Mk1 Valver recomended Engine Upgrades

[AmirClio]

Ok.
I have a Mk1 valver. it has an induction kit an de-cated stainless exhaust.
what are the best engine mods?? and what sort of gains will i get from them?
i was thinkin of having the cylinder head gas flowed, ported and polished, chipped and possibly performance cams.

is this a good idea? what sort of gains will i get from these mods and are they worth it?

all input would be greatly appreciated
cheers
Amir16vClio

 

[MattyH16v]

I'm in a similar situation m8, with the same mods, debating what to do next. Was considering getting a willy lump put in, but am also interested what performance gains can be made from the 1.8 16v engine first.

 

[AmirClio]

well its an option i guess, seems like alot of hassle just for another 23bhp. which im sure you can get from doing the mods i listed?
that would be the easy way to get more power also, at least if you have some mods done its ur own if you no wot i mean!?
U have angel eyes on ur clio! niiiiiiiiice!

 

[MattyH16v]

Yes m8, put angel eyes in not long ago. I think the 2.0l willy lump would b a good improvemnt in torque, but as u said, u should b able to get some decent gains with modding the 1.8. There must b some peeps on here who would know what kind of gains can be made with what?

 

[AmirClio]

yeh i think your rite pal! ice jus put a valver lump in what used to be my 1.4rt! so much fun! quick great handling and what a noise!
hopefully people will notice the thread and post sum replies!
cheers mate!

 

[BenR]

With the modifications you listed, about 160+bhp is the attainable region without pushing things too far cam wise and making it run like a dog on the std idle control strategy.

 

[clio-16-valver]

well its an option i guess, seems like alot of hassle just for another 23bhp. which im sure you can get from doing the mods i listed?
that would be the easy way to get more power also, at least if you have some mods done its ur own if you no wot i mean!?
U have angel eyes on ur clio! niiiiiiiiice!

The williams engine has 150 bhp and the 16v has 137 which = 13 bhp more.

I would say de cat, exhaust, air filter in original box (or a good ik like the viper) uprated cams, new pulleys, 4 branch manifold, and maybe getting the head gas flowed.

 

[MattyH16v]

The williams engine has 150 bhp and the 16v has 137 which = 13 bhp more.

I would say de cat, exhaust, air filter in original box (or a good ik like the viper) uprated cams, new pulleys, 4 branch manifold, and maybe getting the head gas flowed.

How much would he be looking at for all of the above mentioned? Hill Power would be a good option would they not? I've just bought one of their i/k off ebay. Would this be an improvement over my current K&N or a standard o/e box?

 

[AmirClio]

My maths is shocking!
well thats a good start! as far as i know hill power and K-tec are the only places who do these things. luckily im not to far from Hill power. or does anybody know of anybody else who does this?
cheers
Amir

 

[MattyH16v]

I'd go for Hill Power m8, especially if ur havin anything major done and their close to where u live. I'm gonna take a trip up there at some point and c what they recommend.

 

[Ben j]

mine used to run 154bhp on different rolling roads. all it had was stainless exhaust plus de-cat. and a hillpower chip

 

[jay s]

imo i would'nt go spending money on the 1.8, its is a very good engine, ive had 2 ( 1st seemed loads better than the 2nd ) but the 2.0l is so much more than an extra 13 bhp imo, hell of a lot easier to drive fast not always ringing its neck and you see better gains when u mod it. you could probley pick up a 2.0l for the price off a set of cams for the 1.8... hillpower gets my thumbs up, done the work on mine and that gets a caneing most the time and been fine so far.. ( << my car on the hillpower rollers )

 

[u33db]

Listen to ben r.

Tuning the 1.8 is fooking expensive and is all or nothing - to get any sort of noticeable (usable) power gain you need to do everything at the same time...that means gasflowed head/cams/chip. Even then, it'll be no-where near as fast as a standard 2ltr!

Pay the money and get a 2ltr or 2ltr BE if you want vfm.

 

[Djw Dave]

yer starting with the F7R defo makes more sense the heads (megane) are better to begin with so more gains to be had from the other mods

there comes a point tho when your pissing into the wind with "fake" performance mods like air filters and de-cats, cams will add power, headwork will add power, an air filter wont, and is a complete waste of money seen as they can be topside of £200. imo the first step for proper tuning of these motors should be throttle bodies and mappable management, then take it from there. Theres little point spending £500+ on some mild cams that the standard management will be happy with when u can spend the same £500 and get much wilder cams at a later date which will provide more power but require mappable management

Im unsure what the exhaust manifolds are like on these engines but i'd imagine for cost reasons and mass production they're pretty shite. A properly designed 4-1 item would be about the only mod i'd see any point in doing on an otherwise stock engine

I do believe tho that if your going to do something, do it properly. At the end of the day by the time youve spent your money on air filters, mild cams and "chips" u'd be most of the way to buying some bodies and an ecu and the bodies will give more power.

 

[midge]

throttle bodie on a mk1 cost's £3k upwards, the best mod you can do to the 1.8 is get a 2.0 bottom end.

 

[AmirClio]

thanks for the input fellas! that has widend my vision if you like!

so 2ltr bottom end it is! will this just fit straight onto my valver cylinder head?

 

[u33db]

Yes but you'll need to get the matching starter and ECU as the 1.8 items won't go on/work with it too well.

 

[Djw Dave]

you can buy complete F7R 's for 400quid so whats the point trying to build one using 1800 parts

the f7r (megane especially) cylinder head is far better too

the throttle bodies cost in the region of 450 from jenvey, then u need management, emerald will skin you about 500, loom another few hundered or less if your prepared to make it yourself, few sensors will be around 100 then a map which dave walker will charge you 250-300 for., add a decent exhaust manifold for 300ish and the appropriate inlet manifold for 150ish and your sorted.

thats much less than 3k, but obviously if u walk into a renault tuning house and say heres the keys i want TB's its gonna cost you a lot more

 

[AmirClio]

you can buy complete F7R 's for 400quid so whats the point trying to build one using 1800 parts

the f7r (megane especially) cylinder head is far better too

the throttle bodies cost in the region of 450 from jenvey, then u need management, emerald will skin you about 500, loom another few hundered or less if your prepared to make it yourself, few sensors will be around 100 then a map which dave walker will charge you 250-300 for., add a decent exhaust manifold for 300ish and the appropriate inlet manifold for 150ish and your sorted.

thats much less than 3k, but obviously if u walk into a renault tuning house and say heres the keys i want TB's its gonna cost you a lot more

ha easy as that eh pal! would i b rite in sayin that the engine will jus drop in? or will i need f7r drive shafts and mounts or could i use the valver ones?

 

[AmirClio]

what are u running djw dave?

 

[edde]

2.0 bottom end either from the Megan of the age or the Williams is a direct fit. The 16V head fits both fine but isn't as good at making power as the Williams one due to smaller bits and bobs. The Mgean head has more potential for power but its an lot of work to get it to work with the normal ecu.
Gearboxs on the 1.8 and 2.0 are the same size etc the difference is the Williams is slightly longer ratios and is stronger JC5 vs JC3 so all the external dimentions are the same though. The Williams was given wider track suspension as well so if you want this is about £1k in parts including longer driveshafts etc.
Mounts are all the same though .8 or 2.0 the 2.0 block is "just" a 1.8 engine with a 1.9 diesel crank and bored out pistons along with some slight chnages to the external cooling and internal waterway (I belive).
Throttle bodies are the way to go but to make real power you need a new radiator and a cut slam panel. A bodge job won't for the money make as much power as the money spent on other stuff ie head work cams and a remap.

 

[MAXIBOY]

but the 1.9 diesel crank wont fit in the 1.8 block without a lot of mods as it catches the bottom of the bores

 

[midge]

f7r bottom will fit your 1.8 without any mods all you need is willy ecu, you can use the megane head although its alot of hassle, the 1.8 head is fine and better for porting, the williams head has slightly larger valves but not as good for porting

 

[MattyH16v]

So if I wanted to do a total williams engine coversion, i.e whole engine, what are the essentials that I would also have to put in the car, ecu etc?

 

[edde]

but the 1.9 diesel crank wont fit in the 1.8 block without a lot of mods as it catches the bottom of the bores

Yep sorry forgot that the 2.0 block is taller.

 

[edde]

So if I wanted to do a total williams engine coversion, i.e whole engine, what are the essentials that I would also have to put in the car, ecu etc?

Looms are very similar. Some valvers which run Williams bottom and heads are fine others need adjustaments the Williams looms are all the same though.
You'd need to be safe the Williams head, bottom end, starter motor, exhaust manifold (although most people use the 1.8 one as its better for top end power). You'll also need either a 2.0 remap chip (£50 for a cheap chip) or run a Williams ECU.

 

[BenR]

Yep sorry forgot that the 2.0 block is taller.

blocks have the same deck height, but the 2ltr crank wont spin in the 1.8's block.

 

[Martin]

1.8 manifold kills the top end on a 2.0 as it's designed to improve low down torque on the peaky 1.8. Also while a cheap chip will get your 1.8 ecu to work with the willy lump...a proper re-map circa 350 will get better gains...

 

[Djw Dave]

im currently building a B18FT volvo engine for my clio and will be aiming for around 200bhp from 15psi but the basic tuning principles applies everywhere

i dont know a lot of the specific details but imo fitting the complete williams engine would be the way forwards, if you think of the money (and time) involved in splitting your existing 1800 and fitting some 2.0 block to it, its probably less work to overcome any of the issues involved in fitting the 7r complete. If the megane head causes problems with the clio management then why not just run the megane management or better yet throw it all away and fit emerald or similar?

ive seen meggy f7r's sell on here and elsewhere for circa 400quid, but at the end of the day it all depends how much you want to spend and what u want from the motor, which u havent actually specified in this thread...

i cant see why people are trying to bodge things up using looms and ecu's from other engines? if you want to fit a cavalier/calibra's C20XE into a corsa you take the cavalier/calibra engine loom and ECU and plank the whole lot into the corsa, you dont piss around trying to make it run on the corsas engine loom with reprogrammed ecu's...

 

[Fred@BTM]

2.0 bottom end

 

[u33db]

Yes you can buy F7R's for 400quid (and far less) but thats a megane engine....to get them to work with clio management will require machining of the head to run the clio dizzy and a few other things. Bit of a pain in the arse considering if you just bolt the BE to a valver head and chip it you've effectivley got a willy engine.

Fair enough, if you're TB'ing the meg head is far superior and a better choice. I also totally agree with the comment about costs and renault tuning houses...you'll get ripped off. Just look at what the vaux peeps generally pay for similar work...

 

[AmirClio]

ok some interested oipnions!!! lol
if i put a willy bottom end on my valver top and run a williaims ecu will that run properly??
i would have thought sensors and cooling routes will be the same? will i need anything additional?
cheers

 

[AmirClio]

ok some interested oipnions!!! lol
if i put a willy bottom end on my valver top and run a williaims ecu will that run properly??
i would have thought sensors and cooling routes will be the same? will i need anything additional?

oh also aside from the williams part can i use a willaims exhaust manifold on my valver ive been informed i will gain a small amount oh bhp from it???????
cheers

 

[u33db]

Yes, williams or megane F7R BE bolted to your valver head with 2ltr ECU will run fine...thats the normal route and cheapest way of doing things.Don't both with the williams manifold...valver item is vastly superior.

 

[AmirClio]

ok fair play! so i'll stick with the valver manifold if its better obviously!! what are the tubular manifolds like? i.e from k-tec or bb tuning or supersprint?
any decent gains to be had?
cheers
Amir

 

[u33db]

They're good and you get power gains but most people seem to agree the std valver manifold is pretty damn good anyway...TBH i'd spend the 300-odd quid it costs for one on something else.

 

[dannyboy]

what sort of power will the above return?

 

[polty16v]

Don't suppose you would know where the engine numbers are stamped on volvo blocks? Thats for djw dave...

 

[Djw Dave]

shiney metal plate to the immedate right of the oil filter mounting point

plate is riveted on and has engine type and number embossed into it

 

[Smudger]

shiney metal plate to the immedate right of the oil filter mounting point

plate is riveted on and has engine type and number embossed into it

in exactly the same place as a 5 turbo lump