Real World Weight Difference: 182 FF Vs 172 Cup

[Martin.]

Always think about this, and always wonder the actual difference in weight between the two starting platforms.

So does anyone actually have facts? Not just claimed weights.

What does the 172 Cup not have that the 182 does? How much weight does that equate to?

What does a 182 FF have that the 172 cup doesn't. How much weight does this equate to?

How much does the lack of ABS save, 15kg?

How much heavier is the 182 back box??

How much heavier are the windows?

How much weight does the Xenon conversion add?

What else is there that changes the base weight?

Are the panel weights all the same. Engine weight the same?

Basically just wondering how much of a difference there would actually be between a stripped 182 (say mine) and a 172 cup. I have a severe weight saving addiction..

Surely someone must have weighed things and know the facts

 

[Chip-mk1]

182 is actually quite light as standard due to missing a spare wheel, but better to compare weights minus that anyway.

 

[Fantom]

Talking of weight reduction, can I just remove the fuel rail guard and forget about? Or is that not advisable?

 

[Martin.]

But how much extra does the double exhaust weigh?

And if talking stripped Clios, neither would have the wheel in anyway. The 182 just has the heavier exhaust.

I'm just trying to confirm the actual differences between the two and work out what that might relate to in actual weight.

I know the 182 has bigger wheels and a heavier standard interior etc. I'm more interested in stripped Vs stripped, where both would have buckets anyway..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Talking of weight reduction, can I just remove the fuel rail guard and forget about? Or is that not advisable?

you can if you dont have a crash, if you do though you are greatly increasing the risk of a total loss due to fire.

 

[Chip-mk1]

But how much extra does the double exhaust weigh?

Not got figures,but a fair amount, I was surprised how heavy they are the first time I took one off a car!

And if talking stripped Clios, neither would have the wheel in anyway. The 182 just has the heavier exhaust.

Agreed, that was my point with the book figures, they bias in favour of the 182, it is lighter than a ph2 172 IIRC on the book figures.

 

[Martin.]

Not got figures,but a fair amount, I was surprised how heavy they are the first time I took one off a car!



Agreed, that was my point with the book figures, they bias in favour of the 182, it is lighter than a ph2 172 IIRC on the book figures.

​I was really surprised at the weight of the 182 exhaust too!!

 

[Budgie]

182 exhaust weigh a ton. Mostly because they all seem full of water, lol.

Also, lol at removing a fuel rail guard to save weight- they weigh f**k all.

 

[Fantom]

182 exhaust weigh a ton. Mostly because they all seem full of water, lol.

Also, lol at removing a fuel rail guard to save weight- they weigh f**k all.

Still a big lump of metal lol
I see loads of track cars on here without them.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Still a big lump of metal lol

Its a few hundred grams of ally, and it could save your car from going up in smoke.

I see loads of track cars on here without them.

Yes and loads of other really stupid mods too, but I dont copy them all, neither should you.

 

[Rob]

LOL @ removing the fuel rail guard. The clue is in the name ffs.

 

[Chip-mk1]

LOL @ removing the fuel rail guard. The clue is in the name ffs.

I dont think that "fuel rail guard" is a good enough clue for some of the users on here to make the connection that it guards the fuel rail TBH mate. lol.

 

[Fantom]

Well I'm glad I asked then!
Its been over a year since I took it off so I probably think its heavier than it is anyway

 

[Martin.]

Off topic but what does the job of the fuel rail guard when an RS2 or ITBs are fitted then?

 

[Martin.]

There must be more than the 4 points stated in my OP which differentiate the weight between the two surely!?

1. Lack of ABS, save 15kg?

2. Difference exhaust style/shape, save 10kg?

3. Different windows, save 3kg?

4. Xenons and pipes, save 5kg?

5....

 

[Fantom]

I dont think that "fuel rail guard" is a good enough clue for some of the users on here to make the connection that it guards the fuel rail TBH mate. lol.

Oh thanks. I know damn well what it does. But they also put air bags in my car and I don't have them anymore either

 

[Rob]

Oh thanks. I know damn well what it does. But they also put air bags in my car and I don't have them anymore either

Yes, but no doubt you have harnesses? Fuel rail guard, on track, where having a front end impact is quite likely, would be something I'd keep for the sake of leaving a bottle of water at home.

 

[Fantom]

I was only asking as I'd seen cars without them. Plus I thought they were heavy for some reason.

No harnesses here I'm too tall for them

 

[katana2]

Hi guys,


See this : http://www.cliors-concept.com/t702-Alléger-sa-RS.htm

 

[Rob]

I was only asking as I'd seen cars without them. Plus I thought they were heavy for some reason.

No harnesses here I'm too tall for them

Honestly mate, just put it back on. It's very light, and just from a risk point of view it's REALLY not worth it.

 

[Harbinger]

I reckon that std Exhaust weighs around 40Kg, I kid you not it's ridiculously heavy, my scorpion back box weights at least half.

 

[Harbinger]

Ac condenser weighs a fair bit too, good way to lose weight would be to change the wheels to like Ultraleggeras imo lightest for the money, or divorce tends to make things heavier marriage.

 

[Fantom]

Honestly mate, just put it back on. It's very light, and just from a risk point of view it's REALLY not worth it.

I never took it off. Was just thinking about it the other day with what other bits I could take off. Rear wiper is next I reckon

 

[Martin.]

I reckon that std Exhaust weighs around 40Kg, I kid you not it's ridiculously heavy, my scorpion back box weights at least half.

Did you weigh your after market exhaust by any chance?

 

[LiamR172]

As above. Lighter wheels would help, OZ F1s, TD 1.2s or the OZs mentioned above.

Removed all your tar etc aswell?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Oh thanks. I know damn well what it does. But they also put air bags in my car and I don't have them anymore either

Airbag on a trackday car is potentially quite dangerous.
If you have a slight love tap at 100mph on a fast section of the course, last thing you want while trying to regain control of the car is an airbag exploding with all its noise and drama and burning your hands and blocking your vision.

I think you need to think about WHY someone has removed something before you decide if they are a sensible person to copy or not.

 

[Martin.]

Hi guys,


See this : http://www.cliors-concept.com/t702-Alléger-sa-RS.htm

That'sa very very extensive list. Did you make it?

Struggling to convert some of the words though makes quite a hard read.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ac condenser weighs a fair bit too, good way to lose weight would be to change the wheels to like Ultraleggeras imo lightest for the money, or divorce tends to make things heavier marriage.

Unsprung weight is the most important to lose.

IIRC Colin Chapman reckoned in his tests that 1lb of unsprung weight lost did as much good as 7lbs of sprung weight.

 

[NorthloopCup]

There must be more than the 4 points stated in my OP which differentiate the weight between the two surely!?

1. Lack of ABS, save 15kg?

2. Difference exhaust style/shape, save 10kg?

3. Different windows, save 3kg?

4. Xenons and pipes, save 5kg?

5....

no a/c on a cup either mate, so there's a good 10-15kg there. Also, the cups come with nigh on no sound deadening in them. I know your asking about stripped vs stripped, but some people may not remove this. Maybe. Possibly?!
Cup front glass is also apparently thinner. They can only mean the screen or door glass, but never found out 100%. The screen on an ff has the light/rain sensors and a fancy coating to reflect heat, whereas the cup is just a poverty spec one. Front door glass weighs in at 3.5kgs per window on a cup.

 

[Martin.]

As above. Lighter wheels would help, OZ F1s, TD 1.2s or the OZs mentioned above.

Removed all your tar etc aswell?

Yeah my car is pretty stripped. Have OZ F1s too.

Just purely thinking on a 182 vs 172 cup weight basis.

 

[Martin.]

no a/c on a cup either mate, so there's a good 10-15kg there. Also, the cups come with nigh on no sound deadening in them. I know your asking about stripped vs stripped, but some people may not remove this. Maybe. Possibly?!
Cup front glass is also apparently thinner. They can only mean the screen or door glass, but never found out 100%. The screen on an ff has the light/rain sensors and a fancy coating to reflect heat, whereas the cup is just a poverty spec one. Front door glass weighs in at 3.5kgs per window on a cup.

Oh yeah of course air con!! How did I forget that..

Also with the windows, does the difference actually make anything noticeable in weight you reckon?

1. Lack of ABS, save 15kg?

2. Difference exhaust style/shape, save 10kg?

3. Different windows, save 3kg?

4. Xenons and pipes, save 5kg?

5. Air con, save 12kg?

6. Sound Deadening, save 10kg?

 

[AdDaMan]

Hi guys,


See this : http://www.cliors-concept.com/t702-Alléger-sa-RS.htm

Wow that's awesome!! We need a translated page.

 

[Adam G]

Depends why you want to really. If you're just taking out for the sake of it, why bother?
Cracks me up how people strip absolutely everything possible out of the car, drill holes in the bodywork etc. Then still have a tank full of fuel and a fatty in a passenger seat. Just for a track day!
Maybe different if you think that the last g, might make 0.01 seconds a lap in a race.

 

[Chip-mk1]

no a/c on a cup either mate, so there's a good 10-15kg there. Also, the cups come with nigh on no sound deadening in them. I know your asking about stripped vs stripped, but some people may not remove this. Maybe. Possibly?!
Cup front glass is also apparently thinner. They can only mean the screen or door glass, but never found out 100%. The screen on an ff has the light/rain sensors and a fancy coating to reflect heat, whereas the cup is just a poverty spec one. Front door glass weighs in at 3.5kgs per window on a cup.

Easy enough for you to vernier the thickness of your glass on the cup and I will do the same on the ph1, the ph2 and the ph2182 we have at home and see if they are all the same or not.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Depends why you want to really. If you're just taking out for the sake of it, why bother?
Cracks me up how people strip absolutely everything possible out of the car, drill holes in the bodywork etc. Then still have a tank full of fuel and a fatty in a passenger seat. Just for a track day!
Maybe different if you think that the last g, might make 0.01 seconds a lap in a race.

Agreed!
If you are racing, every kg matters, but if you are doing trackdays who actually cares what your laptime is anyway, its just about having fun and slightly more weight doesnt make it less fun, but loads less creature comforts makes it less pleasant driving to and from the track.

As FCS I had the aircon on, it was lovely.
(and was still pretty much the quickest thing on the track anyway in all my sesisons so it shows how little harm it does)

 

[Martin.]

Cheapest way to more power iirc? And more agility / better handling.

Lighter the better I say.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cheapest way to more power iirc? And more agility / better handling.

Lighter the better I say.

If you are competing then without a doubt as colin chapman said "add lightness"

 

[Mr Plums]

I can feel a difference on turn in with the ultaleggeras than the standard 16s, its so much better, it might be in my head but it just makes the car feel lighter.

Its a much better drive with the lighter wheels.

Say if ive lost 10kg in unsprung weight with the wheels, what will this equate to in real terms?

 

[Martin.]

I can feel a difference on turn in with the ultaleggeras than the standard 16s, its so much better, it might be in my head but it just makes the car feel lighter.

Its a much better drive with the lighter wheels.

Say if ive lost 10k in unsprung weight with the wheels, what will this equate to in real terms?

Almost 70kg then working to Chips ratio

 

[Mr Plums]

Almost 70kg then working to Chips ratio

Im not exactly sure what weight ive saved, 10kg was just a rough estimate lol.

EDIT..

Stardards are supposedly 9.625kgs each according to the below link...

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?417483-182-wheel-weight

The oz's are supposedly 6.8kgs according to the below link...

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?171687-OZ-Ultraleggera-16-quot-Wheel-Weight

Thats a difference of 2.825 per wheel equaling 11.3 kg in unsprung weight, so ive lost a bit more