The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**

[Nafoff]

does your master cylinder have 2 or 4 ports?

4

 

[vroomtshh]

4

It's a cup cylinder then. I think they've given you 2 tees by mistake

 

[Nafoff]

It's a cup cylinder then. I think they've given you 2 tees by mistake

That was my initial thought, thank you for supporting that.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:

After thinking I didn't have the brake lines set-up right and referencing the previous images I got in contact with Mitch Plowman at Pro-line. Mitch confirmed my thoughts that I may have a T-piece too many and advised on how to fit (this matched @robzracing image I previously referenced). With this information I went back out to the car tonight and re-routed the lines to match - super neat, very glad I went for the black limes (not fussy)

I do have a few concerns though...
With the lines like this, and matching the interior line to this outer line it seems like I have some length too play with - almost too much...
The same can not be said though for the drivers side front line, I am very confident that this is too short, especially when compared to the passenger side...

Drivers side front.

in comparison to the passenger side front.

I also thought I had an issue with the rears being too short, but this was just because the rear axle is dropped and the suspension on full extension. I jacked the rear axle back up a bit and supported it with a couple axle stands and it looks like it will be alright - I just may need to watch this when the car is up on stands in future as I am sure it won't be good for the lines being that tense.

So I have a couple spares/extras (shown above) and from my investigation a couple other bits I need to address (nut for rear line, new drivers side front line and also a blank for the space master cylinder port). These other bits I need to speak to Mitch about, but he seems cool with this - hopefully this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

 

[robzracing]

Surely the lines coming into the front wheel wells should have straight end fittings on them? If you are using the standard set up they should run to the brackets in the wheel arch and from connect to separate braided lines that run to the calipers.
Although your kit looks quite different to mine. The only right angle fittings on my lines were for the rear calipers and they went straight through the rear arches to the tee piece in the centre. No bulkhead fittings. Maybe Mitch has revised the kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Usr117063]

Have the 90 degree coming out the mc for o/s front?

 

[JamesBryan]

I suspect it is as Rob said. They run to brackets in the arch like oem and then separate braided lines to the caliper.

It looks like you have fitted the lines the wrong way round. The ends you have currently in the master cylinder should be the ones that go to the arches.

 

[Nafoff]

Surely the lines coming into the front wheel wells should have straight end fittings on them? If you are using the standard set up they should run to the brackets in the wheel arch and from connect to separate braided lines that run to the calipers.
Although your kit looks quite different to mine. The only right angle fittings on my lines were for the rear calipers and they went straight through the rear arches to the tee piece in the centre. No bulkhead fittings. Maybe Mitch has revised the kit.

]

I suspect it is as Rob said. They run to brackets in the arch like oem and then separate braided lines to the caliper. It looks like you have fitted the lines the wrong way round. The ends you have currently in the master cylinder should be the ones that go to the arches.

I am indeed currently running the standard set-up. I thought these lines ran all the way to the callipers. But if not I do still have my Goodridge front lines.
I ran the lines with the angles at the calliper ends as that is how the rears went, so I assumed probably wrongly that the fronts were the same.

I believe you can choose straight through lines or bulkhead fittings, that may be the reason they are slightly different.
I am chatting with Mitch shortly so will confirm

 

[JamesBryan]

It just makes sense to me that having a seperate braided line to the caliper would work better.

Say if you had a problem with the caliper or the hose got damaged, you could just remove it including shorter braided hose rather than the whole line all the way back to the MC.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
So Mitch confirmed that there are separate lines to the calliper. He said you can run the lines either way around but it would be easier to run the straight fittings at the calliper end (I think he was being polite). So I popped out and just had a quick change around.

Drivers side (all good now)

Passenger side

Looks ok from this angle, but it does seem very very long.... I think I may have to be clever with how I route and clip it

Mitch has been great with his service answering calls at any time, he has no issues or questions with regards to sending the extra nut and Master cylinder blank so once they are received we are all good.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
Managed to get a fair bit of time in on the car today. Again things seem to be moving slowly, even things like p-clipping the lines is a 4-stage gig, measure/mark - drill hole/clean up - paint/dry - p-clip/rivet but they are moving forward and with quite visual changes like today it feels good.

So as a couple people rightfully said previously the front brake lines run to independent braided lines once they get to the arch. I still had my Goodridge lines aside in my "to sale" box so these were dug out and trial fitted (I am aware I need the other park of the fitting), lucky they match the colour scheme.

Next up was to finalise routing and to start clipping the interior loom lines. I ran the rear loom down the outside side of the passenger side, p-clipped it and then ran it inside the rear 3/4, it then comes out by the rear light plugs in before running back inside shells rear panel and across to the other rear light. I popped in the rear lights so I could check the lines lengths. I also fitted the areocatch brackets just to clear up my garage from packaging....

I then loved to the front of the car. I need to have the front lights in to check the loom and to be able to check the loom is all good so as per every other area of the car before I fit anything I give it a good 3-part polish/wax protection, this takes time but this is the best time to do it - so both front corners were done before then cleaning up the fitting brackets and fitting the re-worked front lights. Again the aerocatch brakets were fitted to clear up all the packaging in my garage.

I started to look at p-clipping the front loom also but it needs a lot more holes drilled, probably an evening job this week - but its looking good.

Really happy with how it is going, with the adaptive of the lights it really feels like it is coming back together. Need to get a lot more time on it...

 

[KitsonRis]

How clean/empty is the engine bay going? Is it just going to be bare minimum with everything relocated or going back to “standard”?

 

[Nafoff]

How clean/empty is the engine bay going? Is it just going to be bare minimum with everything relocated or going back to “standard”?

The bare minimum is going back in for ease, not for show and deffo knowhere near standard.

 

[KitsonRis]

Nice. I was just wondering as I was at Retro arises the weekend and there were show cars with clean engine bays but also track toys with the same. Tbh the nicer ones were the track cars as it was still functional and not OTT with everything removed. Looked a lot more professional and purposeful.

 

[Nafoff]

FUEL LINE ROUTING

So before I finalise where I route my brakelines across the bulkhead I need to decide where my fuel line will come into the engine bay and it would be great to hear any advice.

I am running the fuel line through the interior (passenger side of exhaust tunnel) and it will then go through the bulkhead, with a bulkhead connector - this is where I am looking for advice experience.

I think I have seen people run it through the scuttle panel first and then out through the a/c panel, any readon for this?

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
Outstanding parts from Pro-line turned up yesterday along with some sweetners.... I could now look at finalising routing.

I must say I am glad I am being OCD about this and checking everything rather than just going gung-ho at it. It seems the brake line saga continues slightly.
I did a bit more looking around/research tonight before and whilst I was working on the car about the rear lines (arch side) as it was playing on my mind that the wheel may catch them. I was going to run them as so:

Just holding this is place and looking at it I was pretty convinced this was going to foul the wheel. What better way to test...

Sure enough... that isn't going to work at all.
I looked up various other peoples executions and found the images below, it appears everyone seems to have something different - some have no bulkhead fittings (allowing them more line in the arch and the ability to clip) and then the ones that do seem to have 90deg fittings in the arch (which I think would have worked in my case) but I have neither.

My execution to this possibly is to run the lines behind the rear shock and up into the boot floor (seen below). I will have to give enough space that when the rear beam is in travel it won't hitch it - but does anyone think this is a bad idea for any reason?

Running it this way also means that inside the lines won't be able to sit flat, well at least not at the rear bulkheads. Really interested to her anyones thoughts on this?

 

[Usr117063]

My first line setup was through the boot and @Tomotek does so too. Granted I got the idea from him ?

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
With above in mind I set to running the interior brake lines. I wanted to get these all marked up and taped before I run the fuel lines I will then do the same for the fuel lines and then drill and mount them all together. (images shown from the rear to the front)

Rear (spare wheel area)

Rear (rear seat area)

Front (exhaust tunnel)

Front (bulkhead area)

Engine bay

In relation to my previous post on the fuel line routing and after some research I plan to run the fuel line into the rear drivers side footwell, across (towards the passenger rear footwell) to then turn down the exhaust tunnel. This will then be clipped between the brake lines and the passenger seat/foot plate on the side of the exhaust tunnel - nice and out of the way.

It will then head up the bulkhead and through the bulkhead into the scuttle panel, once in the scuttle panel it will head across to the drivers side arch and then come out right by the suspension turret, from looking at pictures this seems lovely and out of the way and looks like it will swing nicely into the area needed (as long as I have the length there)... hopefully this won't be like the brake line saga...

 

[Nafoff]

My first line setup was through the boot and @Tomotek does so too. Granted I got the idea from him ?

I spotted this, but his is run in-front of the rear shock, rather than behind.

 

[robzracing]

FUEL LINE ROUTING

So before I finalise where I route my brakelines across the bulkhead I need to decide where my fuel line will come into the engine bay and it would be great to hear any advice.

I am running the fuel line through the interior (passenger side of exhaust tunnel) and it will then go through the bulkhead, with a bulkhead connector - this is where I am looking for advice experience.

I think I have seen people run it through the scuttle panel first and then out through the a/c panel, any readon for this?

I've run mine fuel lines pretty much as you suggest here. Along the passenger side of exhaust tunnel and then up into the skuttle just beside the washer bottle. They then run across to the drivers side in the scuttle and out of the AC panel before going to the fuel regulator mounted in front of the off side turret.

Using AN6 line there's just enough space to do this (I'm also using a return line) but it was too tight to get the lines further over to the off side to come through the other side of the turret. (if that makes sense)

 

[robzracing]

UPDATE:
Outstanding parts from Pro-line turned up yesterday along with some sweetners.... I could now look at finalising routing.

View attachment 1382690

I must say I am glad I am being OCD about this and checking everything rather than just going gung-ho at it. It seems the brake line saga continues slightly.
I did a bit more looking around/research tonight before and whilst I was working on the car about the rear lines (arch side) as it was playing on my mind that the wheel may catch them. I was going to run them as so:

View attachment 1382691

Just holding this is place and looking at it I was pretty convinced this was going to foul the wheel. What better way to test...

View attachment 1382692

Sure enough... that isn't going to work at all.
I looked up various other peoples executions and found the images below, it appears everyone seems to have something different - some have no bulkhead fittings (allowing them more line in the arch and the ability to clip) and then the ones that do seem to have 90deg fittings in the arch (which I think would have worked in my case) but I have neither.

View attachment 1382693

My execution to this possibly is to run the lines behind the rear shock and up into the boot floor (seen below). I will have to give enough space that when the rear beam is in travel it won't hitch it - but does anyone think this is a bad idea for any reason?

View attachment 1382696
View attachment 1382697

Running it this way also means that inside the lines won't be able to sit flat, well at least not at the rear bulkheads. Really interested to her anyones thoughts on this?

Mine run around the front of the shock and even with coilovers I haven't had any rubbing. Although I don't have the bulkhead fitting which does allow the line to run a bit tighter.

Not sure I would want those fittings sticking up in the boot floor like that. If you change them for elbowed ones it would work though.

I can get a better picture if you need it and any measurements if it helps.

 

[Nafoff]

I've run mine fuel lines pretty much as you suggest here. Along the passenger side of exhaust tunnel and then up into the skuttle just beside the washer bottle. They then run across to the drivers side in the scuttle and out of the AC panel before going to the fuel regulator mounted in front of the off side turret.

Using AN6 line there's just enough space to do this (I'm also using a return line) but it was too tight to get the lines further over to the off side to come through the other side of the turret. (if that makes sense)
View attachment 1382729

I wasn’t planning a fuel regulator but this is a very very neat job. Glad this routing will work. I will just need to check the length is there.... ooohhh errrr

Mine run around the front of the shock and even with coilovers I haven't had any rubbing. Although I don't have the bulkhead fitting which does allow the line to run a bit tighter.

Not sure I would want those fittings sticking up in the boot floor like that. If you change them for elbowed ones it would work though.

I noticed pretty much everybodies ran around the front of the shocks, but these simply won’t go. I must admit I was less fussed about the interior loops than I was about the external loops (more concerned about catching).

I have messaged Mitch at Pro-line again, I think I just need a 90deg somewhere, either arch or interior side and then I can execute it either way.

 

[Nafoff]

I've run mine fuel lines pretty much as you suggest here. Along the passenger side of exhaust tunnel and then up into the skuttle just beside the washer bottle. They then run across to the drivers side in the scuttle and out of the AC panel before going to the fuel regulator mounted in front of the off side turret.

Using AN6 line there's just enough space to do this (I'm also using a return line) but it was too tight to get the lines further over to the off side to come through the other side of the turret. (if that makes sense)
View attachment 1382729

Do you advise a regulator?
Proper amateur question but what does it actually do?

 

[robzracing]

Do you advise a regulator?
Proper amateur question but what does it actually do?

Depends what set up on the engine you're running. I'm on ITBs so I can control fuel pressure with the return line as I have a high pressure pump on my swirl pot assembly. If you're using the standard intake and Throttle body you'll either have a regulator on the fuel rail (early 172 set up) or there is a regulator in the lift pump assembly in the tank.

 

[Pro-Line Motorsport]

Looking great Neil, I have obviously now signed up to this forum and plan a dedicated section for any help/advice needed for any of our products.

As you know though..I'm also available any time via telephone.

Watch this space

 

[Nafoff]

Depends what set up on the engine you're running. I'm on ITBs so I can control fuel pressure with the return line as I have a high pressure pump on my swirl pot assembly. If you're using the standard intake and Throttle body you'll either have a regulator on the fuel rail (early 172 set up) or there is a regulator in the lift pump assembly in the tank.

I am running full phase 1 fuel set-up (tank, pump etc) which means only the one line. Engine wise it is ITB's and mild cam's

Looking great Neil, I have obviously now signed up to this forum and plan a dedicated section for any help/advice needed for any of our products.
As you know though..I'm also available any time via telephone.
Watch this space

Sounds like a good idea Mitch, any support to the customer I am sure would be welcome.
As you say you are available on the phone (which has been great, always polite and super helpful) but everybody needs there own personal space too.

 

[robzracing]

I am running full phase 1 fuel set-up (tank, pump etc) which means only the one line. Engine wise it is ITB's and mild cam's

I must admit I though all phase ones had a return line and regulator on the fuel rail. That being the case you will need a FPR because your in tank pump won't have one.
If you are running a non return system then you should have the regulator in the pump but you will just be limited to the 3bar it is set at.

 

[Nafoff]

I must admit I though all phase ones had a return line and regulator on the fuel rail. That being the case you will need a FPR because your in tank pump won't have one.
If you are running a non return system then you should have the regulator in the pump but you will just be limited to the 3bar it is set at.

Running a Jenvey fuel rail to go with the ITB's wasn't an issue previously (when the line was under the car) should this make a difference really?

 

[robzracing]

Running a Jenvey fuel rail to go with the ITB's wasn't an issue previously (when the line was under the car) should this make a difference really?

No I don't think it will. 3 bar fuel pressure is all you need anyway and the dead head system helps to prevent fuel surge too.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
With the the rear brake lines away and waiting for these to come back I turned my attention to the couple of small jobs I needed to do on the engine (as once the lines are done it will be ready to go back in the bay).

The engine was serviced with a new cambelt a few months back, the sump was also changed, but the gasket wasn't - so tonight that was changed and all the bolts re-torqued back up in order.

Next up was fitting the Cup racer alternator bracket. This was given to me again by Bigash and with it being so much sleeker and lighter than the original mount I looked at mounting this up.

In mock-up it didn't go totally to plan and I couldn't work out why, but the alternator torque mount would not align.

I have done a bit of research and various people are suggesting a couple washers behind the top (block mount) will solve this, but I do need to watch for this cup race lower mount snapping the lugs off the block - hmmmmmmmm not quite sure on that

 

[Nafoff]

No I don't think it will. 3 bar fuel pressure is all you need anyway and the dead head system helps to prevent fuel surge too.

I probably won't get anywhere near the performance of the car anyways... ha

 

[Chambers_RS]

I’ve just got a similar setup but mine has an extra part with it. I haven’t tried fitted mine yet. Maybe get time over the weekend but this is what I’ve got.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Different view of it

 

[Nafoff]

View attachment 1383941
Different view of it

That looks pretty different again, you have a torque bolt, almost looks like a cross between the original mount and the one I posted. I wonder if the block mount is different to the originals.

Do you know what this was from?

 

[Chambers_RS]

Mine might be the Volvo part tbf looking at yours.
I’d get a nice aluminium spacer made to space the top alternator mounting out a bit.
Unless you have the wrong alternator for that mount maybe? You using a cup one or air con one? I know the mounting point on the is different.

 

[Nafoff]

Mine might be the Volvo part tbf looking at yours.
I’d get a nice aluminium spacer made to space the top alternator mounting out a bit.
Unless you have the wrong alternator for that mount maybe? You using a cup one or air con one? I know the mounting point on the is different.

I think that may be a better idea rather than just using a couple of washers. Luckily my neighbour is an alloy machinist, it just may cost a fair bit.

Yep cup alternator

 

[Chambers_RS]

I think that may be a better idea rather than just using a couple of washers. Luckily my neighbour is an alloy machinist, it just may cost a fair bit.

Yep cup alternator

Did the cup racers run the cup alternator?

 

[Nafoff]

Did the cup racers run the cup alternator?

Somebody on that thing ‘facebook?’ said the cup racers used different block mounts and different alternators

 

[Chambers_RS]

Somebody on that thing ‘facebook?’ said the cup racers used different block mounts and different alternators

Was thinking this with them running EHPAS system.
Looking at it, it seems a simple fix just custom mount maybe. Unless Rsport can supply you the cup racer top mount and hope it will work

 

[Chambers_RS]