need advice on f7p 1.8 valver engine maintenance

[omrek]

Hey, got an R19 with the 1.8 valver, and there are some snags or doubts about its working order.

First, it gets hot really quick, its not over heating, but the front radiator gets hot within 5 minutes of driving or even less, i've never had a car to get that hot that quick

Second, it lacks of power under 4-5000 rpm, and after that comes the power but still not the 140 bhp it shoud have. 0-60 should be 8,2 second but now its about 11. which sensor might be off? diagnostics is near impossible for a car that old. ohh and i remembered, when i bought the car the fue pump stopped after 2-3 seconds when the ignition is on but not running, but now it never stops. maybe there's a problem with the fuel pressure regulator and thats why the pump doesnt stop?

And lastly oil pressure, gauge is never still, i hope its the sensor, not the pump, but i'm not entirely sure. after starting gauge needle is on the middle, than some time later it drops down down to a quater or even to the bottom. when it drops down to the bottom sometimes it goes back up to the quater mark, and than drops again, no matter the engine rpm. i suppose if the oil pump is bad, than the pressure should rise with the engine rpm. if it didn't have oil pressure it woul have already stalled because i have driven it for 600 miles. does it have an oil pressure swith besides the sensor? how could i be sure if i have oil pressure or not

 

[MartinR]

First off it won't have 140 bhp i bet it only runs around 120-125bhp if you are lucky.

As for it heating up quick i would check that there is a thermostat in place. Could even be running a low temp thermostat or have an air lock.

You would know about it if there was no oil pressure plus the gauges have a mind of their own and its french

 

[omrek]

First off it won't have 140 bhp i bet it only runs around 120-125bhp if you are lucky.

As for it heating up quick i would check that there is a thermostat in place. Could even be running a low temp thermostat or have an air lock.

You would know about it if there was no oil pressure plus the gauges have a mind of their own and its french

It feels at the moment that it only has a 100 bhp . i checked the fuel pressure and as it turns out, fuel pressure regulator is stuck and no petrol is getting back to the tank. so this means the fuel pressure is too high and mixture is too rich, i think that may cause the poor performance, i'll replace that and see what it does than. i think the thermostat is OK, because the radiotor gets really hot, and even the electric fan starts to prove the point. this heat may also be cause by the exessive fuel going thro the engine.

but is there a oil pressure swich and a light in the dash to count on? as it seems i cant trust the gauge

 

[omrek]

still need advice on the oil pressure

 

[Chip-mk1]

By the time the oil pressure light comes on its already game over.

 

[omrek]

By the time the oil pressure light comes on its already game over.

thats not good to hear:S

 

[Chip-mk1]

thats not good to hear:S

Same on any car, lights are normally single figure psi to go out. By the time that happens under load, your engine will be badly damaged already generally speaking.

 

[Russ_16v]

Ignore the pressure gauge, there is a sensor for it, which is mounted on the back of the block on the drivers side of the car, by the exhaust manifold, but to be honest i doubt you would get it right without renewing the whole system from gauge to wiring - iv gone through 2 switches and 2 gauges in mine, and both read differently from each other

 

[omrek]

Same on any car, lights are normally single figure psi to go out. By the time that happens under load, your engine will be badly damaged already generally speaking.

but there should be some room for error, because otherwise it's completely useless when it is warning me when its too late. but as i understand there is a secondary switch to warn me about the low oil pressure? besides the sensor for the gauge?

 

[Chip-mk1]

The light tells you when it's too late. That's just life mate. Sorry.

 

[omrek]

Ignore the pressure gauge, there is a sensor for it, which is mounted on the back of the block on the drivers side of the car, by the exhaust manifold, but to be honest i doubt you would get it right without renewing the whole system from gauge to wiring - iv gone through 2 switches and 2 gauges in mine, and both read differently from each other

ok than its pointless to repair it when it's still unreliable. thanks for your post, now i know someone has been thro that.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just fit an aftermarket gauge if you want to know the oil pressure.

 

[omrek]

Just fit an aftermarket gauge if you want to know the oil pressure.

i dont care about the gauge, i just want to be sure about having oil pressure

 

[Chip-mk1]

i dont care about the gauge, i just want to be sure about having oil pressure

The way to know that is fit a gauge.
Or get an aftermarket switch with a higher pressure but it will be always lit up for the first couple of thousand rpm and only go out once you rev it. If you fit one that goes out on idle then by definition it's useless at high rpm.

 

[omrek]

The way to know that is fit a gauge.
Or get an aftermarket switch with a higher pressure but it will be always lit up for the first couple of thousand rpm and only go out once you rev it. If you fit one that goes out on idle then by definition it's useless at high rpm.

something doesnt add up, oil pressure should always be the same, no matter idling or hi revs, there's a oil pressure regulator with a spring and a ball right next to the pump. if the pressure raises with engine rpm's it's surely a pump failure, because it cannot make pressure on idling. that i know fore sure, i studied mechanics for 3,5 years and worked at a garage the same time. i remember i raised the oil pressure on a Ford Probe 2,5 v6 engine, by adding washers to raise the tention of the spring.

 

[Russ_16v]

With respect mate, oil pressure will not always be the same - it will rise and drop with engine revs (As oil pump is driven off the engine) and also many things can change oil pressure from ambient temperature down to what viscosity oil you use

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mechanic = knows how to remove and refit parts. Often knows little about how anything actually works

Lol

Oil pressure rises with rpm.
In the case of most 4 cylinder Renault engines ime you'll see about 1 bar to 1.5 bar per 1000rpm until you hit the relief pressure then it will stay level until rpm gets so high it cavitates and pressure drops rapidly.

The pressure relief valve is there purely to stop excess pressure, it can't raise the pressure at idle on a hot engine as even with the valve shut you'll only see about 20psi or so.

Like I keep saying, fit a gauge if you want to see if your pressure is correct for whatever rpm you are doing as a switch can't tell you that!

 

[mikekean]

1.8 16v's dont make bugger all power under 4-5k anyway so doubt there isnt anything wrong with your engine.

 

[omrek]

Mechanic = knows how to remove and refit parts. Often knows little about how anything actually works

Lol

Oil pressure rises with rpm.
In the case of most 4 cylinder Renault engines ime you'll see about 1 bar to 1.5 bar per 1000rpm until you hit the relief pressure then it will stay level until rpm gets so high it cavitates and pressure drops rapidly.

The pressure relief valve is there purely to stop excess pressure, it can't raise the pressure at idle on a hot engine as even with the valve shut you'll only see about 20psi or so.

Like I keep saying, fit a gauge if you want to see if your pressure is correct for whatever rpm you are doing as a switch can't tell you that!

please don't judge me before u know me.

but ok , now i know that renault isn't like any other car, I've driven some cars with a gauge and those gauges were in the same exact place, no matter the rpm.

but case closed on that subject, i don't want to argue thro the internet.

 

[omrek]

1.8 16v's dont make bugger all power under 4-5k anyway so doubt there isnt anything wrong with your engine.

ohh thats good news, i thougt there's something wrong with my car, life begun at 4500rpm. but asi it turns out its usual for those engines. Thanks for telling me that

 

[Chip-mk1]

please don't judge me before u know me.

but ok , now i know that renault isn't like any other car, I've driven some cars with a gauge and those gauges were in the same exact place, no matter the rpm.

What car are you on about?

Ive never yet come across any make of car where the oil pump is at maximum possible pressure at idle once it is warm, maybe from cold when the oil is much thicker but never once warm.
If it was it would imply the oil pump was taking huge sacraficial losses out of the engine as its totally unneccesary to have that sort of oil pressure at idle.

Here is a modern audi for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKllacm1o2A

 

[omrek]

What car are you on about?

one car for sure was that same Ford Probe, i did several things to it and had to drive it until its hot to see if the rocker cover seals hold up and to see if those washers did what their job of raising the pressure. after startup the needle never moved.

 

[Russ_16v]

Could it have been the gauge was faulty mate? I honestly cannot think of coming across the situation you are describing in 15 years in the motor trade?

(oh, and as previously stated, the 7p's need at least 4500 rpm on them to get going, so yours sounds fine)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Maybe someone put gearbox oil in instead of engine oil. Lol.

 

[Dan519]

F7 pressure gauges tell lies, the sensors are pretty poor and inaccurate. A new sensor/sender will improve what the gaige is telling you

 

[omrek]

Could it have been the gauge was faulty mate? I honestly cannot think of coming across the situation you are describing in 15 years in the motor trade?

(oh, and as previously stated, the 7p's need at least 4500 rpm on them to get going, so yours sounds fine)

i did some research on my own and I'm sorry for doubting you before.

but u seem to know much about those engines, so here's another question, the compression ratio of that engine is 10,0:1(pretty high), so should i use 98 octane fuel for it or the regular 95. autodata says minimum is RON95 but i'm doubting about the quality of the fuel here. on the other hand i think if the knock sensor does it's job, and by that the ecu can adjust the ignition timing, the 95 should also be fine, even if it's actually 93 or even less? i live in estonia, and the fuel coming in here is not as good as anywhere else

 

[Chip-mk1]

I wouldnt ever want to rely on a knock detector keep pulling the timing out, especially if you are driving hard, so I would stick to using at least the 95 RON that it is mapped for, not sure on cost difference over there but here its only a few pence a litre different for 98 so no reason not to run it really.

High CR isnt a problem on lowish octane fuel if that is what it is mapped for, which with 95RON recomended, is the case with your car.

 

[Russ_16v]

As Chip has said mate, dont reply on the knock sensor - imo i have always got better mpg on higer octane fuels, so i would always use the best availablle

 

[omrek]

ok, 2 new problems, firstly while drivin, all the power is lost for a few moments, than i play with the gas pedal and few moments later, it starts so pull again. sometimes it's like this two times in a row, so after the first time i get up to speed, and than it happends again, sometimes i can drive like 10 minutes before it happening.
secondly rarely it wouldn start, engine is cranking, i can hear ignition for a very shor time, but than it stops, last time it happened, it statred on the 3rd try as again i played with the gas pedal, and after starting it ran like it normally would

 

[Laine_16v]

This is how my F7 used to react to oil pressure, iirc it was a relatively cold engine so readings were quite high, but you can see how its reactrs very well.

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/...ew&current=oilpressure.mp4&mediafilter=videos

 

[omrek]

ok, 2 new problems, firstly while drivin, all the power is lost for a few moments, than i play with the gas pedal and few moments later, it starts so pull again. sometimes it's like this two times in a row, so after the first time i get up to speed, and than it happends again, sometimes i can drive like 10 minutes before it happening.
secondly rarely it wouldn start, engine is cranking, i can hear ignition for a very shor time, but than it stops, last time it happened, it statred on the 3rd try as again i played with the gas pedal, and after starting it ran like it normally would

still need help with that, i've checked every plug there is on sensors, but still nothing. but i understood that its flooding the engine while starting, theres a big smell of gasoline. that's why it wouldnt start that well. when it starts it judders for a while and there's white smoke coming out from the exhaust, but after that it started to work as it should.

the loss of power while driving is still happening, and still quite randomly. when it happends i press down the clutch and allow the engine go down to idling speed, and after that its ok again till the next time. it may happen again straight away or it may not happen again douring this driving session. as i said, completely random

 

[Russ_16v]

Could be a fuel injector being intermittant, or a wiring issue to one?

 

[omrek]

Could be a fuel injector being intermittant, or a wiring issue to one?

1 injector can overflood entire engine? i was planning to clean/wash the injectors in a local garage, they have a machine to do that.

 

[omrek]

still need help with that, i've checked every plug there is on sensors, but still nothing. but i understood that its flooding the engine while starting, theres a big smell of gasoline. that's why it wouldnt start that well. when it starts it judders for a while and there's white smoke coming out from the exhaust, but after that it started to work as it should.

the loss of power while driving is still happening, and still quite randomly. when it happends i press down the clutch and allow the engine go down to idling speed, and after that its ok again till the next time. it may happen again straight away or it may not happen again douring this driving session. as i said, completely random

HELP!!

 

[Zmaster2k]

Sounds like an earth issue to me

 

[Peter_]

I've got a 19 valver as well and everything yours does mine pretty much does, and yeah you do have to rev them to get anywhere haha

 

[Peter_]

sorry didnt read about the problems you have been having i was on about the first post haha

sounds silly but 19's go through spark plugs like anything due to water leaking through the bonnet scoop, new spark plugs?

 

[omrek]

Sounds like an earth issue to me

can u be more precise?