Quote: Originally posted by aaronc on 15 December 2004
<<Cue BenH>>>
LOL!
Im starting to feel a bit old now as I seem to have seen this debate hundreds of times! Ive owned mint examples of both...
My Valver was a ticket to ride in the world of "drivers" cars. Hot hatches dont get that much more able after this point - people argue all day about comments like this, but really... do they really? Double the bhp (like some mega-hatches do) and you dont get a car that is clearly more able than a 16V and yet still has the perfect balance of power and handling.
Its interesting that people still, after all these years, look at something like the eternal 16V -v- Williams debate from the point of view of power. Perhaps the 172 Cup confused matters as well - because we now see people thinking of the Williams as a fractionally more focused 16V for the discerning enthusuast. It was more than that, from either perspective.
The Willy was really a one-off - like the 172 Cup or V6, but in a different way. What Renault did here was to go to some really odd and expensive lengths to improve over the "basic" 16V - really odd stuff like a double-skinned subframe or greater bias to the rear brakes. Plus of course the low-volume F7R engine and all the other gubbins. Seeped in rally glory anyway, the Clio emerged further focused, but also given a legendarily misleading monicker and highly public row over its limited edition status. It was meant to be a homologation special, but is remembered in pub folklore for different reasons.
When I bought No.123 I was expecting a noisier, more basic Valver with a bit more poke. What I got was something that really blew me away. Regrettably, No.123 and I parted company after a mere 10 months (compared to three times that with my Valver), but I can remember almost every drive. There is nothing Ive since driven that mixes ability and soul so well.
Ive now driven 172s and 182s and theres just something not quite there (although the 182 test drive was getting damn close) - perhaps its my own misty-eyed views, but Im sure Im not alone in thinking this. Ill no doubt end up with a 182 now that the lease car payments have started flowing in, but I reckon when said 182 departs there wont be as many tears as when the 16V or Willy left.
As for whether Id prefer a 16V or Willy... ask anyone else whos had a good example of both and Im sure the answer will be the same.