyable, better car?

 

[Cookie]

And a LSD, then you are nearing used M2 prices. I known which I would rather own. Btw this isn’t a dig at the M140i, I really rate them tbh.

Good power/ torque figures Mark!

I agree. M cars are generally always more than the sum of their parts too

 

[Darren S]

@MarkCup - was it tricky finding a manual one over the flappy-paddle version?

 

[cat171]

And a LSD, then you are nearing used M2 prices. I known which I would rather own. Btw this isn’t a dig at the M140i, I really rate them tbh.

Good power/ torque figures Mark!

Nah, not unless those bits are going to cost about ten grand!!

 

[Sir_Dave]

Were you not tempted more by something with a proper badge? ?

I did tell @MarkCup to try the e90 M3 that James Paul also had in stock, but he likes "boost" too much these days!

They even had one the same spec as my old one, so he'd still have bought a black car with red leather ?

 

[MarkCup]

That torque is crazy I have problem putting down 320 LB/FT I know the M140I is RWD but I take it you need throttle control to get traction and stop the wheels spinning .

Surprisingly no! It must be the fat back tires...unless the roads have a really bad surface it mostly stays fully hooked up in the dry through 2nd gear. That's in a straight line, though. Introducing a single MM of steering input changes everything LOL

Look forward to seeing some graphs mark, and how it treats you.

Do you have a warranty or are you not bothering?

I have the balance of the original factory warranty until March 2020.

Is this standard or with mods?


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100% standard.

@MarkCup - was it tricky finding a manual one over the flappy-paddle version?

If you're not bothered about the car you end up with, not really, at any given time there's 25 or so, 2017 and onwards, on Autotrader. Of those, most have zero options fitted and black leather, too many miles, or too much moolah needed. The few nice manuals are out there...but where I think I lucked out here was finding the leather, options, and a willing dealer, within range, who'd take my RS as a full exchange.

 

[Darren S]

Sounds like you landed well with that spec and circumstance, too? I'd find it difficult to let go of manual at the minute - I still like the mechanical involvement of it.

Whenever I drive an auto/semi-auto - the novelty of stop & go is great initially. But I quickly get bored with it. For short term ownership - it wouldn't bother me really. But for something over multiple years - I think I'd even pay a bit extra to go with the cog-stick and a third pedal.

 

[Fletcher]

Nah, not unless those bits are going to cost about ten grand!!

IIRC the M140i was valued/sold at 27k, you can pick up M2 for around 32k now (great time to buy atm) so 5k extra, a new LSD fitted is around £2,700, so that leaves around £2,300 without any suspension upgrades etc.

 

[cat171]

The cheapest M140i's on PH are around the £20k mark. The cheapest M2 is £31.5k

 

[Christopher]

Strong figures! Agreed on the traction comments, mine's fine too unless it's damp/wet. 265 Pilots see to that.

That's with 450lbft. It'll be a bit of a challenge with 560lbft after the map.

 

[mr bognor]

Ok 265 would help on that matter then but still very impressive getting that torque to the ground via 2WD

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Ok 265 would help on that matter then but still very impressive getting that torque to the ground via 2WD

It’s also easy to overlook the BMW damping (which even on normal cars tends to be good) vs the Fiesta which is reknown for being stiff. Fine with 200hp but an extra 50% extra I can see why you’d have problems!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

IIRC the M140i was valued/sold at 27k, you can pick up M2 for around 32k now (great time to buy atm) so 5k extra, a new LSD fitted is around £2,700, so that leaves around £2,300 without any suspension upgrades etc.

For sure, but a 17 plate (with 2 years warranty) and the decent options.

Totally get what you’re saying but I don’t see the M2 as superior to the M140i in “every” way. Certainly when you involve the fact it’s a daily for Mark.

 

[mr bognor]

TBF it does a dam good job but if the road is rutted or damp or you are an oaf with the throttle then it does have trouble even with a Quaife LSD so it is impressive that the M140i can put all of that to the ground .

It’s also easy to overlook the BMW damping (which even on normal cars tends to be good) vs the Fiesta which is reknown for being stiff. Fine with 200hp but an extra 50% extra I can see why you’d have problems!

 

[David Stuart]

I came out a fiesta st with a stage 1 remap. 225bhp and just spun its wheels up in anything like a damp road.

Bought my M140i a few months ago and it’s much better with traction.

Like others have said a great daily as well. My wife would kill me if I got another 3 door car.

Nice to know what a standard car can do. I’ve heard people say they are quoted quite low at 340bhp. Here is mine after my mate gave it its welcome to the world clean.

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[Jon.L]

IIRC the M140i was valued/sold at 27k, you can pick up M2 for around 32k now (great time to buy atm) so 5k extra, a new LSD fitted is around £2,700, so that leaves around £2,300 without any suspension upgrades etc.

Surely its a very bad time to buy an m2? Word is the m2 comp is a much better car, therefore id expect m2 values to fall a fair bit over the next few months as soon as the comps start to become more available on the second hand market...

If i was in the market id be holding out for a comp based on the seats alone.

 

[Cookson]

I watched one your video on the M140. My lord, don't you sit close to that steering wheel ?

 

[JB21]

@MarkCup how you finding heel and toe shifts with that full/long (not sure the term) throttle pedal?

 

[Al_G]

I’m disappointed there’s no new vids!

 

[MarkCup]

@MarkCup how you finding heel and toe shifts with that full/long (not sure the term) throttle pedal?

The floor hinged pedal has taken a different approach to just using the throttle generally. When heel toeing it works fine though.

I’m disappointed there’s no new vids!

Filmed this morning, editing is currently WIP. I should have it uploaded tomorrow.

 

[MarkCup]

Here we go then, the Goodwood Hot-Hatch Breakfast Club, a dyno run, and some random musings on how this thing is very similar to my Clio 172 Cup...

 

[charltjr]

Fair play. I’m not into all this tribal bull with cars either, especially in such a crowded and competitive part of the market it comes down to what your own experience leads you to prefer at that point.

Looking forward to seeing how the not-an-Mcar-honest works out for you.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

If no one had told you, would you really have noticed the pedals are offset?

Also the gear change, do you really find it vague? Yours reminded me of an E46 M3, mainly because most other fast BMWs I’ve been in are auto, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Notchy is nice!! Genuinely can’t imagine getting the wrong gear, and it’s not bolt action like an NA MX5, but there’s nothing wrong with it (unlike an NA MX5 where you could easily get reverse instead of 4th)

 

[MarkCup]

Fair play. I’m not into all this tribal bull with cars either, especially in such a crowded and competitive part of the market it comes down to what your own experience leads you to prefer at that point.

Looking forward to seeing how the not-an-Mcar-honest works out for you.

This has confused the f*** out of a lot of people, RS to non-M car just doesn't compute...especially when I say that it's just as enjoyable to drive as the RS ?

If no one had told you, would you really have noticed the pedals are offset?

Also the gear change, do you really find it vague? Yours reminded me of an E46 M3, mainly because most other fast BMWs I’ve been in are auto, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Notchy is nice!! Genuinely can’t imagine getting the wrong gear, and it’s not bolt action like an NA MX5, but there’s nothing wrong with it (unlike an NA MX5 where you could easily get reverse instead of 4th)

I would, yes! First time I depressed the clutch my foot stopped dead on the footrest, there was so little of it actually in contact with the pedal. Even now I'm constantly rethinking my foot positioning. I'm sure it'll all fall into place eventually.

As for the shift, it's acceptable but I'd have no confidence in it if I ever tried to rush a shift! Vague? Based on the amount of movement once it's in gear, yep...while in 3rd it almost moves across to the 1st and 5th positions!

It's not tight and precise like the RS was, and it's not as slick when moving between gears. In the RS shifting was actually an enjoyable experience, I can't say that about the 140.

It's not unpleasant...but it could be so much better.

 

[Cookie]

BMW manuals are shite tbh. There's a reason there are so many more auto box ones available despite the higher purchase price

 

[David Stuart]

And focus RS and your fiesta st for that matter have excellent manual gearboxes.


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[davo172]

This has confused the f*** out of a lot of people, RS to non-M car just doesn't compute...especially when I say that it's just as enjoyable to drive as the RS ?



I would, yes! First time I depressed the clutch my foot stopped dead on the footrest, there was so little of it actually in contact with the pedal. Even now I'm constantly rethinking my foot positioning. I'm sure it'll all fall into place eventually.

As for the shift, it's acceptable but I'd have no confidence in it if I ever tried to rush a shift! Vague? Based on the amount of movement once it's in gear, yep...while in 3rd it almost moves across to the 1st and 5th positions!

It's not tight and precise like the RS was, and it's not as slick when moving between gears. In the RS shifting was actually an enjoyable experience, I can't say that about the 140.

It's not unpleasant...but it could be so much better.

So how does the straight line performance compare to the RS Mark?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

This has confused the f*** out of a lot of people, RS to non-M car just doesn't compute...especially when I say that it's just as enjoyable to drive as the RS ?



I would, yes! First time I depressed the clutch my foot stopped dead on the footrest, there was so little of it actually in contact with the pedal. Even now I'm constantly rethinking my foot positioning. I'm sure it'll all fall into place eventually.

As for the shift, it's acceptable but I'd have no confidence in it if I ever tried to rush a shift! Vague? Based on the amount of movement once it's in gear, yep...while in 3rd it almost moves across to the 1st and 5th positions!

It's not tight and precise like the RS was, and it's not as slick when moving between gears. In the RS shifting was actually an enjoyable experience, I can't say that about the 140.

It's not unpleasant...but it could be so much better.

I mean. It’s your opinion and your car, I just don’t get it! But then I found the Clio 172 box fine and people complain about that. If you use strict hand position discipline with shifting its a non-issue and you come across as a guy who’d have good disclipline so I guess I was just a bit surprised you found anything wrong with the shift. I certainly don’t remember the FRS being a special shift. And not having a floor hinged pedal makes it feel like a toy lol.

BMW manuals are shite tbh. There's a reason there are so many more auto box ones available despite the higher purchase price

Maaate. Stop the hate. Nowt wrong with a BMW manual box and never has been. Other than the CDV in their older normal cars.

So how does the straight line performance compare to the RS Mark?

Don’t need to get the stopwatch out to say it’ll blow the RS away in a straight line.

 

[davo172]

I mean. It’s your opinion and your car, I just don’t get it! But then I found the Clio 172 box fine and people complain about that. If you use strict hand position discipline with shifting its a non-issue and you come across as a guy who’d have good disclipline so I guess I was just a bit surprised you found anything wrong with the shift. I certainly don’t remember the FRS being a special shift. And not having a floor hinged pedal makes it feel like a toy lol.



Maaate. Stop the hate. Nowt wrong with a BMW manual box and never has been. Other than the CDV in their older normal cars.



Don’t need to get the stopwatch out to say it’ll blow the RS away in a straight line.

Thought that's what you'd say !??

 

[Christopher]

Yep. They're completely ballistic in a straight line.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Thought that's what you'd say !??

Haha. I don’t have to hold back on bumming them so much now I don’t own one ?‍♂️

 

[Cookie]

I mean. It’s your opinion and your car, I just don’t get it! But then I found the Clio 172 box fine and people complain about that. If you use strict hand position discipline with shifting its a non-issue and you come across as a guy who’d have good disclipline so I guess I was just a bit surprised you found anything wrong with the shift. I certainly don’t remember the FRS being a special shift. And not having a floor hinged pedal makes it feel like a toy lol.



Maaate. Stop the hate. Nowt wrong with a BMW manual box and never has been. Other than the CDV in their older normal cars.



Don’t need to get the stopwatch out to say it’ll blow the RS away in a straight line.

I've not driven an F80 manual, but have driven everything up to and including the E90 in a manual. Woeful compared to most things out of Japan tbh

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I've not driven an F80 manual, but have driven everything up to and including the E90 in a manual. Woeful compared to most things out of Japan tbh

It’s much the same as I remember the E46 and E90 being as far as I can tell. Which I personally don’t think is a bad thing.

 

[brisa4984]

Really enjoyed the intro!!

IMO. The engine is a peach but as a unit It’s a s**t drivers car. That shifter is totally w**k. It feels notchy and rubbery and slow agree with you here. The pedal placement is awful. They actually make me lean to the left and sit marginally off centre after a long drive. I hate it.

I don’t have a 140. I have a 116i but still.

 

[Sir_Dave]

From my understanding, and having driven/owned pretty much every BMW produced in the past 30 years, the manual BMW gearbox has felt the same since about 1983. Probably before then as well. That's just how it is. Floor hinged pedals are the correct choice btw, perfect for heel & toe! Anything else just feels weird now.