Really feint hesitation/miss at light throttle

[jinjur]

View attachment 1398321

My conscience is clean @bloke

Literally today sent a bin liner of brand new toys just today to go to a charity sale for UNICEF, specifically to bring aid to children in Yemen in the new year.

And might I say.......i am so happy to have done that.

So today.....maybe just today only....I am allowed to huff and whine about my injectors

I only have under an hour of permitted moaning left so give me that....lol

 

[STEVE.M]

The fact that these have in fact come from ECP has completely shat upon my illusion that these were straight from Marelli


The one that is incorrect btw..............was actually opened and has been sealed shut with an ECP (IWP042) sticker......I can tell because of the dirt under the ECP sticker........the Marelli sticker underneath says IPM012. It was opened at some stage.

My apologies, I too was under the illusion that Renparts only sourced the injectors from Marelli, which was the case with the one`s myself & other`s have

received.

IPM012 is indeed a Citroen/Peugeot/PSA injector.

Any future recommendation I make regarding Renparts injectors will have a caveate recommending that the buyer checks first that they will supplied with items

marked only with 805001446001.

Hopefully Renparts will learn their lesson, and declare they are out of stock, if there is a supply problem, rather than tarnish their reputation by sourcing from

ECP.

Some people probably just thought I was having a rant when I was critical of ECP`s returns policy, but your experience is the proof of what I said, thank you.

My apologies to @Landyman if you don`t receive the correct items.

 

[bloke]

My conscience is clean @bloke


I only have under an hour of permitted moaning left so give me that....lol

is that all the wife lets you do ?


to be serious for a mo, you'd be surprised how many companies buy from euro. get a good discount and they are cheaper than EVERYONE on powerflex, h&r, milltek etc...

BUT the retailer should of spotted the wrong injector, especially with the euro sticker on it and as 50% of stuff from euro has bits swapped/missing!! i get exhaust/cat fitting kits from them and some have turned up with just a single clamp in the bag!!!!!

 

[STEVE.M]

50% of stuff from euro has bits swapped/missing!! i get exhaust/cat fitting kits from them and some have turned up with just a single clamp in the bag!!!!!

Probably the one you returned for credit 6 weeks ago with the bits you didn`t use.

 

[Landyman]

l will have to watch for this as l currently have four injectors in order from Renparts, after they were recommended to me as a supplier by someone on here.

Supposed to have been with me on Weds but not arrived yet.

If they are the incorrect type am l within my rights to return them. And where can l get the correct ones from?

 

[jinjur]

Having a little *nerd* through the logs................I have actually spotted the other behaviour of the car in it's current state

That being where I push the accelerator and rather than rev, the car dies a little first.

You can see where I have the marker (white) is where I push the accelerator and you can see the throttle (blue) open, you can also see the map (purple) register this.

But at that same instant, take a look at the engine speed (red)..............it actually drops and does not come to life and rev until the throttle is actually closed.............this chart is zoomed in to make it easier to see so it is not that dramatic, but the engine does respond after the pedal action......quite notably actually.

Zoomed in to show more detail

Real time view

 

[Simon998]

Call over to mine at the weekend and see if it's running any differently to my 172. I'm almost sure mine has the same characteristics.

 

[jinjur]

Will do bud...............would be interesting to see how they compare with regards to RSTuner logging. New injector coming tomorrow hopefully so would hope to get those in first. Will drop you my number in a PM and you can text me yours

You get your wheel nuts sorted? Happy to give the Milwaukee a bang if you want?

 

[JamesBryan]

That is some delay there!

 

[jinjur]

It sure is buddy............really noticeable when driving

 

[JamesBryan]

Almost like there's some impedance in the throttle ?

 

[jinjur]

It is strange isn't it...............although the throttle is reported to respond immediately, I wonder is the actual movement lazy?

I might look at that too.

I guess if it was sticking as well then it would struggle to modulate the opening to control idle.

Basically clutching at straws now








Until i meet Simon, test his and we conclude its perfect

 

[JamesBryan]

Take the airbox off and get someone to look at the throttle body as you press the pedal.

Should open instantly and you'll be able to see a delay.

 

[jinjur]

right guys................new injectors................no change

throttle is responding instantly as you can hear it gasp as it opens which is in line with the pedal press...........only after a hesitation does it rev

captured a video of the same and more logs if it would help

really hoped the injectors would make some difference but none.....gutted

 

[JamesBryan]

Stick them on here, let's have a listen/look.

 

[bloke]

Where are You?

 

[jinjur]

A very wet and miserable Northern Ireland @bloke

Will drop them up as soon as possible @JamesBryan

 

[jinjur]

Working on the logs now but here is a quick vid......excuse potato quality

This has only been at idle so it isnt as extreme as it can be but it gets worse and worse in traffic.......you can see and hear the gasp when it is revved quickly........you can also see the idle drop down to around 700

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7rFsBf424Vq62PtQA

A brief look at the logs shows the throttle is actually closed before the engine revs :/

J

 

[flebay]

.

hear the gasp when it is revved quickly

Thats normal induction noise my 182 does the same when you stab the throttle.

 

[jinjur]

ok........that's good @bloke thanks for confirming.........but the idle dropping down to say, 700 and then recovering every single time? as mentioned, this gets worse in traffic to the point that when you press the accelerator to move off when it is doing this, it stalls.

is there such a thing as a lazy map sensor? I mean.........i know the thread has went on for a long time now and I am sorry about that, but i mean, what else is involved in the management of the idle?

throttle body
map sensor

I have thrown a lot of parts at this and am happy enough to have done so as they all *should* help how it runs in the future......but, it never used to do this and it is a killer

 

[jinjur]

This is exactly it here......after a quick rev (sometimes worse by a prolonged rev say moving in stop-start traffic).............the idle bumbles down to 760 or so rpm which is obviously worse at times.....and you know how these cars feel at that rpm.............then it slowly wanders back up to the 900+ rpm where it is generally smooth

 

[JamesBryan]

You say the timing is 100% spot on?

 

[jinjur]

yes buddy

i do this every tim ebut sure....again!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UR8H1QM2nSzrNni86

 

[jinjur]

sorry @Fleabay thanks for confirming the induction uptake being normal

 

[jinjur]

Just to confirm, that timing check was after about 5 manual rotations after the crank pulley was replaced and that was a week ago

J

 

[flebay]

This is exactly it here......after a quick rev (sometimes worse by a prolonged rev say moving in stop-start traffic).............the idle bumbles down to 760 or so rpm which is obviously worse at times.....and you know how these cars feel at that rpm.............then it slowly wanders back up to the 900+ rpm where it is generally smooth

Its as if the engine is being starved of air.
Given the opportunity i would be swapping parts over from your mates car in NI you could give him some money and save some.

 

[JamesBryan]

sorry @Fleabay thanks for confirming the induction uptake being normal

Sound it makes is normal, but the delay seems slower than what i'm used to.

 

[jinjur]

I hear you bud........and Simon has kindly offered but what parts is the question?

Map sensor is probably an easy one but what else is playing part here? Throttle body? Accel pedal sensor?

I don't want to go brutal on his car as there is always the chance of breaking something and would hate to do that given his generousity

 

[jinjur]

Hey @JamesBryan I agree.....it is certainly a longer pause that I recall

:/

J

 

[jinjur]

one thing still do do is the breather gasket as the one in the car was a bit hard, that wont be here till Monday mind

thinking through that, could it be leaking air slightly and throwing the fuelling off and it is trying to compensate?

eugh, i dont know

 

[JamesBryan]

An air leak would cause rev fluctuations.

 

[flebay]

Map sensor is probably an easy one but what else is playing part here? Throttle body? Accel pedal sensor?

All 3 it wouldn't take long.

thinking through that, could it be leaking air slightly and throwing the fuelling off and it is trying to compensate?

That would cause a high idle, just like opening the throttle body.

 

[jinjur]

because the throttle doesn't care what air is passing in as the system is based on MAP rather than MAF?

 

[bloke]

Had a focus with a lazy map sensor, absolute ball ache to diagnose/confirm it was lazy!!!!

Throw it on the boat, I'll pick it up from the terminal and throw it back on the boat when it's fixed ?

 

[jinjur]

 

[jinjur]

Just thought I would add something else for the fun of it.

Been reading the workshop manual like a bedtime novel....Lol.....my power steering switch is leaking....not loads....tiny weep....but.... The manual says that this should lift the revs when steering pressure is detected....

Mine does quite the opposite and the revs drop

Normal?

 

[STEVE.M]

Just thought I would add something else for the fun of it.

Been reading the workshop manual like a bedtime novel....Lol.....my power steering switch is leaking....not loads....tiny weep....but.... The manual says that this should lift the revs when steering pressure is detected....

Mine does quite the opposite and the revs drop

Normal?

£25 for a new one.

https://www.renaultpartsdirect.co.u...renault-power-steering-sensor-various-models/

 

[jinjur]

Will just add it to the @#$%ing list... lol

 

[jinjur]

Another oddity....perhaps normal but let's see if it might be related.

If I press the pedal lightly....in this case held with a screwdriver against the seat I.e. constant pressure.... it will not....it just won't sit at a single rpm value.

It is possible over 2k although there is some movement......below 2k rpm it does this at constant throttle.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YAhZTz5QK5zYdr8S6

J

 

[jinjur]

I also unplugged the pas steering sensor and it made no difference to idle or behaviour when the steering was turned....idle still drops.