Agreed!
One thing they're all now showing however is your rear beams on the piss. Toe's set so your wheels are essentially doing this \-| instead of |-| which is why the thrust angles so high.
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RenaultSport Clio 182 geo/tracking settings
Agreed!
One thing they're all now showing however is your rear beams on the piss. Toe's set so your wheels are essentially doing this \-| instead of |-| which is why the thrust angles so high.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
£65! and not even a caster reading.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Take it back to kwik fit tomorrow and say you've used the wrong car and the calibration will be off due to the difference in wheel base.
Caster reading is the very first reading there mate ?
Christ I worry about some of you on here ?
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
The caster reading is blank, the one below showing -0°37 and -1°12 is camber...
On about the 3rd print out he's got now.
Last edited:
? Sorry that's my bad, when you open the image in full the way it comes out makes it look like a caster reading...You're right there.
However one thing's for certain, the passenger rear toe and camber is way out of allignment through all three print out's now so I'd say that's causing most of the issues. Passenger front looks suspect on the last two as well.
All in all. Clusterfuck.
Clio 182 FF
HIQ (bush tyres) read out says caster is spot on I think, car definitely feels better after just being aligned for the 3rd time, does pull to left now though, but could it be the rear left camber being out? & is the camber effecting the toe?
Thanks to you all for helping!
Thanks to you all for helping!
100% will be effecting it, Both rear wheels are effectively wanting to pull to the left. Camber will change toe so focus on setting the camber first then toe.
Can i just add a few points here as there are a couple of things that have been said that are not actually correct. Adding more caster to steering makes it heavier eg a positive figure , reducing it makes steering lighter.
As for camber changing the steering weight , static camber of a large negative may make it feel slightly lighter but its marginal but large negitive camber will have an effect on grip levels in the wet in a straight line eg when pulling away .
Large amounts of negative usually counter a soft setup , but a better solution is a stiffer ARB than sticking on huge amounts of negative camber.
And most of that won't make much difference to a road car with soft sidewalled road tyres at road speeds in all honesty
As for camber changing the steering weight , static camber of a large negative may make it feel slightly lighter but its marginal but large negitive camber will have an effect on grip levels in the wet in a straight line eg when pulling away .
Large amounts of negative usually counter a soft setup , but a better solution is a stiffer ARB than sticking on huge amounts of negative camber.
And most of that won't make much difference to a road car with soft sidewalled road tyres at road speeds in all honesty
Clio 182 FF
So would you advise getting a shim for the rear?
the reality is the rear Toe will always be better to be straight , but you need to shim both sides.
honest reality is that worth the effort , i am going to bet there are clios with worse rear beams than that happily being driven and the camber of the road has alot of influence on cars pulling left and right in reality.
it depends on the effort you want to go to as the bolts are often rusted and it can be a b**ch to do.
honest reality is that worth the effort , i am going to bet there are clios with worse rear beams than that happily being driven and the camber of the road has alot of influence on cars pulling left and right in reality.
it depends on the effort you want to go to as the bolts are often rusted and it can be a b**ch to do.
PH2 172
Surely not on the rear?
Increasing the neg camber on the front will add + toe, which need to be adjusted back out.
Also note that the 1 st & 3rd printouts are expressed in degrees & minutes, and the 2nd print out in degrees to the decimal point.
Please that PMS shims are calibrated in minutes.
https://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/clio-2-rs-camber-toe-shim.html
@mikecraker
Same applies for front or rear bud, always set camber first.
@harvsurrey Would correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure, he's pointed out many other mistakes made so far.
Clio 182 FF
The car had shim spacers on before I bought it so bolts are ok to remove!
I stand corrected though I still set it up that way around myself (or did) as its easier to remember where you are. Horses for courses.
Nothing wrong in you Methods and Its always worth checking after changing anything with suspension as you can strip and refit and it changes.
One of the reasons the tolerances are quite large on road suspension settings are rubber bushes and ball joints they wear and give so much as they put up with the utterly dire UK roads.
The only way to get accurate pinpoint setups that wont change slightly 5 minutes down the road are with nylon bushes and rose joints however running that sort of setup on the road is a nightmare of knocks , bangs, maintenance and spanner checks
One of the reasons the tolerances are quite large on road suspension settings are rubber bushes and ball joints they wear and give so much as they put up with the utterly dire UK roads.
The only way to get accurate pinpoint setups that wont change slightly 5 minutes down the road are with nylon bushes and rose joints however running that sort of setup on the road is a nightmare of knocks , bangs, maintenance and spanner checks
Clio 182 FF
Go forward and attempting to correct my car, which shims woukd you go for and would you do so on both sides at the rear? I understand camber on road can make it pull slightly one way or the other but I really am having to counteract it to drive straight, I would say if the wheel is a clock i am having to drive at 3mins past for it to track straight. I know I have a sticking caliper slider at front left and obviously the rear is out, could these two issues combined be causing the car to go off or do you think there could be another issue somewhere
Thanks for help
Thanks for help
PH2 172
If you want to be a perfectionist, a 10 minute shim either side to run the toe straight, and a 30 minute shim on the left, and another 10 minute shim on the right to even up the camber at minus 1.32/3
As previously said, its unlikely you will notice any difference.
I am not clear how many times you have had this adjusted today, just the once and you have had 3 print outs of the same set up or 3 adjustments made?
You need 2 10' shims (10 minutes) and one 30'
The 30 sorts the camber and the 10's to even up the toe.
However do the caliper first as that will almost certainly be the offending item to it pulling .
If I was doing the rear shims and depending on when they were last done I'd fit new rear wheel bearings which ultimately means new rear discs to do an easy job .
Fit the spacers back correctly and take note how they are fitted.
You don't have to but it's the way I would do it
Then I would look at the ball joints and bushes at the front , chances are you have some decent wear there too which is why you keep getting slightly different readings .
Last time I sorted our cup I just replaced the whole lot front to back bushes ball joints and bearings as chasing suspension issues is just frustrating and if your wanting perfection it's the only way ( don't forget front top mounts )
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The 30 sorts the camber and the 10's to even up the toe.
However do the caliper first as that will almost certainly be the offending item to it pulling .
If I was doing the rear shims and depending on when they were last done I'd fit new rear wheel bearings which ultimately means new rear discs to do an easy job .
Fit the spacers back correctly and take note how they are fitted.
You don't have to but it's the way I would do it
Then I would look at the ball joints and bushes at the front , chances are you have some decent wear there too which is why you keep getting slightly different readings .
Last time I sorted our cup I just replaced the whole lot front to back bushes ball joints and bearings as chasing suspension issues is just frustrating and if your wanting perfection it's the only way ( don't forget front top mounts )
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Clio 182 FF
I have done the rear discs with bearings, gebuine renault parts around 18months ago, it has 2 x new febi outer anti roll bar bushes either side, passenger front has new genuine wishbone which came with ball joint already in and the drivers side I put a lemforder in at same time as I do any suspension parts in pairs, also got 2 genuine rear shocks 3 months ago.
I am mostly bothered about the car pulling to the left constantly, the car drivers fine with no knocks etc but the pulling is a big annoyance and want to get that sorted. Don't you think the rear can be causing the car to pull to the left? I am going to get some new caliper sliders tomorrow and see what diff that makes
Apart from front arb bushes and wishbones what other would you advise replacing?
Thanks for all your help, you're very informative
Clio 182 FF
I had new ps3 fitted on front on Monday and at same time had tracking done, I immediately took the car back as it was pulling like crazy (the guy had to heat up the lock nut on tie rod which I found odd as track rods and tie rods about 18 month old, I fitted myself genuine parts) he put car back on machine and said he had set it wrong so did it again. It felt bang on, when I held the wheel straight it tracked straight although pulled to the left and felt like I was driving on ice so went back today at 11am to recheck and he said he was fully booked so I went across road to HIQ for them to check and give me a read out (that's the 2nd printout I attached) as soon as I left there it was clear he had adjusted toe to get business from me? so thought f#@k it and paid £65 for it to be tracked by someone else, that's the 3rd print out and that's what I'm at now, although got to turn slightly right for it to track forwards and pulls left when let go of wheel pretty bad. Sorry for the dissertation!!?
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Use this if you plan on doing it yourself, pretty handy.
https://robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm
https://robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm
PH2 172
You did have a pair of PS3`s fitted?
Ok, so you have changed tie rods, TRE`s & ball joints recently, so that rules them out.
As harvsurrey says, service the sliders on the calipers, and make sure the pistons push back in, but there again, that usually only makes the car swerve as you apply the brakes as a rule.
The TRE lock nut that won`t come undone is one of the oldest con tricks in the tyre centres book, used to upsell work that is not required ( and probably not done ) to those that don`t know any better.
Very often, unless you are lucky, the national chains have the Hunters etc to do the job, but nobody that knows how to use it properly, which is why you now have a car that the toe is close enough, but drives one hand down in a straight line.
I would suggest you go to these people, Ricci Concept, as 4 wheel alignment is what they do.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=4...9996!2d-0.35555539999999996&spf=1548881088867
To anyone near me, STS in Bedford is the place to go.
172 cup, Vw t5.1
I’ve started using a string line kit to set track clio’s up, although it takes a little longer a piece of string and a metal rule will never lie. Pure motorsport shims for rear toe and camber work a treat, Nick will have them to you next day. One thing to bear in mind, sometimes the stub axles are rusty on the mating face so by the time you clean them up and put the shims in it won’t always give you the desired result. Won’t be far off but worth a mention ?? Dependant on what you do in it, I would run -2 on the rear with 0 toe, -3-3.5 on the front with 1-1.5mm toe out but it will make driving on the road a bit twitchy! If you want to get a bit more serious toe the rear end out a touch which will lighten it up and aid turn in/reduce understeer. Not always great for some faster tracks when you want the back end planted though! All down to driver preference. A set of front camber bolts which are super cheap will sort the front camber
Zach because the beam isn't actually miles out. Nor was yours.
Steve advised you what you needed to get it spot on but to say that shim had a major effect on handling with no other changes would be a surprise.
As Steve has said most hunter operators in general tyre outlets are not fantastic , if you understand what your looking for and are with them when it's done then it's usually ok .
If your car feels better after fitting the shim then great.
Half the tyre fitters struggle to get a steering wheel pointing straight
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Steve advised you what you needed to get it spot on but to say that shim had a major effect on handling with no other changes would be a surprise.
As Steve has said most hunter operators in general tyre outlets are not fantastic , if you understand what your looking for and are with them when it's done then it's usually ok .
If your car feels better after fitting the shim then great.
Half the tyre fitters struggle to get a steering wheel pointing straight
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PH2 172
I`m pleased that you have felt an improvement by following my suggestion, but the OP has had 3 different cars today, & the rear end has been a constant,
but 3 different monkeys have had a go at it.
Clio 182 FF
I will be replacing the caliper sliders tomorrow, that's should then sort out the car pulling. Once that's done I may be able to feel the rear is out but atm I need to get the main problem sorted and move forward. Hopefully the latest reading by the third monkey is correct ? we'll see when the brake is sorted!
@harvsurrey I didnt say a major improvement, just 'better'. The car was smoother and more on path.
I would argue that ops beam is quite far out and if the other areas of the car are healthy, to get a close to parallel setup would help a lot even if he doesnt feel the difference the tyres will at least wear better. You could see the scrubbing on the nsr where it was too much toe in on mine
I would argue that ops beam is quite far out and if the other areas of the car are healthy, to get a close to parallel setup would help a lot even if he doesnt feel the difference the tyres will at least wear better. You could see the scrubbing on the nsr where it was too much toe in on mine
PH2 172
Except he did not centre the steering wheel before starting work.
Clio 182 FF
That's my end goal. I would like it all to be sorted out so like you say tyres wear better and car should feel more stable, I will be addressing the rear beam in the coming weeks once the caliper is sorted, thanks for your info and help
Clio 182 FF
How do you know this steve? I'm learning alot today thanks for all your input
Set it perfect , drive down a road of speed humps and catch a pot hole and check it again ..... you will then understand the slightly more cynical view .
However I do get you want it as perfect as you can
I have to start with a straight steering wheel as anything else drives me insane
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However I do get you want it as perfect as you can
I have to start with a straight steering wheel as anything else drives me insane
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