what best springs for handling not look 182 ff

[imprezaworks]

How old are you btw

 

[klm182]

it was ment to read whats the best springs for handling, not looks for a 182 ff

 

[imprezaworks]

So cooksports or sportlones then

 

[Lawro]

This thread is mind boggling.. As mentioned many times previously either Eibach Sportlines or CookSport Springs. If you want to change your dampers get a Sachs setup from the trophy.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

i was with asda tpft,i found another insurer cheaper and fully comp.(i was told by 2 garages i had did not have cup pack 182)so i thought add get full koni yellow and sportlines. cause the car handle rubbish.i changed insurers and stated i will be up grading my suspension.they said fine the price is the same we just send u forms out to fill in the mods.i took wheel of to measure spacings before i ordered 4 koni yellow.i found out i already had cup packs(god if this is a cup god help the standard ones) so i called my insurance company and said i may not want to upgrade suspension i mite just get new oem dampers and springs ,they said if i dont change the springs or dampers from oem i have to pay £600 more cause when i took out the policy it was for modified cars.so i can put any mods on it i guess i wont have to pay extra, its backwards i knowits with adrain flux.

Are you sure you've got that right ? Your insurance goes up if you've got OEM shocks and springs and goes down if you've got aftermarket suspension ? I've never heard anything like it in my life . :S

 

[Aluco]

I don't even... WHAT?

Did you drink paint thinner? :dapprove:

 

[Lawro]

I don't even... WHAT?

Did you drink paint thinner? :dapprove:

FLOL!

 

[Thrust-Rated]

Lol
Just calm down a bit
Buy yourself some cooksport or eibach sportline springs and your done.

 

[Daniel]

Who is this guy?! Seriously??

What an ill mannered turd.

 

[Adamm.]

^^ Flol!

A bit defensive.

 

[Thrust-Rated]

I'm going to sleep. Do what you want

 

[MartinR]

This thread is mind boggling.. As mentioned many times previously either Eibach Sportlines or CookSport Springs. If you want to change your dampers get a Sachs setup from the trophy.

Or koni yellows but only for non 182cup fitment (54mm)

 

[klm182]

yes its crazy i no , been on phone for hours over it ,i think they are drinking paint thinner,they wont bugde on it.its either replace the standard suspension within 2 months or i have to pay double.i cant cancel cause they charge you. your welcome to contact them and ask.i can give you there number,let them explain to you.

Are you sure you've got that right ? Your insurance goes up if you've got OEM shocks and springs and goes down if you've got aftermarket suspension ? I've never heard anything like it in my life . :S

 

[klm182]

anyway am getting sportlines just ordering them,thanks for all your advice,all this messing over a few springs the mind boggles.i need advice of tyres soon ha ha,so get ready.

 

[Adamm.]

Do a search on tyres first as theres lots of threads on them.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

i was with asda tpft,i found another insurer cheaper and fully comp.(i was told by 2 garages i had did not have cup pack 182)so i thought add get full koni yellow and sportlines. cause the car handle rubbish.i changed insurers and stated i will be up grading my suspension.they said fine the price is the same we just send u forms out to fill in the mods.i took wheel of to measure spacings before i ordered 4 koni yellow.i found out i already had cup packs(god if this is a cup god help the standard ones) so i called my insurance company and said i may not want to upgrade suspension i mite just get new oem dampers and springs ,they said if i dont change the springs or dampers from oem i have to pay £600 more cause when i took out the policy it was for modified cars.so i can put any mods on it i guess i wont have to pay extra, its backwards i knowits with adrain flux.

yes its crazy i no , been on phone for hours over it ,i think they are drinking paint thinner,they wont bugde on it.its either replace the standard suspension within 2 months or i have to pay double.i cant cancel cause they charge you. your welcome to contact them and ask.i can give you there number,let them explain to you.

I'm with flux too . It's ok mate , i'll take your word for it . As for tyres Uniroyal Rainsport 2's . About 80 quid a corner fitted , brilliant tyre , especially in the wet

 

[Steven103]

so ur sayin in a qualifiying section a 172cup with the same set up as a full fat 182 will be the same times? 172 cup say is 80 kg lighter,so that a 14 stone plus man,i think that would have an effect on the dampers and springs,if it has no effect like you say i guess we will be seeing obese f1 drivers next year.

Mmm nah... you've completely misunderstood what I'm trying to get at & judging by your F1 comment you're getting rather confused about why racing cars should have a low mass.


Go back to the beginning of the thread, you asked:

Q) Why don't the 172/182 have different springs, to account for the different vehicle mass.


The effect that the DIFFERENCE (7% using your numbers) in vehicle mass between a 172 cup and a 182 has on the spring/damper specified is negligible or pointless.

An example of it being neglibigle would be roll stiffness. The anti roll bar is so stiff in comparison to the springs that increasing the spring rate would make an unoticable difference to the overall roll stiffness. An example of it being pointless would be that it's a roadcar completely unoptimised for laptime & if you want to go quicker then that's why Renault will sell you the Cup or Trophy model! As a "by the way" virtually nothing regarding suspension is linear, the rear suspension of a clio for example has a motion ratio which isn't 1, what this means is that increasing the weight by 7% doesn't reduce ride height by a corresponding 7%.



Also if it does really handle as badly as you make out then before wasting several hundred pounds on new springs/dampers/coilovers/whatever then you really should be identifying the cause of the problem. It's probably just s*** tyres with no tread and underinflated or a failed bush/leaky rear damper. (Unless you KNOW the springs are damaged in some way of course)

Think I'm out tbh. My new year philosophy. If I have to read a sentence more than twice to understand it I can't be arsed. Good luck with whatever you do

Should have taken your advice :L

 

[klm182]

you mis understand i was saying if u put the same lowering springs on a 172 cup and on 182 ff due to the laws of physics it will be different(hookes law f= kx ) from what i remember for uni(i did mechancial engineering,)k =spring stiffness (contant) x is the displacement f is the force( f =ma )so in basic physics if u change the mass,u change the force acting on the spring,this will change the rate of displacement.am looking at it in from an engineering point of view. anyway i did test a cup a few weeks ago it wasnt all that better.just everyone raves about the handling,maybe cause my last sports car was a z4 mpack so am judging it on the way that handled.(yes i no its rear wheel drive)


ill sell you the Cup or Trophy model! As a "by the way" virtually nothing regarding suspension is linear, the rear suspension of a clio for example has a motion ratio which isn't 1, what this means is that increasing the weight by 7% doesn't reduce ride height by a corresponding 7%.



Also if it does really handle as badly as you make out then before wasting several hundred pounds on new springs/dampers/coilovers/whatever then you really should be identifying the cause of the problem. It's probably just s*** tyres with no tread and underinflated or a failed bush/leaky rear damper. (Unless you KNOW the springs are damaged in some way of course)





Should have taken your advice :L[/QUOTE]

 

[martynzs]

You went to university?

 

[Jakey92]

I know I am late on this but I have had the same experience with Flux. Tip for the future:- For example, go on Confused.com and get a comparison. Then go back and change the details. Put down that your car is modified via Alloy wheels (for example) and IME Flux have came up cheaper every time! But be aware that as you are on a modified policy if you attempt at swopping vehicles then the new car must be modified otherwise they wouldn't insure you. You only have to put down Interior Decorative changes if you want and you could just add a CS.net sticker!

P.S Suspension upgrades could also include a Whiteline rear anti roll bar. So if you wanted you could go OEM dampers, springs and top mounts but add one of these. Just incase you can't decide on what top mounts/springs/dampers or coilies you wanted

 

[Chip-mk1]

searching? been on here for 2 days,everyone is obsessed with drop and just say sportsline,i wanna no the goemetry effects of each spring types.and what spring rate is compatible with cup shocks,and is it worth getting camber bolts

NONE of them are perfectly matched to the rate of the cup dampers, they are all a compromise, if you want that perfectly designed then buy original cup springs and original cup dampers.

Or if you want lowered matched dampers and springs, buy them together as a kit designed to work together.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You went to university?

He did indeed mate, it was for a Rolf Harris concert at the student union.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Who is this guy?! Seriously??

What an ill mannered turd.

Indeed, its a shame he didnt buy a mini cooper instead and not end up on CS.

 

[Steven103]

you mis understand i was saying if u put the same lowering springs on a 172 cup and on 182 ff due to the laws of physics it will be different(hookes law f= kx ) from what i remember for uni(i did mechancial engineering,)k =spring stiffness (contant) x is the displacement f is the force( f =ma )so in basic physics if u change the mass,u change the force acting on the spring,this will change the rate of displacement.am looking at it in from an engineering point of view. anyway i did test a cup a few weeks ago it wasnt all that better.just everyone raves about the handling,maybe cause my last sports car was a z4 mpack so am judging it on the way that handled.(yes i no its rear wheel drive)

Now we are getting somewhere since we're using physics! I've had about 5 attempts at a concise reply...


About exactly what you said: "k" is sometimes reffered to as a spring constant. It is exactly that - a constant! Therefore a graph of force against displacement would be linear. Therefore the RATE of displacement is exactly the same for an extra force, regardless of the vehicle weight. (infact if you did a graph of f=kx+c (as in the graph of a straight line being y=mx+c) then c would be your preload and that's exactly what a heavier car would be - a preload. The spring still reacts at the same rate, it just has a preload on it and so is a bit shorter)

About other stuff: If you have "progressive rate" springs like sportlines/prolines (not saying other springs aren't progressive) then the rate of displacement WILL be different for a heavier car - but 1) only ever ever so slightly and 2) it also means you can't use f=kx. If you lowered the suspension (either by fitting lowering springs of the same spring rate or by adding weight e.g. a 172 vs a 182) then you effectively put the suspension into "bump." This means that the outer balljoint moves relative to the inner balljoint and the top mount. Because suspension is all lines and pivot points at funny angles in 3 planes, lowering your car changes virtually everything from CofG and roll centre to camber/castor/toe/kin pin inclination - so in that respect the entire geometry changes! However the amount it changes will be very very small. The wishbones will still have a "positive IC" but it'll be 50 meters away from the car instead of 48 meters and you'll still have toe out but it will be 5.53mm instead of 5.4mm. The "danger" or big differences would come if the stock suspension layout was very close to a "tipping point" where an extra 10mm of ride height starts to make the camber increase as the body rolls instead of decrease - and then making a small change to ride height, weight or spring rate might make a big handling difference. Race cars are good examples of this "tipping point" because they are designed to work in such a limited environment, think F1 where a small track temperature difference between morning practice and afternoon qualifying means one driver suddenly finds a lot of lap time.

 

[imprezaworks]

Omfg, hope you copied and pasted that lol

 

[Luke.]

Cooksports or Sportlines..

i have a set of Sportlines in my garage..

 

[Steven103]

Omfg, hope you copied and pasted that lol

That was my attempt at a concise reply lol...

 

[klm182]

thanks for your reply,i just got my new springs n dampers, and camber bolts,ill fit them and play around with goemetry see what fits for me.as people on here have different opinions on what set ups they like .guess its trail and error,if i dont like the springs just bin them. wish i never posted anything now wont be doing that again in a hurry.anyway thank you to you all.

Now we are getting somewhere since we're using physics! I've had about 5 attempts at a concise reply...


About exactly what you said: "k" is sometimes reffered to as a spring constant. It is exactly that - a constant! Therefore a graph of force against displacement would be linear. Therefore the RATE of displacement is exactly the same for an extra force, regardless of the vehicle weight. (infact if you did a graph of f=kx+c (as in the graph of a straight line being y=mx+c) then c would be your preload and that's exactly what a heavier car would be - a preload. The spring still reacts at the same rate, it just has a preload on it and so is a bit shorter)

About other stuff: If you have "progressive rate" springs like sportlines/prolines (not saying other springs aren't progressive) then the rate of displacement WILL be different for a heavier car - but 1) only ever ever so slightly and 2) it also means you can't use f=kx. If you lowered the suspension (either by fitting lowering springs of the same spring rate or by adding weight e.g. a 172 vs a 182) then you effectively put the suspension into "bump." This means that the outer balljoint moves relative to the inner balljoint and the top mount. Because suspension is all lines and pivot points at funny angles in 3 planes, lowering your car changes virtually everything from CofG and roll centre to camber/castor/toe/kin pin inclination - so in that respect the entire geometry changes! However the amount it changes will be very very small. The wishbones will still have a "positive IC" but it'll be 50 meters away from the car instead of 48 meters and you'll still have toe out but it will be 5.53mm instead of 5.4mm. The "danger" or big differences would come if the stock suspension layout was very close to a "tipping point" where an extra 10mm of ride height starts to make the camber increase as the body rolls instead of decrease - and then making a small change to ride height, weight or spring rate might make a big handling difference. Race cars are good examples of this "tipping point" because they are designed to work in such a limited environment, think F1 where a small track temperature difference between morning practice and afternoon qualifying means one driver suddenly finds a lot of lap time.

 

[martynzs]

HTH.

 

[klm182]

thanks,i no am looking it to it to deeply,just that some people dont realize what lowering does,thats why dampers fail,it is interesting(probley boring the entire cs members,anyway ill just fit the parts see how it goes.

thanks for your reply,i just got my new springs n dampers, and camber bolts,ill fit them and play around with goemetry see what fits for me.as people on here have different opinions on what set ups they like .guess its trail and error,if i dont like the springs just bin them. wish i never posted anything now wont be doing that again in a hurry.anyway thank you to you all.

 

[Steven103]

I find vehicle dynamics really interesting anyway, I think it's a shame there isn't much raw data out there for Clios just a lot of experience & driver feedback.


When you fit your springs & dampers make sure you have a really good look around. With the handling you describe it sounds as though something isn't right, have a look at balljoints, TREs, bushes, leaky dampers etc. Also, do let us know how the new spring/dampers feel!

 

[klm182]

just had new steering rack and track rod ends fitted,steering feels 10 times better, sharper,with new top mounts, springs, dampers,and good tyres should be alot better.just ordered new rear dics and pads(the front are new)so put new brake fiuld in and maybe stainless steel hoses,they will be sorted.then new gear/engine oil(had new sparks plugs, air filter) its had 2 new lambda senors. get wheels refurbished ,hopefully touchwood thats it for a while. a bottomless pit springs to mind.but once things are replaced they should last awhile..

I find vehicle dynamics really interesting anyway, I think it's a shame there isn't much raw data out there for Clios just a lot of experience & driver feedback.


When you fit your springs & dampers make sure you have a really good look around. With the handling you describe it sounds as though something isn't right, have a look at balljoints, TREs, bushes, leaky dampers etc. Also, do let us know how the new spring/dampers feel!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes freshening up the standard bits makes a difference on a tired old car.
Check the rack mounts too.

 

[klm182]

i asked renault dealership about the racks mounts they said they come with the new rack and track rod ends,

Yes freshening up the standard bits makes a difference on a tired old car.
Check the rack mounts too.

 

[MG cup]

Tell them to feck off.


S/Rack bush - 7701470760 - £27.22 x2

 

[klm182]

i ordered a new steering rack and asked for new mounts and track rod ends,renault said the rack comes with mounts and track rods.so i was well pleased

Tell them to feck off.


S/Rack bush - 7701470760 - £27.22 x2

 

[mattyRB 182]

i dont give a toss about drop i just wanna go round corners nailed to the road,and not like i have jelly springs now.i had a go of a 2002 old corsa 1.4 sri that was great like a go kart,that had standard suspension on.172 is not a 182 ff so the springs wont work the same will they as the 182 if heavier

Are joking my mate had a corsa 1.8sri that handled like a canal barage compared to172\182