New Xbox announced, tonight 18:00PM

[SharkyUK]

I wasn't sure if in the future this would be a possibility. I know launch titles will be spewing out in yawn-worthy 1080! I think 4K is do-able on two way Titan GTX SLi. But then you'd need more than an AMD processor out of a tablet to achieve this lol.

It's not necessarily fair to compare exclusive titles I know, but won't there be a lot more headroom for shaders and more advanced DX11 features with the GDDR5? Also they've already demonstrated that the GPU can be used to do non-graphical processing such as physics. Already something the Xbox is going to struggle with, especially if they offload it onto the CPU. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong but I think the Xbox One has it's work cut out this time round.

Oh FFS! I just spent aaaages writing a reply and it timed out and I lost it. Really can't be bothered typing it up again! It was boring anyway and discussed latency, local memory cache coherency benefits, how the XB1's eSRAM could be used with it's dedicated date move engines to pump data at a rate not too far off that of the PS4's 176GB bandwidth (and well above it's alleged 102GB bandwidth) and other interesting stuff. LOL! In a nutshell, yes, PS4 has a significant advantage with GDDR5 and Microsoft can attempt to reduce the deficit through effective use of their eSRAM. The fact that 8GB (not 4GB as we were originally told to expect) is available in GDDR5 spec in the PS4 really is a blow to Microsoft. Strangely I wonder if the tables will turn and it might be the PS4 that's easier to develop for initially whilst developers take a while to figure out the best way to maximise performance on the XB1...

For the likes of physics on the GPU, if one system can do it then the other can; they are both as capable as each other. The important factor here is how the data driving the physics simulation will be formatted and processed by the GPU's. For pretty eye-candy particles effect physics on the GPU the bandwidth hit is minimal. Particle state data is loaded to the GPU effectively in the form of a texture and it stays there. It's processed, texture updated and then used as input for the next iteration of the physics simulation. That is, the physics data doesn't need to be touched by the CPU hence it stays GPU-side. That's why a lot of these nice new particle physics effects are pretty but also quite limited in terms of interactions with other entities in the game. If more complicated physics simulations are to be run on the GPU then both systems will suffer regardless of how much bandwidth they have. Mind you, they do have a big advantage over PC's here as the cost of going from GPU to CPU is a lot cheaper on console than on PC. Quite a bit cheaper in fact.

You won't need to eat your words mate because I also agree in that Microsoft have their work cut out. I guess my annoyance is due to the usual fanboy rubbish that gets thrown around when a new launch is forthcoming; and the fact that people seem to be expecting a vast difference in the end result based on the spec's that have so far been confirmed (or not as the case may be...) It's like a 220bhp Clio vs. a 300bhp Clio debate. The 300bhp Clio is significantly more powerful but in reality you won't see it disappearing over the horizon whilst you're left eating it's dust! (Can't think of a suitable analogy! Late. Tired). Might try posting something more coherent and readable again soon... LOL!

Exciting times ahead for gamers regardless. The new consoles are looking quite tasty no matter how you look at them.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Oh FFS! I just spent aaaages writing a reply and it timed out and I lost it. Really can't be bothered typing it up again! It was boring anyway and discussed latency, local memory cache coherency benefits, how the XB1's eSRAM could be used with it's dedicated date move engines to pump data at a rate not too far off that of the PS4's 176GB bandwidth (and well above it's alleged 102GB bandwidth) and other interesting stuff. LOL! In a nutshell, yes, PS4 has a significant advantage with GDDR5 and Microsoft can attempt to reduce the deficit through effective use of their eSRAM. The fact that 8GB (not 4GB as we were originally told to expect) is available in GDDR5 spec in the PS4 really is a blow to Microsoft. Strangely I wonder if the tables will turn and it might be the PS4 that's easier to develop for initially whilst developers take a while to figure out the best way to maximise performance on the XB1...

For the likes of physics on the GPU, if one system can do it then the other can; they are both as capable as each other. The important factor here is how the data driving the physics simulation will be formatted and processed by the GPU's. For pretty eye-candy particles effect physics on the GPU the bandwidth hit is minimal. Particle state data is loaded to the GPU effectively in the form of a texture and it stays there. It's processed, texture updated and then used as input for the next iteration of the physics simulation. That is, the physics data doesn't need to be touched by the CPU hence it stays GPU-side. That's why a lot of these nice new particle physics effects are pretty but also quite limited in terms of interactions with other entities in the game. If more complicated physics simulations are to be run on the GPU then both systems will suffer regardless of how much bandwidth they have. Mind you, they do have a big advantage over PC's here as the cost of going from GPU to CPU is a lot cheaper on console than on PC. Quite a bit cheaper in fact.

You won't need to eat your words mate because I also agree in that Microsoft have their work cut out. I guess my annoyance is due to the usual fanboy rubbish that gets thrown around when a new launch is forthcoming; and the fact that people seem to be expecting a vast difference in the end result based on the spec's that have so far been confirmed (or not as the case may be...) It's like a 220bhp Clio vs. a 300bhp Clio debate. The 300bhp Clio is significantly more powerful but in reality you won't see it disappearing over the horizon whilst you're left eating it's dust! (Can't think of a suitable analogy! Late. Tired). Might try posting something more coherent and readable again soon... LOL!

Exciting times ahead for gamers regardless. The new consoles are looking quite tasty no matter how you look at them.

GDDR5's increased latency isn't an issue when it comes to rendering though due to how the way the GPU works? I thought the benifits outweigh anything lost due to the way it pumps through huge amounts of data in splotches rather than continuously like on DDR


Is that the process for real time physics calculations on GPGPU and Physx? Or are you just talking about basic particle effects? I thought for something like Physx, memory bandwidth was fairly crucial to transfer the data around quickly, as there is a lot of it. Again, I suppose it's moot as I highly doubt developers are that enthusiastic about making use of any of it on multi-platform titles. Let alone trying to effectively get the same result with eSRAM. Time is money, init!

 

[imprezaworks]

Im going to give the ps4 a blast this time round. I think its going to be a shame as the current xbox/ps3 are superb, but when the new models come out they will look very inferior, i hope, in a good way. Roll with the times etc

 

[C.J]

Just catching up with the Xbox details, are these correct:

Games are not backwards compatible?
Games are restricted to one console/live account (meaning you cannot lend to a mate/take to a mate's house) - unless a fee is paid?
The console must be connected to the internet once every 24hrs to play games?

 

[imprezaworks]

Not sure what the first question means, never looked into it. But if the other two are correct thats pretty crap.

 

[Matt26]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

Publishers to receive cut of Xbox One pre-owned sales at retail

Retailers will be free to charge whatever they wish for pre-owned Xbox One games, but both Microsoft and publishers will take a percentage cut of every sale.

​This is how we’ve been told it will all work:
A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsoft’s T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsoft’s cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

The game is then registered as having been traded-in on Microsoft’s system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account – hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to ‘check in’ to Microsoft’s servers every 24 hours.

The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.

Unconfirmed reports on ConsoleDeals.co.uk suggest that retail’s slice will be as little as ten per cent. That’s a significant cut from what it has become accustomed to from pre-owned sales and more in line with what they would receive from the sale of a new game – hence, the value of the pre-owned market to the retailer is effectively destroyed.
​
These same unconfirmed reports also suggest that the activation cost for consumers buying or borrowing pre-owned software will be £35.

 

[Tyler@Ultimate]

From what I know

Just catching up with the Xbox details, are these correct:

Games are not backwards compatible?
No
Games are restricted to one console/live account (meaning you cannot lend to a mate/take to a mate's house) - unless a fee is paid?
They are still working away around this, full details to be released still

The console must be connected to the internet once every 24hrs to play games?
Initially yes, but I believe they have re-assessed this again and are looking to make it offline

 

[Silent_Scone]

Oh, Andy. Following on from what I was saying earlier lol.

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/Releases/NVIDIA-Announces-PhysX-Support-for-Microsoft-Xbox-One-Game-Console-997.aspx

​

 

[SharkyUK]

GDDR5's increased latency isn't an issue when it comes to rendering though due to how the way the GPU works? I thought the benifits outweigh anything lost due to the way it pumps through huge amounts of data in splotches rather than continuously like on DDR

Is that the process for real time physics calculations on GPGPU and Physx? Or are you just talking about basic particle effects? I thought for something like Physx, memory bandwidth was fairly crucial to transfer the data around quickly, as there is a lot of it. Again, I suppose it's moot as I highly doubt developers are that enthusiastic about making use of any of it on multi-platform titles. Let alone trying to effectively get the same result with eSRAM. Time is money, init!

What I've mentioned above (albeit in very much simplified terms) is the process for GPU based physics (through PhysX or whatever). Whether that's a GPU-driven particle effect or something more complicated, the basic idea stays the same. THat is, the base data for the physics simulation needs to be encoded in some novel format and sent to the GPU as a texture. That texture may contain values representing position, velocity, collision normals, collision object ID's or pretty much anything that is needed to drive the simulation on the GPU. Once uploaded to the GPU, shaders are used to perform the physics calculations. They query the encoded texture data, perform the updates, write the results back to the encoded texture. This newly generated texture then represents the updated state of the simulation and can be used as the input for the next iteration of the simulation. Repeat ad infinitum (or as necessary). This is how a basic and purely GPU-side physics simulation works. Hence the minimal interaction between CPU/GPU. It's a bit more complicated than that but hopefully it gives a general idea of how it works. And due to the inherent (relative) complexity of this process, that is why most GPU PhysX effects tend to be particles and eye candy and have very little impact on other entities in the game world.

More complicated physics simulations can be run on the GPU but at the cost of performance. As soon as results need to be read back from the GPU then performance generally takes a hit (even though the consoles are far more capable than PC's due to their architecture in this regard). Trying to synchronise game-critical physics response with the GPU can also be problematic and often result in the loss of performance gained elsewhere in the system. This is why a lot of the physics simulations on the GPU also tend to be fire-and-forget and don't have any real effect on, say, player movement, interaction and so forth. All the important physics stuff is still pretty much done on the CPU side (at least from what I've seen and how I've worked on these things). As GPU's evolve more into general purpose massively parallel processing units I do expect things to change with more and more non-graphical stuff being done on the GPU.

Oh, Andy. Following on from what I was saying earlier lol.

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/Releases/NVIDIA-Announces-PhysX-Support-for-Microsoft-Xbox-One-Game-Console-997.aspx

​

LOL! Perfect timing!

 

[Adamm.]

Lol at the gif.

 

[mace¬]

running a hypervisor.

That has sold it for me. If I can tell my mates its got a hypervisor then that sounds cool.

 

[FiXX]

Sky HD doesn't output audio via HDMI, so that's the HDMI IN for the Xbox One scuppered before it's even been released.

yes it does, just not 5.1.

 

[Daz.]

Has it said anywhere if the blu ray player plays 3d movies?

 

[N0ddie]

Has it said anywhere if the blu ray player plays 3d movies?

​Yup.

 

[Matt26]

yes it does, just not 5.1.

No 5.1? Might as well be deaf.

 

[Toypop]

Yeah my cinema system (and previous systems I've owned) doesn't display the 5.1 logo if Sky is connected via HDMI. Funnily enough I get the same problem with my Apple TV too.

So I connect them both by optical cable and in the case of the latter I have to change the sound setting from Auto to forcing digital sound on.

People mistakenly believe the sound is in 5.1 because if your system is like mine it will switch to that pseudo surround mode.

I think this block/charge on used games is interesting.

That will really get the publishers on MS's side. I can see Sony coming under pressure to implement such a system now or face losing out on things like exclusive DLC and early releases going to MS.

I guess Sony will do that but are playing it smart by announcing the feature second. MS announces if first and takes the PR pain, Sony announces it second and people just shrug their shoulders and know they have no choice but to suck on it.

 

[The Fatty]

sky are upgrading HD units to output 5.1 over hdmi.

 

[DannyR]

Yep mine did it the other day! About time!

 

[Turkish]

I think this block/charge on used games is interesting.

That will really get the publishers on MS's side. I can see Sony coming under pressure to implement such a system now or face losing out on things like exclusive DLC and early releases going to MS.

Has it been stated anywhere who the driving force behind it is? It could be MS/Sony, who will no doubt try to lay on the piracy angle as their motive but equally I wouldn't put it past the likes of EA to be pushing MS/Sony to implement it as they stand to make a lot more cash if they make used games as unappealing as possible and/or make a cut of any when they do change hands.

 

[FiXX]

sky are upgrading HD units to output 5.1 over hdmi.

Nice, cheers for the heads up!

 

[The Fatty]

surely the price of the games will be cheaper if the second hand value is decreased by this system? i.e. something you cant sell on is generally worth a lot less than a re-tradable item.

 

[Snakey]

Just a passing thought and Im sure the pro's will answer this

If games are all now to be installed onto the system, what is the likely hood of now being able to 'mod' games like they do on PC? My thought being that previously games ran from the files being supplied direct from disc, now the files are installed onto the system thus making them accessible for modification...

Possible?

 

[paddymph]

I hope they bring back the sent you a message videos or something similar. I used to like watching those. I'm not a massive fan of the current dashboard arrangement in 360 either.

Also... They need to add more free themes and stuff like that, there used to be loads of little freebies at the start of Live, you could watch or mess about with. Added to the overall enjoyment I think.

 

[Munson]

Just a passing thought and Im sure the pro's will answer this

If games are all now to be installed onto the system, what is the likely hood of now being able to 'mod' games like they do on PC? My thought being that previously games ran from the files being supplied direct from disc, now the files are installed onto the system thus making them accessible for modification...

Possible?

TBH I thought most modern console games were installed anyway, with the disc just being used for verification?

In any case I sincerely doubt that mods will ever been something that's encouraged on a console. Not a chance IMO.

 

[Snakey]

I'm not sure of the PS3 but the 360 gives you the choice of installing the game to the HD (for loading speed purposes I believe)

While game developers may not like the idea of their games being modified, one things for sure is that it can improve the players experience and definitely the longevity of a game. This is all confined to PC titles at the moment, but if developers were more open to mods it would surely benefit them in the long run.

 

[DeeKay86]

I personally think that what they are doing with the Xbox One is brilliant, and very smart!

For example, and just one example: The ability to computer tasks in the cloud, lessening the workload inside the actual console, meaning better looking games and a scalable performance increase in the future. Very smart!

 

[dk]

I personally think that what they are doing with the Xbox One is brilliant, and very smart!

For example, and just one example: The ability to computer tasks in the cloud, lessening the workload inside the actual console, meaning better looking games and a scalable performance increase in the future. Very smart!

the 'cloud' is brilliant, until it goes down....

how many times is xbox live down, and people complain, if the game or app relies on processing in the cloud then you will be stuffed, plus it will depend on peoples connection etc.

in the last year alone, we've have blackberry go down several times, amazon have been down too, and last week mime cast were down for a few hours meaning many big corporates couldn't send or receive email externally.

These 'cloud' based systems are brilliant, until they have an issue, then millions of customers are affected and become angry.

 

[DannyR]

I don't think I've ever seen Xbox live down.

 

[realnumber 1]

I've used live since it first came out and other than planned downs it's been down only a couple of times for me. It's why it's always being worth paying each year for the service...

 

[The Fatty]

I have never had Live go down on me.

Regarding mods of games, I expect there will be protection code in place like there is on the discs/drives to stop this from happening. Else piracy would be easier and cheats would be back in the mix.

I watched the 2 game trailers on the Xbox One home screen link today, I wasn't impressed with the graphics at all. I was expect a lot better from a next gen console. tbh it doesn't look that much better than it does now. But as has been said before, if a game is good, it doesn't need s**t hot graphics. I was just hoping for more realism considering how they are pushing that in the ads.

 

[DeeKay86]

Ive only seen Xbox Live down when they said its going to be down... and I've been using it 8 years!

Not passing judgement on games till E3. Would be stupid to say anything about them till they actually show more / show gameplay.

Also, confirmed exclusives that we know of so far out of the 15 they mentioned are:

Forza 5
Quantum Break
Ryse - Made by Crytek - looks f*cking epic! If you search for a video you'll only find old videos from when it was announced for the 360. Now its XBOne exclusive.

Ryse link: http://www.crytek.com/games/ryse/overview

 

[DeeKay86]

I have never had Live go down on me.

Regarding mods of games, I expect there will be protection code in place like there is on the discs/drives to stop this from happening. Else piracy would be easier and cheats would be back in the mix.

I watched the 2 game trailers on the Xbox One home screen link today, I wasn't impressed with the graphics at all. I was expect a lot better from a next gen console. tbh it doesn't look that much better than it does now. But as has been said before, if a game is good, it doesn't need s**t hot graphics. I was just hoping for more realism considering how they are pushing that in the ads.

You havent seen any in-game or gameplay graphics yet... what are you not impressed with? We have seen nothing to actually pass an educated judgement on.

 

[dk]

You guys must have short memories then, live has been down loads of times in the past, maybe not so much recently, more planned downtime, but it's still been down, and when there's more and more reliance on the cloud, there's more impact when it is down. Like I said, some big names, where people rely on them being up 100% of the time have been down recently, and it causes big problems for people.

oh look, it was even down a month ago, see the comments below to see that cloud is only good when it's up........

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...lone-and-microsoft-is-working-on-the-problem/

 

[dk]

Oh and has everyone forgotten the 2 weeks it was down in 2008, I knew I'd forgotten a big outage, they even have us a free arcade game download, there were constant problems for 2 weeks straight.

Xbox live fans are like apple fans, quick to forget any issues with their beloved brand!

we need the ability to be able to play our own games on our own consoles without a need to be connected to the the Internet or a service constantly.

 

[ThomasBrentnall]

I have never had Live go down on me.

Regarding mods of games, I expect there will be protection code in place like there is on the discs/drives to stop this from happening. Else piracy would be easier and cheats would be back in the mix.

I watched the 2 game trailers on the Xbox One home screen link today, I wasn't impressed with the graphics at all. I was expect a lot better from a next gen console. tbh it doesn't look that much better than it does now. But as has been said before, if a game is good, it doesn't need s**t hot graphics. I was just hoping for more realism considering how they are pushing that in the ads.

How would you be able to see a difference in graphics? Of course they are going to look the same as what they are now, you was watching it on a 360 after all...

(With a 8 year old graphics chyp + engine)

 

[JHead]

So as someone who every now and then goes on the xbox to play forza or gta... In summary the new one will also have ridiculous game prices, that you will have to pay because you can't buy second hand games. And you have to have connect, and also still have to pay for live.

Other than the fact GT is apparently terrible, what is there on the ps4 to put me off?

The rumours of 299 and 399 for it new are also a ridiculous price to pay!?

 

[DeeKay86]

So as someone who every now and then goes on the xbox to play forza or gta... In summary the new one will also have ridiculous game prices, that you will have to pay because you can't buy second hand games. And you have to have connect, and also still have to pay for live.

Other than the fact GT is apparently terrible, what is there on the ps4 to put me off?

The rumours of 299 and 399 for it new are also a ridiculous price to pay!?

cant buy second hand games? Where the hell are you getting this info? You're so wrong!

will always have to have Kinect. Yes, and that's a bad thing? It's bundled with every XBO, it gives you more features and you don't "have to" use it. Plus it actually looks epic now! Problem?!

Have to pay for live? Is £25-£40 a year too much for you to pay for the best online gaming service?? If so, save £25-40 and go to PSN, I guarantee you'll miss the Live experience.

Not being rude but please do some actual research before posting stuff that isn't true. And quit taking rumours as fact.

 

[JHead]

I was asking if all that is a correct summary of what I've read in the thread.. Wow calm down :L

 

[KDF]

How would you be able to see a difference in graphics? Of course they are going to look the same as what they are now, you was watching it on a 360 after all...

(With a 8 year old graphics chyp + engine)

I think he means it was a video of in-game footage running on a One. Doens't matter if it was played back on an 8 year old console as it's all pre-rendered video if you know what I mean. All the 360 has to do is play back a video.

Haven't seen the videos though so can't comment on how much better (or not in this case) the One graphics are.

 

[KDF]

Oh and has everyone forgotten the 2 weeks it was down in 2008, I knew I'd forgotten a big outage, they even have us a free arcade game download, there were constant problems for 2 weeks straight.

Xbox live fans are like apple fans, quick to forget any issues with their beloved brand!

we need the ability to be able to play our own games on our own consoles without a need to be connected to the the Internet or a service constantly.

So true,

I genuinly will not buy a One if it needs to be always connected.. or every 24hrs etc I am totally against it.. it's the reason I did not buy Sim City and Diablo III despite how much I love those type of games.

TBH, I don't really have much time to play games anymore anyway lol