V6 engine in the front of a 172 Clio

[g18llo]

not really a good comparison.

Saloon vs hatch?

WRX is by no means a car to take as a base for a good handling car, its positively bland and you have to be super aggressive to have any fun.

The weight offset on the WRX isnt as large due to the primarly wheel base, and F/R split. Plus the polar moment is not in the same place as a fwd clio.

Take a alfa 147 GTA.........fast......BUT, prime example of understeer, again you have to be pretty brutal to get it to tuck in.

But yea, it could be fast......but not keeping the OE suspension setup, you'd have to pretty much re-engineer the basic package to get the thing to be anywhere near neutral.

it certainly wont be a drivers car, fast in a lazy way, but not my cup of tea.....maybe yours.

I'm confused now - my comparison proves that having additional weight isn't necessarily detrimental to the handling provided the issue of suspension is addressed.

If you need to apply the concept to a hatch, look at the additional 300kg Lancia put over the front axle of the Delta, didn't stop it from winning 6 WRC titles, nor did it stop it from being still one of the best handling cars of all time.

Regards

 

[g18llo]

the problem with clio will be that it will have so much extra weight in the front and nothing to balance it out in the back and it already is quite front heavy, hence lifting of the rear wheel! lancia delta is a different car, different chassis, therefore cant compare, so no, point not proven!

Anyone with a basic knowledge of suspension/car set-up would clearly see that your argument has little or no merit.

Regards

 

[BenR]

I'm confused now - my comparison proves that having additional weight isn't necessarily detrimental to the handling provided the issue of suspension is addressed.

If you need to apply the concept to a hatch, look at the additional 300kg Lancia put over the front axle of the Delta, didn't stop it from winning 6 WRC titles, nor did it stop it from being still one of the best handling cars of all time.

Regards

We'll agree to disagree on what we thing is good handling then, cause i think the delta is a POS.

And there will be no point talking about any rearward power bia on an AWD system used in WRC competition.

ANY nose heavy or AWD vehicle, when you enter an apex smoothly with trailing throttle, will understeer.........unless you take substantial efforts to make the rear very lively.

The clio as it stands in std trim has extreem amounts of weight shift engineered in to get the nylon POS tyres to grab.............with a v6 in the front, you'll be tripod'ing just parking the car. lol

 

[g18llo]

We'll agree to disagree on what we thing is good handling then, cause i think the delta is a POS.

And there will be no point talking about any rearward power bia on an AWD system used in WRC competition.

ANY nose heavy or AWD vehicle, when you enter an apex smoothly with trailing throttle, will understeer.........unless you take substantial efforts to make the rear very lively.

The clio as it stands in std trim has extreem amounts of weight shift engineered in to get the nylon POS tyres to grab.............with a v6 in the front, you'll be tripod'ing just parking the car. lol

I'm simply lost for words.

 

[BenR]

and i bid you goodnight friend.

 

[stu8v]

I'm simply lost for words.

Lots of ignorant (to other makes/models) people on here......

It is amusing that one of the icons is described as a POS :S

 

[matty w]

Lots of ignorant (to other makes/models) people on here......

It is amusing that one of the icons is described as a POS :S

the delta is a legend,the evo II with wider track and Torsen torque biasing diff had a brilliant level of balance and grip

 

[stu8v]

the delta is a legend,the evo II with wider track and Torsen torque biasing diff had a brilliant level of balance and grip

All integrales had torsen rear diffs , the Evo 1 and 2 had wider track than 8/16v.

I could bore you with more details but it would be lost on most of the people that freqeunt this board.

 

[matty w]

All integrales had torsen rear diffs , the Evo 1 and 2 had wider track than 8/16v.

I could bore you with more details but it would be lost on most of the people that freqeunt this board.

i thought they put the wider track on the evo 2 when they was competing against the cosworth's,theres some very narrow minded people on here stu,i've got an interest in cars not just renaults

 

[g18llo]

i thought they put the wider track on the evo 2 when they was competing against the cosworth's,theres some very narrow minded people on here stu,i've got an interest in cars not just renaults

Stu is generally always spot-on, and with regards to the wider track (which appeared first on the Evo1), he's right again!

Regards

 

[matty w]

Stu is generally always spot-on, and with regards to the wider track (which appeared first on the Evo1), he's right again!

Regards

Taken from PPC
Earlier cars differed by having the drive biased towards the front ,but the fight against the cosworths on asphalt saw lancia change this and widen the track

 

[SimonV6]

What is the weight of a 3.0 V6 engine and a 2.0 4 from the 182? would love to know as a matter of interest



Simon

 

[g18llo]

Taken from PPC
Earlier cars differed by having the drive biased towards the front ,but the fight against the cosworths on asphalt saw lancia change this and widen the track

Torque bias changed between the 8v and 16v (which had identical bodies), but it remained constant between the 16v and Evo1 (the Evo1 having the wider front/rear track, different body).

8v - 56% front, 44% rear.
16v - 47% front, 53% rear.
Evo 1 - 47% to front, 53% rear.

Incidentally, Lancia never rallied the Evo1, that was a 'privateer' effort from the Jolly Club.

Regards

 

[172 Dave]

Out of curiosity again what was the UR Quattro split?

 

[stu8v]

50/50

 

[172 Dave]

I soooooooo always wanted to drive a UR, think it was being a kid of the eighties and having the Lombard RAC go past my back fence every year!

 

[stu8v]

I'm still on the lookout for a good lotus sunbeam or ti

 

[stu8v]

me at castle combe,

 

[172 Dave]

Castle Coombe = Spankingly good circuit!

 

[Adam]

this topic has been an interesting read..........cool

 

[matty w]

me at castle combe,

stu all i can say is thats the tits