Really want a 172 cup but...

[darren_rallye]

The 172 Cup looks so yum I'd not mind no ABS.

Just get practiving with the braking first and be careful.

 

[crazycup]

In 7 years of driving i've only ever relied on ABS once(had it on my previous cars). Only locked the brakes on the cup once aswell. Its no problem, just don't go daft in the wet mate! A cup keeps you on your toes not like these ABS ESP driver cant handle it machines.

 

[Tim]

once you have been driving it a while you will now how far you can push it . but go drive one and then see how you feel .

 

[OLLZIE]

If you want a cup, get a brake upgrade like me (DS2500 Pads, Brembo Discs and Goodridge Lines). Dont drive like a c**t in the rain and you should be fine.

 

[wozzaa]

ABS isnt really meant to stop you quicker just supposed to prevent you from skidding thats about it. a non abs car thats hard on the brakes generally just carries on ploughing through something where as the abs car will still give you the ability to turn without the need for cadance braking since this is no longer taught to people no more but the abs is generally better at providing maximum braking while still not locking the wheels totally better than you would yourself but knowing how to brake in the first place properly and using the abs system as well will only result in better stopping.

Never actually had my abs kicking in either but its there a non abs car wouldnt bother me though but its nice to know these features are there in that moment when they may just be needed.

 

[Kris 172]

I've had my Cup 8 months, bought it at 19 was £1200 on Insurance fully comp , don't worry about ABS mate, just try and use your common sense when driving mate and there will be no problems.
I have not locked up yet !!!! Touch wood but FF Clio's are the nuts in both Summer due to A/C and Winter with ABS . It just comes down to what you prefer and also afford as cups are generally slightly cheaper.

 

[Darren]

i am 19 too and when i bought mine i never realised it didnt have ABS (never did much research just wanted one) and my mate told me on way to newcastle to get it that it never had. rest of journey i was sh*tting myself about what i had done and let myself in for. but 5 months on and i love it, is most fun car to drive i ever owned. still to get through a winter but like has been said before if its icy and wet and slippery then use your common sense and dont drive fast.

if you want one get one. i have no regrets. (except the speeding charge coming up against me lol)

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

ABS does have one massive drawback. Snow. In the Clio, at least, the ABS is so sensitive you literally cannot brake in the snow. Without it, the fronts dig into snow and cause a plough effect which slows the car. With it, you just sail on with almost zero braking effect at all. The Clio is my first car that has ABS and I was shocked at its braking in these conditions. You have to almost completely use gears to slow a Clio 182 in the snow. More so than in any other car I've driven (without ABS) I was a doubter of this concept until I first drove the 182 in snow...it's quite weird just feeling the pedal bounce back at you on the slightest feathering of your foot, while the car glides on regardless. Also the 182 is a DOG on compacted snow, zero grip, traction control on or off. Several months ago I was going backwards down a slight inlcine while trying to pull away in 3rd & even 4th, with traction on or off. Anyway thats a different topic...

Ummm, what tyres were you using when you came to this conclusion??

======================

BTW what's with the "don't drive like a dick in the rain/winter" ???

Don't drive like a dick.. Ever.

Drive fast if you like, and all you guys talking about "real drivers don't need ABS" sure, but it doesn't say anything about the driver if the car has or hasn't got ABS..

And it doesn't matter if you drive fast or not, always make sure your summer tyres have good grip in the wet (none of this "they're the best, except when it rains:dead and when the temperature is consistantly below 10 degrees C, then switch to winter tyres.

 

[portland]

If you drive like a dick in the winter in a cup, you'll die. The ABS and ESP keep you alive a fraction longer.

In honesty, I wouldn't get one unless you are an experienced driver. I mean at least 50,000 miles with a few winters thrown in.

I tested the theory out re some insurers refusing cover and was quite shocked. I changed car from trophy to full fat to 172 full fat to 172 cup. Premiums changed a bit (Trophy is a group 17) but when I got to the cup, I started getting declines! For reference, I'm in my 30's, no at fault claims (2 collisions, other party at fault, full recovery made), 5+ years protected no claims, no points (touch wood) not too bad a postcode, why should I get a decline on a quote for a 172 cup when I can get cover for an RS4? (long story, don't ask)

Cup is a storming little car, but a little more unforgiving, be careful and make sure you can get cover, there are a lot of them binned when the nights draw in.

 

[tameracingdriver]

Totally agree with mr munsons post.

I've hardly ever utilised ABS in any car thats had it to be honest.

I never had it in my Golf GTI. Never missed it either.

Most of the time when its come on, its been on snow / ice, and then its absolutely terrible TBH.

 

[Gaz_]

when they look this good...... they are hard to resist (mine lol)

 

[kully]

you know you'll defo get 1 now , just wanted the reassurance :evil:

 

[Munson]

Ummm, what tyres were you using when you came to this conclusion??

Exalto PE2. I didnt come to a conclusion. It's just what happened to me. Do you own a 182? The 182 is a dog in the snow. Perhaps it's too light for 205 section tyres when the surface is slick? I dont know, I do know that my 182Cup is a nightmare in snow though. More so than any other car I've owned

 

[Andy]

Just get one and learn to respect it. They're great fun.

 

[Munson]

Just get one and learn to respect it. They're great fun.

What he said. Same goes for any car really. I've not had the pleasure of driving a 172Cup, but if its anything like my 182Cup (and a 182 for that matter) then I know it's awesome. Straight line the 172Cup/182Cup/182 must be virtually identical, but I can only imagine my car with a further circa 60+kg removed :approve: :approve: :approve:

I certainly would not let the lack of ABS colour my decision. I say go fro the 172Cup if you can live without AC, which personally I could not. Changing the subject, but later cars had CC as an option, although I guess this would add a lot of weight. Maybe 15kg? It all adds up.

 

[Lagerlout]

And the load on the engine saps a few ponies into the bargain.......

I chose an FF over the Cup for lots of reasons and ABS wasn't one of them. Only thing ABS has is the ability to sense a skid before your brain will have had time to process the input and react - so in theory it can reduce braking times. But it's really no biggy.

Write down what you want from a car - Colour, spec, performance etc and get whichever car ticks the most boxes for you. Either way, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Exalto PE2. I didnt come to a conclusion. It's just what happened to me. Do you own a 182? The 182 is a dog in the snow. Perhaps it's too light for 205 section tyres when the surface is slick? I dont know, I do know that my 182Cup is a nightmare in snow though. More so than any other car I've owned

Well I wasn't questioning the validity of your post, simply a question. And there's the answer.

Michellin Pilots are not winter tyres, you will slide everywhere because they're designed for warm ground and the occasional bit of water.

Don't own a 182, and the Clio I have will be the only Renault I ever own (touch wood).

Try getting yourself some winter tyres, I usually have them on spare wheels ready to swap over, though some people swap the tyres on their rims.

 

[davo172cup]

None of my cars have ever had abs and ive not died once yet

^^^^ wot he said!

i drive works cars with abs and i prefer no abs, ye you got to be careful in the winter but u would still have to in a FF with abs or any car for that matter! and thn in the summer u can enjoy the wonderful world of late/hard braking without the abs kicking in!
just look at wot u prefer,

all the toy or all the joys?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

^^^^ wot he said!

i drive works cars with abs and i prefer no abs, ye you got to be careful in the winter but u would still have to in a FF with abs or any car for that matter! and thn in the summer u can enjoy the wonderful world of late/hard braking without the abs kicking in!
just look at wot u prefer,

all the toy or all the joys?

Umm you can brake with the same degree of force in a car whether it's got ABS or not, it's just when you reach that limit where on the none-abs car, the wheels lock up.

 

[davo172cup]

when i push my car(no abs) and the works cars(abs) the feel is different, u can feel the abs in the works cars but i find i can brake later and harder more confidently in mine!

my bad if i wrote something incorrect!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Not having a pop matey.

It will be the fact they're different cars.

If you have a Clio with abs and a Clio without abs then they will have the same braking power, but one will have the ability to stop the brakes locking up.

 

[blaze]

I can not believe some of the responses here.

In the dry any car will stop in about the same time, with or witout ABS. The DIFFERENCE is the damp/wet. No one is able to modfulate their manual brake pumping as fast as ABS. It's been proven so many times. Why do you people who feel you are invinciple now have, in general 172 cups. That's why they are written off by so many young men who do think there is no difference!!

No one can drive so that all risk of someone/thing being infront of you at any given moment is sadly mistaken. Back to young male driver syndrom again???

These types of threads seem to be populated by inexperienced people to say the least.

I can feel the testosterone buiding from behind my monitor.

On that note some people may now rant, but should think about the inaccurace's of their comments.

See you later. Off now.

PS a PM is a far better way of making a point. I know a lot of young males will take offence?????

 

[Peperami]

^^ cough cough...

The abs kicks in too early in the dry fella on ff's, if you learn to read, and read the above thread, you'd see that.

Ive driven both, and can testify to that.

And dont bother insulting people, or insulting peoples driving, if you dont know who you're speaking to, or how much experience they have.

 

[blaze]

Pepperami, I can assure you a LOT more than you young man.

As said use PM's if you can.If not then I will not explain on a public forum as I could not be bothered with the testosterone, lack of proof etc. etc., Lets just say 20,000 miles ayear now was more when I drove class1 police vehicles, having experienced far more that you have. Don't bother unless you are about 20+ years older that Sarah. That is unless you are her father.

You're experience pahhhhhh!!!!!! What can I say. Young and inexperiennced and arguementative, great recipe for reasoned debate.

My PM is there for a reason. Stops us blocking up valuable time for others.

Perhaps you shouls have had to pick up little bits of yound boys from the road like you????

 

[blaze]

Sorry everyone else the keyboard gets me every time

 

[philmots]

No one is able to modfulate their manual brake pumping as fast as ABS. It's been proven so many times.

see your wrong, to get full braking in the wet you dont want abs kicking in, if you had the same car with and without abs, and the car without abs is braking fully without the wheels locking will pull up quicker than the same car with abs pumping the brakes for you.

so why would i need to pump my brakes to get superior braking power? ive locked up a few times in my cup diving into a corner etc, no biggie its quite fun, part of driving, all do is lift off the pedal a bit then re apply the pedal.

now im not dissin abs because its great for 99% of the drivers out in the world who in a panic situation will just slam all on rather than THINK

 

[blaze]

Philmots, you will brake best at the point of locking up!!!!!!!, not when locking up under any circumstances, read roadcraft. That is why under stressful heavy emergency braking you will stop quicker with ABS in the wet. Tried, tested and proven, from someone that has done skid pans and tried cadence braking with wihout ABS.

Guess what you will stop quicker with in the wet and will be able to steer better. Unless of course you can cadence brake to the tune of about 16 pumps per second

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

lol Blaze, well put, sadly not many people will agree.

And sure, braking without using the ABS is going to stop the car quicker than a car with the ABS pumping your brakes for you... But if you let off and put your foot back down, then you are braking harder again, but instead of sliding when you broke too hard the first time, you were helped.

Peperami do you understand how ABS works ??? It is impossible for it to kick in too early.

It will kick in when the front wheels are turning slower than the rear wheels, now if you're going in a straight line, the only way this is possible is if the front wheels lock up.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

now im not dissin abs because its great for 99% of the drivers out in the world who in a panic situation will just slam all on rather than THINK

Ok, not aimed at anyone inperticular here.

But there are an awful lot of people on here that have this view, it's funny how they're all in that 1% of drivers out there and own a 172 cup...

 

[philmots]

best braking is at the point just before locking up, like a bit of slip is good. my point is that the car without abs who is braking at this point will poull up quicker than the car thats abs-ing along...

 

[philmots]

Ok, not aimed at anyone inperticular here.

But there are an awful lot of people on here that have this view, it's funny how they're all in that 1% of drivers out there and own a 172 cup...

there you go then, real men drive cups

 

[blaze]

Again BRAKING IS AT IT'S MOST EFFICIENT BEFORE THE WHEELS LOCK UP.

Simple as and any physisist knows as should anyone who drives a car FFS

Rant over

 

[philmots]

Again BRAKING IS AT IT'S MOST EFFICIENT BEFORE THE WHEELS LOCK UP.

Simple as and any physisist knows as should anyone who drives a car FFS

Rant over

yeah thats my point, whats yours?

 

[blaze]

Philmots you seem to me the next person who will have to be scraped off the road.

A God like ability who can out think the road, the ability to pump you brakes at 16+ times a second with no real knowledge, + 172 cup. LOL

 

[blaze]

My God not Pkilmots, was Pepperami

 

[davo172cup]

Not having a pop matey.

It will be the fact they're different cars.

If you have a Clio with abs and a Clio without abs then they will have the same braking power, but one will have the ability to stop the brakes locking up.

not a prob mate,didnt think u were having a pop

was getting confused, like u said there different cars so its not really fair to conpare!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

yeah thats my point, whats yours?

Oh dear...

You see philmots, the ABS car and the non ABS car can both reach the same deceleration rates before their grip breaks loose, in one case, the car will slide, in the other, the ABS will operate the brakes stopping them from locking up.

Before that threshold of grip vs. friction, they will be braking at the same levels, so "real men" would acheive the same stopping distances regardless of car. However, a "real man" would also realise he is no infalible. And for that reason, doesn't regard ABS as an un-needed aid.

 

[Diesel_Power]

This thread i funny. Im cliokhunts mate and he pointed me over here.

2 cars both sharing the same braking properties, discs, pads, calipers etc braking at their maximum efficiency would stop at the same time, physics really as the ABS wouldnt be used as the wheels wouldnt be locked up on either car and the same braking pressure would be applied on both cars.

Both cars foot flat to the floor for braking, the car with ABS will engage ABS and come to a halt (albeit juddery) and the non abs would lock up and skid to a halt.

ABS will only engage as cliokhunts rightly points out when the front wheels are turning slower than the rea wheels ( a lockup) under braking.

Theres no way, with the same braking properties that a non ABS car can stop sooner than a car with ABS.

 

[philmots]

Oh dear...

You see philmots, the ABS car and the non ABS car can both reach the same deceleration rates before their grip breaks loose, in one case, the car will slide, in the other, the ABS will operate the brakes stopping them from locking up.

really, i never knew that

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Would never have guessed:dead: