yes any conversion can be bodged. but any simpletone can swap an engine. the ecu doesnt even need to be changed for the f7p/r conversion to see a gain in power.
Will be horribly lean if you do that, not a good idea at all.
so because they have the same bore/stroke, the driving characteristics are very similar??
Because they have the same bore/stroke ratio and also the same rod ratio, it does indeed make them similar as piston speed is idential between the two engines, and that effects greatly where in the rev range power will end up, of course its not the b-all and end-all but it does mean that you are down to the combustion chamber shape and the ports being the only significant differences internally. So they arent going to drive night and day different on the same cams given similar external components for example (ie both on bodies with similar exhausts etc)
i think not.....in fact i fukkin know not. im comparing a f4r standard cam, around the 260 mark iirc. to a f7r fitted with 260ish cams, both with decat and cat back. the driving characteristics are completely diff. you arent allowing for the difference in head porting etc. the btm end isnt the whole of the engine you know.
I love the way you are just quoting duration of a cam and not even considering the valve acceleration rates or the lift, lol.
The thing that makes the F4R a little worse at the bottom end than the F7R (and there really isnt much in it anyway, we're only talking a dozen lbft anywhere realistically) is not the ports like you are saying, that does have an effect but far more of it is down to the standard inlet manifold, not anything internal to the engine.
Fit an RS2 and you can have a 150lbft of torque for the entire rev range from the F4R with no other changes, so it shows its nothing internal to the engine that gives them their unpleasant standard torque curve shape.
yes the meg is a little diff. to the williams f7r. and likewise the spider is diff to both. its simple enough to swap a head over either way. and as for the ecu lol.anyone decent can get good gains from the std ecu. it doesnt have to be standalone to get good gains. thats maybe your preference as you can map standalone but little else properly?? but then your into the realms of which standalone, the omex which any mupet can map, or ktecs effort which can be locked etc. i believe??? a good mapper will get good gains from all of the above, no matter whose ecu they are using. thats what they do. which is beyond me so i take it to a man who can.
Thats not the case at all, the standard ECU is stuck with only being capable of running speed/density based algorythms for controlling the fuelling, as such once you get into the realms of hot cams it cant cope properly, this is true of both the F4R and the F7R and is the reason that I would always recomend swapping to aftermarket from the beginning as then you arent going to hit a problem later on when you want to try and get decent power out of either engine as you can run a TPS based algorythm instead.
You are also stuck on a distributor and rotor arm setup if you are using the F7P management as the ECU isnt capable of running a coilpack, and if you ever want to swap to something that can you are then into the realms of having to swap the flywheel over from the renix 44-2-2 to a 172 flywheel as even the ecu's that can understand that nonsense flywheel layout cant do wasted spark on it unless you start adding a cam trigger as well as the layout doesnt allow the ecu to distinguish between cylinders.
Most mappers also cant map the renault F7P ECU's for the reason that they cant be bothered buying the equipment and messing around with it just for the sake of an antique that no sensible person would run on a decent spec engine anyway, its dead old technology, so unless you are doing it for a labour or love (like kj16v has for example) then it would be ludicrously expensive to the customer for you to waste all that time. The F4R though is a more modern ecu and at least can manage things like coilpack and a lot more mappers will bother with them as they dont have to mess around with emulators or chip changes to map them, they can just reflash the standard ecu.
So the only thing you got right really TBH mate, is the bit about it all being over your head, as clearly it is indeed.
so to sum up. you are still wrong in saying that an f4 conversion is easier and better than a similar specced f7r conversion.
I havent actually said exactly that, its easier mechanically speaking as no need to mix and match heads from different engines or change the cams, but like Ive said each has different pitfalls, some people dont want to be changing heads and cams around and would sooner just bolt an engine in and then pay someone to wire it and map it for them on aftermarket which is a good place to end up, its those people for whom the F4R makes so much more sense. Neither of the standard ECU's is any good longer term IMHO so both are best avoided on a bigger project.
will text you tomorrow x
