Renaultsport/Cooper S Rivalry

[gunnergibson]

most BWM made vehicles hold their value well.... you dont buy a car for money making purposes... its a risky game...depreciation and accidents....the best investment is a good cheap house to do up...rather than depreciate, the value increases.

and for the price of a mini coopers s works...i think id keep the clio and invest it in something else. Like turboing a 182..lol.

however if your a rich individual who can clearly afford to buy a host of cars then go for it

another problem i find with minis, is that they are very comon now.. but i have to agree.. i like the interior ... its as if Mr Ikea had an input on it

Roll on the Throtle bodied mark 1 !!!!




[Edited by gunnergibson on 19 April 2005 at 3:05pm]

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

^^^well said racinblue, maybe they do rattle but for 11 grand theres nothing else out there that will match them, as a brand new price that is.

at the end of the day youll lose money on any car at this level. not until you get into porker territory until youll be able to get anything out of a car.

 

[clean16v]

Chris-The tailpipes themselves are not bigger you are right, but the backboxes are bigger and noticeable from the.....er......back?

racinblue-50% over 2 years i would not say is standard! One of the main reasons i havent bought a 182 is because of the money i would lose on depreciation. A 172 went for 6.5k on here the other day, and the way Reno bring out new models so soon it doesnt help, 172, mk2 172, cup, 182, 182 cup, 192? Trophy? Even the V6 suffers from very bad depreciation. IMO this is the only bu tmajor flaw in the range.

 

[clean16v]

Gibo youre right, you dont buy cars to make money, but losing more money then you have to is silly! And would you honestly rather turbo a 182? Now that would be a waste of money!

Each to their own, but re-sale value of a car is a major issue for me, but i do change cars a lot!

 

[racinblue182]

Sorry, but they DONT lose 50% in two years, unless they have MEGA mileage or have been trashed - Ive been looking around for a few months and know the prices they go for.

172s over three years old maybe but not 2 years old......

 

[Darren S]

clean16v - Ive got to totally disagree with you on nearly all points m8!

The wifes Cooper S build quality is absolute crap. Its been taken back to Mini more times in two years than my Fiat Punto did in six. On top of that, BMWs attitude at the dealerships towards Mini owners is embarrassing - as if "oh look - heres another wannabe BMW owner, who cant quite reach the standard."

We all know 172s/182s etc lose value like a brick, but personally, Im not arsed when I only paid £12,200 on the road for it. Top flight Mini prices are a joke - and the more of them they churn out, the more the residuals get hit. Im not being funny, but I pass several Coopers and Cooper Ss daily. It was a novelty when Jain first got hers that other Mini drivers let onto you - but now, nobody gives a sh*t. They are everywhere. The revised VW Beetle, Round 2, methinks....

As for picking up a girl (assuming I wasnt married of course!) between a Cooper S and a 182 - there would be no contest. The 182 would win everytime. If I pulled up in a MCS, shed probably think I would be more interested in her bag, nails, shoes and the recent hair colour than her herself.

You simply cannot deny that the new Mini is totally and utterly camp.

D.

 

[clean16v]

Now the camp thing is a matter of taste mate, i certainly woudnt have a problem ownign a MCS! And the picking up a girl thing was said in jest anyway! I think the Mini has moved on from when it first came out and only rich wives drove them and waved at each other. But again this is IMO.

The build qaulity matter though, come on! You sit in a Mini and the doors shut properly, the trim is firm and doesnt rattle, it doesnt look cheap as the clio interiors do. The buttons are well designed rather then crappy bits of plastic etc, but this is what you pay for!

Im arguing against the clio on a clio forum anyway so not much point, as i said, each to their own, but personnally the residuals of a Clio put it completely out of the question for me, its like throwing money away.

 

[clean16v]

racinblue, my bad mate, it isnt quite 50% over two years, but it isnt far off, just on this forum alone there are 3x172s 2 years old that are struggling to shift at 7500..........

 

[RobFenn]

Like some people have said...most Cooper S owners arent boy racing chavs like you would get in a Clio so i havent seen many racing around. Also Tom, doesnt anyone in a hot hatch give it some beans against a rival?

I personally would never race a Clio, mostly because im of higher class, intelect etc...i just dont mix with paupers, apart from at Bluewater meets of course. Im quite happy in the serenity of my Minis retro styled cabin, complete with climate control, heated seats and Hardon Kardon stereo and one doesnt feel the need to prove ones self to a Renault loses all its worth as soon as its off the forecourt Clio..

-Rob

 

[blink172]

Why worry to much about what its going to be worth. Buy are car for what it can do, and get out there and do it.

 

[RobFenn]

Thats soul stirring stuff blink..

 

[harv172]

i really dont think the copper s "works" is all its made out to be. after seeing the damage my mate done to one in his CTR (with a full car, 5 people) against the works with only the driver in it.

surely if they were that fast a works with one person in it against a CTR with 5 people should be able to hammer it, not the case from where i was sitting anyway. made me laugh as the guy even had his JCW ( john copper works) private plate lol haha

 

[adamcmoran]

May sound daft but one of the reasons we didnt get a mini (other than the extra money required to get one up to the same spec as a 182) was that they have a stupidly small boot. Now I know for most people practicality does not come into it, but for us it did, and the mini boot is pathetic.

 

[RobFenn]

Well cleary he wasnt trying, it has 210+ bhp and masses of torque. It only has seemingly bad intial acceleration because of the gearing, but once in its stride it would make the difference.

Remember, despite people thinking its some sort of bloater, the Cooper S weighs only 50kg more than a Clio. Your mates CTR would of weighed, what, over 300kg more than standard? Lets not be completely retarded.

Adam - Yeah, youre right, not a car for families.

-Rob

 

[The Don]

i have written the same thing about this so many times on here. i have owned a williams and 3 minis, one of which was a cooper s. any one who thinks they can beat a cooper s in a standard valver is having a laugh. i am sorry if that isnt what people on here want to read but its true. it may set the cat amoungst the pigeons but i dont care. i personally think its a fantastic car. thats why it won award after award. it gets slated on here as its seen as a rival to the clio, thus making it recieve all sorts of negative comments. i loved mine and was sad to see it go. after the cooper i had a clio cup and then a 182. those two were faster but not by much. i am not biased towards either of the cars but i think the mini handled absolutely brilliantly. better than the clios. the tales of the races with cooper ss and cooper works make me laugh. they are rubbish unless they are planned races. how do you know how much they were giving it? if they are so sh*t compared to the clio, why are they always being slated on here? i dont see any clio vs fiat panda threads. leave them alone. they are quality cars and are not all driven by stuck up tw*ts.

[Edited by The Don on 19 April 2005 at 4:58pm]

oh, and another thing, when i owned my mini(s) i used to go on various mini sites and when the 182 came out there was a similar discussion but every one on there showed respect and said how much they liked the 172 and cups. maybe that says something about the average mini driver. 172/ cup/182/ cooper s are all quite close in speed. 16valvers. sorry, but your not.

 

[blink172]

4 cars seperated by half a second and around £8-10k. Its the same as every arguement you hear on here. I thrashed a so and so, but you can bet the person you beat didnt even know he was racing or was stuck in the wrong gear.

 

[Lagerlout]

Ive never understood the big deal with the mini interiors. It looks to me as though its been made (and designed) by fisher price. And my missuss mums cooper has more creaks and rattles than her 1.2 Clio...

 

[jon_r]

Still rather have a Cooper S works than a Clio, sorry.

And Rob, lol!

 

[Mondial172]

"I wanted a BMW but couldnt afford a real german one" you mean? Hate that type of person

JONGSR4 did a pretty good job on a Cooper S in his standard 120bhp VTS. I also remember showing a Mini One a clean pair of heals in my standard VTR which has the same 90bhp. Wouldnt have thought a Cooper is much quicker than a VTR. To be fair though the Minis engine proberbly weights as much as a Saxo.

Still like the Cooper S but wouldnt buy one - unless it was for my girlfriend after a lotto win.

 

[clean16v]

coopers are w**k, cooper s aint that special either, cooper s works is a different thing altogether

 

[Lagerlout]

Quote: Originally posted by jon_r on 19 April 2005


Still rather have a Cooper S works than a Clio, sorry.

And Rob, lol!

Same here. Wish I had that kind of cash....

 

[gazcaddy]

182 is about 4 secs faster to 100 than the MCS, quite a big difference considering the MCS is about 5k more expensive when specced up to the same as the 182

 

[D-CUP]

I think you should read the recent comparison in Evo. Cooper S beat 182 to 100.

 

[alex19]

for a car with a supercharged engine its a bit pants really isnt it! why not pay to put a supercharger on a 182 and then compare!

 

[jaf78]

I think the mini cooper S is a decent car, but theyre overpriced and no-one can doubt theyre a bit on the gay side. Ask any girl what car shed like and itd be a mini cooper S. As stated above the cooper S convertible just takes an already camp car to a whole new level of campness.

If the majority of cooper S owners bought them because they were fast or had a supercharger then fair enough, but they dont. A mini cooper S is a fashion accessory for 30-something women. IMO of course.

 

[Munson]

You drive a new Mini - youre gay. Period. Bi-curious at best.

 

[jonnyboy]

mini drivers are either gay or schoolteachers I have never had a race with a cooperS you can never get one, people buy them to pose in and try to regain their lost youth. CooperS are a fasion accessory not a serious car.

 

[clean16v]

lol

 

[Munson]

I would willingly have a play with any S, and a blast with any JCW (but with some respect)

 

[clean16v]

Cooper S are whack, not the same car as a JCW, and i have no doubt the differences between a 182 and a JCW would be minimal on the road. But when it comes to build quality, design, residuals, image, options and generally a better car, i know what i would choose, the MINI runs away with it. But this is only IMO. From a sheer drivers point of view, a 182 is no doubt the winner, but if that was the only criteria you looked at when buying a car, youd all be driving the Williams

 

[D-CUP]

Cooper S is very easily tuneable. You can buy DIY chip upgrades that you upload yourself for £50 which give a claimed extra 20-30 bhp. Pulley changes are also good value.

 

[MarkCup]

Quote: Originally posted by Roy Munson on 19 April 2005

You drive a new Mini - youre gay. Period. Bi-curious at best.

PMSL

 

[gazcaddy]

Quote: Originally posted by D-CUP on 19 April 2005

I think you should read the recent comparison in Evo. Cooper S beat 182 to 100.

Yeah read that but in a previous evo test and autocar the 182 is way quicker and it should be it has more power and weighs less

 

[harv172]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 19 April 2005


Well cleary he wasnt trying, it has 210+ bhp and masses of torque. It only has seemingly bad intial acceleration because of the gearing, but once in its stride it would make the difference.

Remember, despite people thinking its some sort of bloater, the Cooper S weighs only 50kg more than a Clio. Your mates CTR would of weighed, what, over 300kg more than standard? Lets not be completely retarded.

Adam - Yeah, youre right, not a car for families.

-Rob

well the way the engine was screaming and the look on the guys face as we came past would suggest that he was trying. the only thing completely retarded would be paying that much cash for something SLOWER than a CTR with 5 people in it.

 

[dudelove]

Quote: Originally posted by Dermy on 17 April 2005
I noticed that too, mini drivers always think they are better than everyone lol, earlier today a red sporty one, cooper or something never noticed what model tbh, tried to get ahead of me at lights i floored it in second and bye bye mini lol, the 1.4 is quick in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quicker than i thought it would be for a small engine also anyone noticed that nova sr drivers think they can beat anything??


If it was anything other than a mini one, he wasnt trying.

Mate at work has a Cooper and it shafts my RT any day of the week

 

[Darren S]

What irritates me the most is the mis-conseption of the Mini being on some ivory tower of greatness. Its not. I know of four people (including my wife) with different specs of Minis. All but one has had serious problems with it - one so bad that he just wants rid of it..... period.

My 182 clunks and bangs with the engine mounts, etc. Damn right, it pisses me off, but for the money there is no other complete all-rounder of a car. The Works Minis, like I said previously are just a marketing campaign - aimed solely at the people daft enough to also consider high-end, all singing, all dancing Golf GTis - and pay for them. It just makes me laugh how Mini owners think after three years, their car will have devalued by £50. It doesnt work like that - this side of a McLaren Mercedes or Ferrari Enzo.

What were looking at here is two completely opposite views of what people want from a car. I went for the 182 simply because nothing could match it in its price bracket. If the 182 cost £18k then it would be a piss-take. I bought into what the car can do and what it does do (i.e put a bloody big smile on my face). Ive yet to hear of a Mini owner opting for their car because of its dynamics and/or driving credentials. Im not knocking the fact that it is a capable car, just that people tend to be sucked into the marketing/promo and questionable image of the thing.

It is not a Paddy Hopkirk replica. It does not have 60s cool. It doesnt even have the stigma of being a proper British car. With an archaic Mexican sourced engine, a rear suspension setup that even BMW admit to being overly expensive and money-wasting - just what exactly is the Mini of today?

Each to their own though - and seriously, I hope Mini owners on here just do not have the same issues and problems of other Minis Ive heard about.

Best of luck chaps...

D.

 

[clean16v]

lmao at you guys, a JCW has 210bhp and weighs 1100kg (IIRC) it IS faster then 172s, and it would be marginal with a 182/CTR. End of. No "my mate raced one" nonsense, these are FACTS.

 

[gazcaddy]

Quote: Originally posted by clean16v on 19 April 2005


lmao at you guys, a JCW has 210bhp and weighs 1100kg (IIRC) it IS faster then 172s, and it would be marginal with a 182/CTR. End of. No "my mate raced one" nonsense, these are FACTS.









http://www.whatcar.com/RoadTest_FullData.asp?DL=0&RT=181785http://www.whatcar.com/RoadTest_FullData.asp?DL=0&RT=181785

standard MCS weighs 1215kg and i assume thats without all the extra, i agree it would be close between a 182, CTR and Cooper S works

 

[MarkCup]

Quote: Originally posted by gazcaddy on 19 April 2005

Quote: Originally posted by clean16v on 19 April 2005


lmao at you guys, a JCW has 210bhp and weighs 1100kg (IIRC) it IS faster then 172s, and it would be marginal with a 182/CTR. End of. No "my mate raced one" nonsense, these are FACTS.










http://www.whatcar.com/RoadTest_FullData.asp?DL=0&RT=181785http://www.whatcar.com/RoadTest_FullData.asp?DL=0&RT=181785

standard MCS weighs 1215kg and i assume thats without all the extra, i agree it would be close between a 182, CTR and Cooper S works

Which is almost 200kgs more than a 172 Cup. Dont you think carrying around the equivalent (sp?) of a full oil drum, or about 30 stone would affect its acceleration?

And the JCW have only just started getting 210bhp havent they? Before that they were 197/200 werent they?

Tell you what...why dont we arrange a joint meet, Cliosport and JCW owners club, and then everyone can flop their dicks out and we can settle it once and for all...thats what it comes down to...doesnt it?




[Edited by MarkCup on 19 April 2005 at 10:31pm]

 

[adamcmoran]

Quote: Originally posted by D-CUP on 19 April 2005

I think you should read the recent comparison in Evo. Cooper S beat 182 to 100.

That is true, by 0.3 of a second. Round the track though it was Mini 94.60 seconds and 182 93.10 seconds.

Group result was 182 five stars, MCS four & half stars.

I think they are both great cars, enjoyed driving both on the test drives we went on. But in the end we went for a 182 for price and practicality reasons.

Some of the less constructive comments on debates like this do make me laugh. I remember reading the same debate on Mini2 a while ago, they slated the 182, there was no respect there at all.




[Edited by adamcmoran on 19 April 2005 at 11:25pm]