New brakes- no biting force :(

[ripp]

went about 500 miles with the following setup:
Brembo HC-front (new discs)
ferodo ds 2500 font pads (also new)

had the pads carefully installed and filed down a bit (as often required), and the brake fluid changed and bled at the dealer.
the discs and pads have been properly bed in, went easy on them about 130 miles, then a bed in session (10 hard stops from 60 to 5-10 mph), 10-15 mins of cooling down the brakes, then another 10 hard stops. pad material went nicely on the discs and since then, covered about 400 miles or so of normal driving.
problem is, I'm lacking bite force, even when the ferodo's are up to temp, and the pedal seems a bit soft. swapped cars with a friend (he's got a 172), he also had the pads changed about 150 miles ago (EBC blackstuff cheap ones) and we both could tell the difference between the cars (braking wise..)
was thinking the bleeding was carried on the wrong way some how or can it be something else?
cheers!

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Air trapped in the system?

Were the definatley bled properly?

 

[ripp]

I'm really hoping this is the issue, I'm gonna re-bleed them in a couple of days. wanted to know if I should look elsewhere beside re-bleeding
thx for reply

 

[Toms_clio]

I had exactly the same problem. I didn't file the bit of the top of the pads down tho ..

 

[ripp]

and how did you get rid of the problem? filing down isn't always necessary, some said they didn't had to do it.

 

[ripp]

:bump:

 

[S76Pilot]

I'd bleed the brakes correctly if they feel spongy at all. If you had the fluid changed it's worth doing. Usually there is a sequence when renewing the fluid but i'm not yet yup to speed with the Clios yet. I know my old Evo had a specific way to do it properly. Sometimes you can get a glaze on the pads/discs, and it might just be that you need to go and abuse the brakes a few times. get them nice and hot with some major hi speed braking runs.

 

[Riley!]

What fluid you used? If its cheap crap you could of cooked it during the bedding in process leaving them now spongy. I'd recommend ATE blue from GSf around £15 a liter. Is blue too so you can see when its completely bled through.

As for the sequence is furthest away from the bottle first

 

[TimR26]

I think you've boiled the fluid as well doing those hard stops. Rebleed with some decent fluid like Castrol Super Response. When I bed mine in I did several stops from 40 to 20, 60 to 30 then 80 to 40, gradually building back up to speed between each one.

 

[m_jonathan24]

I think atouba is right, 10 hard stops from 60 is a lot for the brakes to take... I know this might sound silly but you did make sure the disc's were wiped with a spirit before fitting remove all the transit oil?

 

[S76Pilot]

If you boil the fluid, once it cools it shouldn't be too bad again. Bit like when your brakes go off on a track day, no pedal pressure at all and very unnerving, but give them time to cool and pedal feel comes back. The problem with brake fluid is that it is very hygroscopic(think thats the right word) and it readily attracts water/moisture.
Do a fluid change, less than £20 and an hour of your time, and at least you'll have new fluid as well as fully bled brakes. Then you can work on anything after that.

Still sounds like they might need bled properly tho.

 

[ripp]

so, here's how it went:
had the fluid changed at renault, and it was some dot 4.1 stuff, odd thing it only took about 500ml of fluid (k-tec said it takes at least 1 liter to do it properly)
the discs:
they were properly cleaned and the areas exposed painted with thermo black paint (I'm the kind of guy who likes jobs done properly and clean )
pads: the hard stops were carried on after some driving so don't think they are an issue right now.
fluid: I really hope the stuff renault sell won't boil after 10 stops! will probably put something better this time. also after doing the hard stops the pedal didn't went to the floor (as I know it's the symptom of boiled fluid) and didn't get any fade, just some smell coming from the brakes
was thinking to do the bleeding myself but in the guides section I found 2 methods: one involving a bleed kit which I can't find around here (I'm don't live in UK) and another one in which the photos are missing . don't want to mess with the brakes unless i'm 100% sure what to do.
any link or guide about this would be of great help
cheers and thx for the replies!

 

[Riley!]

to bleed the brakes manually just get a mate to pump the pedal, when the nipple is undone. As for 500ml of fluid, a full fluid change isn't possible with that amount. Around 1litre is required as k-tec informed you. Having had them bled recently everything should be nice and free so crack on lad

 

[S76Pilot]

was gonna say 500ml sounds like a real small amount. 1ltr or so is the norm on most cars. If you can find it, go for the Project Mu Gfour 355 fluid. It's very very good stuff and even if you order it in from abroad, it is the best i've found so far on track days. I never once managed to get it to boil or go off in a 360bhp evo vi. Even after 15 continuous hard laps of Cadwell Park (UK) and 335mm discs and Project Mu HC+ pads!

The brake bleed kits are quite cheap if you are on your own doing the job. Could you order one over internet? Just get a one that works on compressed air( from a car tyre or foot pump)

 

[Steve]

I don't get the bedding in pads with hard stops etc?
I fit new pads & then drive for a week or so, by then pedal is back to firm & no probs at all, not even on track.
I have Carbotecs standard disc & fluid & was on track within a week, 15-25 laps of Mallory no worries.

 

[S76Pilot]

carbotech xp8's/10's do require bedding in, ask Ian (tyrant on MLR) who supplies the carbotech brakes. Non hi performance compound brakes may not need bedding in. Standard brake material is usually good after 50-100 miles standard use.

 

[Steve]

Think i've got the xp8's but even the race teams don't do the bedding as my mates leading the championship & he looks after my motor

 

[S76Pilot]

Remember the race teams dont exactly potter to the shops and back in their cars. LOL. I'm only going from what the guy who makes these pads told me. I'm no expert.

 

[ripp]

I think performance pads and even OE ones give better performance after doing this. I also trust what these guys say:
http://www.essexparts.com/learning-center/cat/brake-pads/post/Bed-in
If done correctly you definitely get more performance
p.s: the mechanic who did the bleed was in a hurry then, maybe he didn't bothered in doing the job properly