Might be about right though, 182 wheels are heavy and you've gone to smaller light weight wheels. Could even be more than 10kg saved there.
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Might be about right though, 182 wheels are heavy and you've gone to smaller light weight wheels. Could even be more than 10kg saved there.
Colin chapmans test were on F1 cars not clios, so I dont think the number can be used quite that directly, but its still certainly true that laptimes WILL be effected more by 10kg of unsprung loss than of sprung loss
Its also worth thinking about the height of weight, 10kg lost from the windows is worth more to your laptimes than 10kg lost from the underseal under the car for example.
182
Nothing to do with the list of items you stated.
Wheels is a huge factor. I went from 182 wheels and tyres which one weighed just shy of 19kg.
Then swapped out for 16"oz superleggeras which weigh in at around 11.4kg with a 195 x 45 16 tyre! So a pretty big weight save. Although i have added a bit mote by fitting 300mm discs and 406 brembos.
Interesting thread this shall keep an eye on it
Wheels is a huge factor. I went from 182 wheels and tyres which one weighed just shy of 19kg.
Then swapped out for 16"oz superleggeras which weigh in at around 11.4kg with a 195 x 45 16 tyre! So a pretty big weight save. Although i have added a bit mote by fitting 300mm discs and 406 brembos.
Interesting thread this shall keep an eye on it
Fiesta ST2 MP215
I didn't know but given I can curl at the gym 22kgs max this felt that bit lighter ( Yes I know it's a stupid comparison but it sort of makes sense ) and the std back box I can barley grip with one hand, ridiculously heavy.
Oh ok fair enough hehe
Good point. I didn't put wheels on the list. Cup Turinis have got to be a fair bit lighter than the 182 wheels haven't they!?
1. Lack of ABS, save 15kg?
2. Difference exhaust style/shape, save 10kg?
3. Different windows, save 3kg?
4. Xenons and pipes, save 5kg?
5. Air con, save 12kg?
6. Sound Deadening, save 10kg?
7. Wheels, save 20kg?
SOD that lol. I like leather!
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
No longer have it mate I'm afraid. I've got the full p4p windows in my cup.
Fiesta ST2 MP215
I meant plastic backings etc, there is a set on here in the sale section for £300 at the mo, will weigh a fair bit less.
Don't you only have half leather though?
330i. E30 Touring.
Fiesta ST2 MP215
Standard seats weigh about 24kg, my leather seats weigh 8kg
Besides I'm not saying I want to or will be doing all which is mentioned in this thread.
Just purely interested to actually find out the factual difference in weight between the two models.
Actual weight difference is around 80KG, mainly due to No AC, Spare wheel, pov spec seats, crap stereo with speakers that weigh nothing, no Xenons, lack of wheel on a 182 is made up for with super heavy exhaust.
Is probably easier to lighten a 182 CUP to less than a 172 Cup, FF won't make much difference to it.
Yeah, I think I've accounted for about 70k give or take
1. Lack of ABS, save 15kg?
2. Difference exhaust style/shape, save 10kg?
3. Different windows, save 3kg?
4. Xenons and pipes, save 5kg?
5. Air con, save 12kg?
6. Sound Deadening, save 10kg?
7. Wheels, save 20kg?
Having driven plenty of cups and 182s, I can honestly say whatever the weight saving is, doesnt seem to actually do a great deal anyway to how they drive.
Much like if I put a 80kg passenger in my car, it still drives the same, sure the laptimes would show a difference, but nothing I really notice when driving it.
Shows how pointless it is chasing a few KG if you arent racing.
Much like if I put a 80kg passenger in my car, it still drives the same, sure the laptimes would show a difference, but nothing I really notice when driving it.
Shows how pointless it is chasing a few KG if you arent racing.
Fiesta ST2 MP215
Rago, this must be the reason, Because Racecar!
You wont ever save 100s on a road going 182 without turning it into some nasty horrible noisey unpleasant trackday car that is no longer any good on the road.
If its a race car, do it, if its a pure trackday car and you dont mind it being a bit unpleasant on drives to and from tracks, do it, but if its a road car only an idiot would want to lose their aircon etc IMHO!
banther
ClioSport Club Member
No air-con is no fun.
I stripped 20 kilos off my 172. Went on a diet.
I stripped 20 kilos off my 172. Went on a diet.
The Clio was only purchased to be a track day car so loosing the comforts doesn't bother me.
But saying that, it's still a very tame looking track car.
Every time I look at it or spend some time on it I find other things I want to do or remove. Part of the fun of it in my opinion.
Anyway, the point of this thread was just to find out the facts in the weight difference between the two models. It seems now, it's stuff that's barely noticeable and all weight a track car would have probably lost already.
But saying that, it's still a very tame looking track car.
Every time I look at it or spend some time on it I find other things I want to do or remove. Part of the fun of it in my opinion.
Anyway, the point of this thread was just to find out the facts in the weight difference between the two models. It seems now, it's stuff that's barely noticeable and all weight a track car would have probably lost already.
Yes the reality is that the cup isnt a better spec, its just a cheaper spec for renault to hand out to people to use for building a race car from, it has no advantage (other than the aircon delete) really though, it just has cheaper bits.
If you are building a race car you bin the interior, so it has a poverty interior etc
People on here seem somehow to have some weird idea that its somehow already a performance version, its not, its just a cheaper base to build one for (or rather it was, now they are secondhand arent even any cheaper than a FF 172!)
Ok, before I got my clio cup, I had an Almera gti ( dont laugh , fantastic little car ), a similar discussion to this was on the owners club forum. One owner went to town on his car and stipped it as much as he could to trackday it....
Sound deadening tar from under carpet 16kg
Reduced weight of coilovers
8kg
Reduced weight of bucket seats 8kg
Lightweight battery saved
11kg
Lightweight Flywheel 4kg
Underdrive alloy crank pulley 1.5kg
Rear
seat belts 4.2kg
Rear seats 4.3kg
Racing harnesses as opposed to front OE
belts 2kg
Parcel shelf 1.5kg
Spare wheel / Jack / Tools 19kg
Speakers
fr/rear 4kg
Stereo 2kg
Reduced weight of decat 2kg( estimate )
Reduced
weight of Hotshot header as opposed to cast OE one 2kg (estimate
)
Lightweight wheel nuts 0.5kg
Rear wiper / mechanism 1kg
Front fogs
1.5kg ( estimate )
Boot carpet 1.7kg
unwanted stereo cables/tweeters
1kg
aerial cable and aerial mast 1kg
OE airbox and resonator boxes 2.5kg
metal support panels behind door trim 1.5
exhaust back box heat shield.
1kg
air vents that run under front seats and ECU pastic cover 1kg
rear
`door` cards 1.8kg each
rear hatch plastic trim 1.0kg
rear window plastic
surrounds 0.8kg each
boot carpet ( around sides ) 1.0kg
few other bits and
bobs....3.0kg
A/C rad / Pipes 3.4kg
Boot support panel ( thin wooden
thing ) 1.5kg
Front door card speaker panels 0.4 kg x 2
Passenger sun
visor 0.3kg
Using 195/50 tyres instead of 195/55 saves 0.8kg per wheel x 4 =
3.2kg
Air Con compressor and iron bracket/bolts = 10.6kgs
Electric windows
to manual ones saving 1.2 kgs
Front door cards ..... 3kg X 2
Central
locking components. Solenoinds, control unit, door wiring loom and a few other
bits and bobs.1.2kgs
Headliner, int` lights and some useless brackets....
3.3kgs
Sunroof 13.3kgs!
remainder of firewall blanket 2.1 kg
a/c parts
2.0 kg
venting 0.5 kgs
glovebox 1.0 kg
battery tray 1.3 kg
16" Rota
slipstream + 205/40 tyres = a 1.5kg saving per wheel
Racing steering wheel (
no airbag ) = 2.5Kg
Removing PAS and installing electric water pump =
8.5kg
This should give you an idea of what can be achieved.Hope its of some help.
Sound deadening tar from under carpet 16kg
Reduced weight of coilovers
8kg
Reduced weight of bucket seats 8kg
Lightweight battery saved
11kg
Lightweight Flywheel 4kg
Underdrive alloy crank pulley 1.5kg
Rear
seat belts 4.2kg
Rear seats 4.3kg
Racing harnesses as opposed to front OE
belts 2kg
Parcel shelf 1.5kg
Spare wheel / Jack / Tools 19kg
Speakers
fr/rear 4kg
Stereo 2kg
Reduced weight of decat 2kg( estimate )
Reduced
weight of Hotshot header as opposed to cast OE one 2kg (estimate
)
Lightweight wheel nuts 0.5kg
Rear wiper / mechanism 1kg
Front fogs
1.5kg ( estimate )
Boot carpet 1.7kg
unwanted stereo cables/tweeters
1kg
aerial cable and aerial mast 1kg
OE airbox and resonator boxes 2.5kg
metal support panels behind door trim 1.5
exhaust back box heat shield.
1kg
air vents that run under front seats and ECU pastic cover 1kg
rear
`door` cards 1.8kg each
rear hatch plastic trim 1.0kg
rear window plastic
surrounds 0.8kg each
boot carpet ( around sides ) 1.0kg
few other bits and
bobs....3.0kg
A/C rad / Pipes 3.4kg
Boot support panel ( thin wooden
thing ) 1.5kg
Front door card speaker panels 0.4 kg x 2
Passenger sun
visor 0.3kg
Using 195/50 tyres instead of 195/55 saves 0.8kg per wheel x 4 =
3.2kg
Air Con compressor and iron bracket/bolts = 10.6kgs
Electric windows
to manual ones saving 1.2 kgs
Front door cards ..... 3kg X 2
Central
locking components. Solenoinds, control unit, door wiring loom and a few other
bits and bobs.1.2kgs
Headliner, int` lights and some useless brackets....
3.3kgs
Sunroof 13.3kgs!
remainder of firewall blanket 2.1 kg
a/c parts
2.0 kg
venting 0.5 kgs
glovebox 1.0 kg
battery tray 1.3 kg
16" Rota
slipstream + 205/40 tyres = a 1.5kg saving per wheel
Racing steering wheel (
no airbag ) = 2.5Kg
Removing PAS and installing electric water pump =
8.5kg
This should give you an idea of what can be achieved.Hope its of some help.
WRX
Loud ones are at risk of being black flagged though.I loud fart weighs more than the fuel rail guard
Chase Racing Clio
Why do you all keep hypothesising about how much stuff weighs....?? Why don't you actually weigh the damn car!! AND when you weigh them, make sure they're in the same loading condition!! The figures you see in brochures for vehicles will never be a good like for like comparison because of how manufacturers certify their vehicles, each one "cheating" to a varying amount. So.... the 1035 kg brochure figure you'll find for a normal 172 is not really a vehicle you can specify.
Before stripping what is now the race car, we weighed our car in at "Base Curb Mass"... which is full fluids, no passengers or luggage. It came in at 1114 kg. After stripping the living daylights out of it, we got it down (in the same loading condition) to 965 kg. The big hitters came from; getting rid of the spare, ripping out all the seats in place of 1 bucket seat, replacing glass windows with polycarb, chucking out the airbags and ditching the air con. The ABS isn't a vast amount, with the only real difference being the module which is no more than about 4 kg. Then the rest of it was just loads of little bits, like slimming down the dash, removing all the bitumen sound deadening stripping out bits of electrical harness that were no longer needed and even cutting some bits of metal out of door.
We've still got plenty to go after and recently we got rid of the PAS pump, modified the rack to make it fully manual and saved ourselves about 8 kg in fluid, pipes and the pump. Fibreglass boot and bonnet get a decent saving too, but then it starts to get a bit more pricey! Modifying the steering rack cost us nothing!
Before stripping what is now the race car, we weighed our car in at "Base Curb Mass"... which is full fluids, no passengers or luggage. It came in at 1114 kg. After stripping the living daylights out of it, we got it down (in the same loading condition) to 965 kg. The big hitters came from; getting rid of the spare, ripping out all the seats in place of 1 bucket seat, replacing glass windows with polycarb, chucking out the airbags and ditching the air con. The ABS isn't a vast amount, with the only real difference being the module which is no more than about 4 kg. Then the rest of it was just loads of little bits, like slimming down the dash, removing all the bitumen sound deadening stripping out bits of electrical harness that were no longer needed and even cutting some bits of metal out of door.
We've still got plenty to go after and recently we got rid of the PAS pump, modified the rack to make it fully manual and saved ourselves about 8 kg in fluid, pipes and the pump. Fibreglass boot and bonnet get a decent saving too, but then it starts to get a bit more pricey! Modifying the steering rack cost us nothing!
Personally even on a race car I'd sooner have the PAS than an 8kg weight saving, unless you are replacing it with an electric setup or similar (which puts weight back in anyway), when you have slicks and a quick rack you need the assistance in order to quickly and accurately dial in reverse lock when you get a moment etc.
Everyone I know who's had PAS fail on their race car has got significantly slower as a result
Everyone I know who's had PAS fail on their race car has got significantly slower as a result
Chase Racing Clio
We've not just pulled the pump out and crimped the pipes up though.... that would be the stupid way of doing it, because we'd still have to either push fluid or air against itself. We took the gear out of the rack and cut out the seal that sits in the middle, then greased up the gear and stuck it back in. It's a much neater solution and doesn't have the resistance that a failed pump would have.
Even still, Id sooner haver a quicker rack and PAS.
I added PAS to my trackday corsa along with a quicker rack and it was much better to drive on track afterwards, quickly allowed you to get all of the lock on.
You never know when you are suddenly going to need all the steering input all in one go.
Fiesta ST2 MP215
I would never Ditch PAS an go manual, you'll be knacked lugging the wheel round after a session, esp if you've got slicks you'll never turn the wheel going slow.
If weight is the primary concern get a Caterham like me, build on the Clio for regular driving to make it more fun, but if you are after a serious trackcar, either do it properly, massive Power etc Like Chips mental creation and have a winner or get something else, I hate making references to my Caterham but it saves you all this hassle, all you need to really do is rip the K series out and put a better lump in ( Sapphire Cossie ) and you're off nothing much to worry about other than the Wife wondering where your money is going lol
Not to go against the Clio ( I have one that I love ) but it does not need to be taken to these extremes of ripping out PAS etc, just put some spacers on to make it a bit winder, thicker wheels and spunk your wages into the engine bay.
I await rage.
If weight is the primary concern get a Caterham like me, build on the Clio for regular driving to make it more fun, but if you are after a serious trackcar, either do it properly, massive Power etc Like Chips mental creation and have a winner or get something else, I hate making references to my Caterham but it saves you all this hassle, all you need to really do is rip the K series out and put a better lump in ( Sapphire Cossie ) and you're off nothing much to worry about other than the Wife wondering where your money is going lol
Not to go against the Clio ( I have one that I love ) but it does not need to be taken to these extremes of ripping out PAS etc, just put some spacers on to make it a bit winder, thicker wheels and spunk your wages into the engine bay.
I await rage.
Harbinger, for track days I agree, but if racing it DOES still make reasonable sense to use a clio.
Look at the 1/2/3 that lads from here got in the (admittedly bit mickey mouse but racing none the less) french trophy race at mallory)
Where as if they had a cossie westy, what would they race it in? and how competitive would it be? So from that point of view I see where Hoofy (and other clio racers) is coming from.
Look at the 1/2/3 that lads from here got in the (admittedly bit mickey mouse but racing none the less) french trophy race at mallory)
Where as if they had a cossie westy, what would they race it in? and how competitive would it be? So from that point of view I see where Hoofy (and other clio racers) is coming from.
Fiesta ST2 MP215
Sorry Dude I think I put that across completely wrong re-reading my post, I meant it for Trackdays not racing, I know there are Clio events etc and in that case I'd say go full baller and strip it, Boost it do whatever you're allowed, all for the win, for tracking I personally wouldn't use the Clio for a variety of reasons, Caterham for Racing has never worked, mainly as they make one out of the factory that no one has really beaten with a 2.4 Cossie lump the 500 I think, stupid car they ruined it for everyone that cannot afford it, The Graduates thing is pretty good but Supersports upwards Dominate it all.
To accurately answer this thread, what is required is weights of the specific differences, its not good knowing a cup is X kg lighter without that info too TBH in terms of if you are trying to carry the weight saving across.
clio 182 sport
My friend has a 172 totally stripped out, literally nothing but a bucket seat and my 182 has everything in there and a set of 438 cams and his 172 is just as quick if not even has the edge so stripping your car does make a difference but f**k using his 172 as a daily.
Agreed mate, without a doubt if laptimes are what interest you then the best thing you can add to you car is lightness, it improves handling/braking/acceleration all at once.
But if laptimes bother you that much, there are better cars than a clio, to me the clio's best feature is its all round nature.
We use ours for loads of road miles on long trips, commuting, fetched over a quarter of a tonne of tiles in one go for the kitchen, and then do trackdays as well, all in the same car and it does fairly well at all of it, the moment its stripped out and caged etc you lose everything but the track bit really, in which case why not just buy a westy instead unless you are really into clios just for the sake of it, (like my mk1, lol).
